<ul>
<li>by intellectual I mean writer, professor etc. The point isnt to say orientals have low IQs or anything like that.</li>
</ul>
<p>I just read this thread and I thought the argument was really interesting. </p>
<p>My relatively uneducated $0.02: Neither of you is wrong. Angryasianman should probably acknowledge that there is oppression of freedom of speech by the Chinese government -- I read an article a few years ago about how (presumably government-supported) search engines find and censor out key words, like the "June 4th," the date of the Tiananmen Square massacre, "Tibet independence," and even "democracy." See this</a> article. </p>
<p>Taiwan is less strict, yes, but not free of censorship: my ex-boyfriend's uncle, Shiau Tai-Fu, is a former government worker who was arrested late 2007 for publishing a book (which had been previously approved by the government during a three-month clearance review) about his experiences. The National Security Bureau claimed at the time of his arrest that Shiau had "given away government secrets" by providing insight as to some of the operational procedures used by the Taiwanese government. Seeing as the book had been approved during its review, many members of the media believe that the real reason the book was seized was the fact that Shiau had published an open letter to the NSB in February 2007 that criticized the management style of the bureau chief. There's a short article [url=<a href="http://www.chinapost.com.tw/print/132989.htm%5Dhere%5B/url">http://www.chinapost.com.tw/print/132989.htm]here[/url</a>], if anyone's interested, and a more in-depth one [url=<a href="http://www.taiwanheadlines.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=96573&CtNode=5%5Dhere%5B/url">http://www.taiwanheadlines.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=96573&CtNode=5]here[/url</a>]. </p>
<p>So, yes, I think that any objective viewer would admit that the Chinese and Taiwanese people are victims of censorship. This is perfectly fine in some people's opinions (likely, many citizens don't mind -- and is it because they are "brainwashed" or just because they have a different ideology from ours? We can't say for sure!) and a reason for criticism of the Chinese and Taiwanese governments to others. Like any government action, some people believe that this is founded while others consider it oppression. Let me stress again that this is not only a feature of these particular countries' governments! Look at America's Patriot Act, for example: some people consider it an invasion of privacy, while others consider it necessary in terms of security. Every country takes actions that some of its people consider oppressive; the only situation in which this would not be the case would be anarchy! It's a matter of to what extent one values individual freedoms over the "greater good," and there is no correct answer: everyone's opinion is different.</p>
<p>Liebenasuka, on the other hand, may have been a bit loose with his or her words by making statements about "the Chinese people" as a whole. Although s/he has firsthand experience and knows far more about life in China than most of the rest of us, generalizations are never true (ha ha): liebenasuka, your words would be better directed toward the Chinese government, or more specifically, the Communists whose ideology you oppose and whose past actions have harmed your family. Again, though, you may be criticizing too large a group: criticizing the Communist Chinese government as a whole is comparable to a Jewish person criticizing the German government because of Hitler's actions. Of course, if you object to the Communist ideology as a whole, that's a different matter; you of course have a right to criticize the current Chinese government for the things that about them in particular that you disagree with, just as one might criticize the Bush administration for the dumb things they've done. </p>
<p>Yeah, just my opinion. I think that the two of you could find a lot in common and a lot to agree about if you shared your opinions and experiences and tried to work around the disagreements. Wow, that sounded preachy hahaha. I just mean that you each have a lot of interesting perspectives to share, you know? And you kinda got caught up in arguing your differences instead of finding common ground in your heritage.</p>
<p>JexteLox, I agree with you that working hard now will pay off later. However, I don't agree with you on the fact that "good grades WILL get you farther in life". Not necessarily and not always... getting somewhere between 2000~2200 will probably get you as far as 2400 in terms of "life" (and 2200 is far more achievable than a 2400) And also, you don't have to study as much as those korean students to show that you care for you future. I don't have a 2400 and I may not always get straight A's...but I care for my future. As for having a social life, I don't think it is necessarily "easy"... I guess that depends on what kind of social life you want and who you want to establish yourself as in high school, college, etc...</p>
<p>This thread is still here? I would've expected it to long die, having posted this same link like 50 times...</p>
<p>Oh btw rofllmfao@ Poseur, I wonder who'll read the long passage...I jumped to the last page. Beyond me how this turned into a debate over China/Taiwan/Communism, apparently..</p>
<p>This needs a separate thread. In a separate forum...</p>
<p>^ On a separete site. Everyone, lets think of its URL....<em>pondering</em></p>
<p>Hahaha yeah... I read the thread, posted about China and Taiwan, and then was like "whoa, what forum am I in? SAT Prep? WHAT?"</p>
<p>No, I find it even more amusing that you actually made a lengthy post...</p>
<p>:rolleyes:</p>
<p>
[quote]
This needs a separate thread. In a separate forum...
[/quote]
Indeed...</p>
<p>^ in a separate dimension of the universe, millions of lightyears away, and millions of years away from our time</p>
<p>Stafoo. Making lengthy posts is what I'm all about.</p>
<p>That's an incredible program, but I can't imagine working that hard. Those students must be overwhelmingly dedicated.</p>
<p>lol im surprised a war broke out like this =/</p>
<p>but i kinda sensed lieb was a chinese himself lol...</p>
<p>one thing i'm happy though is that i came to the us when i was 10, and i choose not to care about anything in china, i think that's good lol i dont know much of chinese history either. dont get too emotional here guys lol...</p>
<p>Hey a neutral point chinese people are smart or at least work harder eh?</p>
<p>Liebenasuka, I agree with Poseur, you have been a bit loose your words by making statements about "the Chinese people" as a whole. So do watch out for your words. Do not criticize the Chinese government as a whole. The government now is different from the one before, though the Chinese government is still struggling with some problems which i believe will be solved or alleviate eventually in the future. I admit the Chinese government indeed has a very controversial censorship system. However, considering China's huge population and sprawling land, good governance with no global controversies is hard to achieve. As I lived in China for 15 years, I can see the government is improving its way of dealing with things. What has done cannot be undone. So do not blame all the past faults on the current government. In the case of censorship, the recent Sichuan earthquake shows a great improvement in this area. I went to Sichuan this summer. I believe what I have seen.</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, considering China's huge population and sprawling land, good governance with no global controversies is hard to achieve.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>True, but put global issues aside, something could definitely be done about the domestic corruption, and I don't see them doing it. You didn't like how I used the word illiterate to describe the various people who are in power, but you better believe it is the truth. People who deserved those positions wait for years, and some crappy relative of a powerful figure, who knows nothing about whatever field he's in suddenly puts his ass on the chair, and people with talents have no choice but to move abroad, like my parents did. The thing is, without connections, you can't achieve anything in China, no matter how talented or hardworking you are.
[quote]
What has done cannot be undone. So do not blame all the past faults on the current government.
[/quote]
I wasn't blaming the destruction of my family on the current government. I was just furious at the fact that the current government fooled me by giving me modified, one sided informations about world issues, making me look retarted when I first came to America.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In the case of censorship, the recent Sichuan earthquake shows a great improvement in this area. I went to Sichuan this summer. I believe what I have seen.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I hate to agree, but I kind of have to. I've been looking at the news about the Earthquake, and I did see a great improvement. They did a way better job than before. Except that people were slinging mud at singers and movie stars who "didn't donate enough money". However it was nothing crucial, just a funny sight to see. lol</p>
<p>liebenasuka: "I was just furious at the fact that the current government fooled me by giving me modified, one sided informations about world issues, making me look retarted when I first came to America."</p>
<p>The most likely reason you looked retarded is because you are . . . well . . . retarded. You blame it on Chinese government. Guess what, you have lived in the United States for a substantial amount of time, and yet you still look retarded if one judges you on the basis of your inane posts. So, for the sake on consistency, it is time for you to attempt to blame American government and American people for your inanity.</p>
<p>I'm korean myself but looking at these facts make me puke. These kids are trained to excel in standarized tests from extremely young ages.
Seriously, what these people don't understand is that admission is not what college is all about. These top korean schools even send hundreds of students to volunteer abroad (of course, for the college app's sakes) every year. Almost all these kids are just nothing more than factory-created testing machines.</p>
<p>...uhh just NO.</p>
<p>"Almost all these kids are just nothing more than factory-created testing machines."</p>
<p>YEEE!!</p>
<p>"I'm korean myself but looking at these facts make me puke."</p>
<p>Elite prep schools are nothing more than the reflection of the American values and the American way of life. The mainstream urban American understanding of "success", which, by the way, is being spread all over the world destroying indigenous cultures as we speak, is the amount of money in your bank account. The standard of "success", to which many Americans, including many posters on this board, aspire, is elite school, then elite high school, then elite Harvard, then an elite job at elite Goldman Sachs, then wealthy retirement, followed by an ephemeric period of tourism over the countries once ravaged by the American military, and eventually an untimely death on the Independence Day. Whether a person who follows this path is a "successful" person or an efficient money-making machine is up to you to decide. But please please please do not blame Koreans. They are merely parroting your own values back at you.</p>
<p>l84ad8, very well said.</p>