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Has anyone here wondered what plainsman would do if her daughter brought home a boyfriend from NJ?
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<p>God forbid! Heaven help her if she does! :eek:</p>
<p>I would have thought Plainsman would be more tolerant of those who have a different background or race or religion or whatever. If I have it right, Plainsman is an African American and his spouse is not. He brought his lovely wife home to his family. She was different from them. I hope Plainsman can see that not wanting his D to go to college with kids who come from NJ goes against what he himself has hoped others would tolerate about him and his relationships. </p>
<p>Back to Lehigh. It is not the most diverse school. If diversity is important to Plainsman, and I can certainly see why it would be, then the colleges chosen should meet that criteria. No need to apply to Lehigh even if it is a great school. That said, it should be up to the D. If Plainsman points out to D that Lehigh is not that diverse or that racial incidents have happened on campus, and his D is not phased, she is the one who has to attend. And so the decision should be hers.</p>
<p>This is reminding me of another thread where a parent said he would not, never ever pay for his child to attend a Catholic college.<br>
Personaly, I disagree with this as my assistance in helping my children attain a college degree is my GIFT to them. Given freely to the best of my financial ability. I let them pick and take ownership of their decision. Transferring is not the worst thing in the world.</p>
<p>However, I respect that some parents may feel differently. If the OP feels that he could not, would not ever write a check to Lehigh, then he needs to have this conversation with his daughter. Now.</p>
<p>Thank you for your perspectives. I mean that sincerely, even to the folks who took the time to lambaste me. I meant no offense to native New Jerseyans. I certainly didn't mean to condemn everybody who is from New Jersey. I grew up in a racially integrated neighborhood, and over the years enjoyed many playmates and buddies (and girlfriends) who were white. They were Irish, Italian, Polish, Jewish, you name it. I loved them all (the girls literally). I like to think I am not prejudiced by race. But my experiences, again, some were horrific, growing up in New Jersey are REAL (see #143 for a short list of just a few). Those things actually happened to me. To think someone who experienced those things could proceed through the rest of his life without some bitterness is to be unrealistic. What causes me to have a hangup about New Jersey in particular is the absence of any of those same kinds of experiences in the eight other states and regions of the country in which I've lived. They only happened in New Jersey, so what am I to think? I've lived all over the place (except the West Coast), even briefly in the south, and New Jersey is the only nightmare on my synapse. Was it just coincidence? With the NJ cops it is not a coincidence. Their reputation is WELL-DOCUMENTED. Maybe it was just a coincidence with the civilians. I don't know. I'm not an evil or paranoid person. Those were my real experiences. I suppose it could be argued that I was an amazingly unlucky black guy growing up in NJ. Maybe.</p>
<p>Finally, I wouldn't have so much angst about my D's pending decision (she still professes love for Lehigh) if it wasn't for my own real life experiences. Those of you who did not grow up black males in New Jersey and did not have those experiences are justified in telling me not to paint every person in New Jersey with a broad brush, but you are wrong to assert or imply that I'm off my rocker.</p>
<p>Lehigh is an excellent university. My D would receive a first-rate education at Lehigh, if she is admitted and decides to attend. But she's my baby girl. I love her and only want to protect her from going through what I did, from suffering the same ugly experiences. I want to protect her from the indignities, the pain that still stings my soul today. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I didn't bring her into this world to see her get hurt.</p>
<p>Plainsman,
My guess is that many black men had the same experience in other states in the same time period as you. Growing up in lower Delaware I know there was a lot of prejudice in the late 60's and early seventies when I was going through school. Heck, the school that I attended for middle school was only integrated ten or fifteen years before I got there. But, it's certainly not that way now and if you visit NOW, it wouldn't occur to you how bad it was then.</p>
<p>My Mom was a Girl Scout leader of a troop and had an assistant leader that was black and our troop was the first integrated one in the town. Quite a few people were unhappy about that and this was just little girls. </p>
<p>My point is that there just aren't that many african-american guys that post on this forum so you are not getting any of them saying that the same thing happened to them in their states when they were growing up.</p>
<p>No, I don't think Plainsman is that off in his experience. Even today in NJ, cops hold a very strong line between Newark and Maplewood. Short Hills cops regularly make it very unpleasant for blacks to come into town. I do not live in SH, but a few months a go someone wrote to my town's newspaper of her treatment when she went through my town. She was stopped, given a ticket and basically harassed. She was white, but was driving the type of car most people in my town wouldn't be driving. I am Asian and have lived in the tri-state area with very little problem. I have experienced more discrimination in the midwest and some other New England states. I understand OP's pain and feeling about NJ, I still have a certain feeling about mid west, and indirectly maybe that's why my older daughter never looked at U. Chicago, Michigan or NWU, when they are very all very fine schools.</p>
<p>I think if the atmosphere at Lehigh has too much racial tension or there is not enough diversity there, then you may have a valid concern. But none of that is due to that some students who attend are from NJ. I think you are side tracking the concern with this prejudice that kids from NJ are a problem. I completely understand that you are coming from having endured racial prejudice a long time ago and that it took place in NJ. That doesn't mean that all current college students from NJ are going to be a problem in this way. But if you have a problem with what is going on at Lehigh and talk to students of color there to ascertain the vibe, perhaps the setting is not ideal for your daughter. And you can make her aware of anything you have found out if you keep it objective and not bring up those "rotten kids from NJ!" In the end, your D needs to decide what college setting and atmosphere is what SHE wants as she is going to go there. She should talk to many current students and ask these sorts of questions. If it were me, I'd leave it up to your D but also share your concerns and questions and have a discussion or agree to go visit again and get more information. But if you feel THIS strongly that you don't want her to go to that school, better make that clear BEFORE she applies because once she applies and gets in, it is too late to pull that plug, in my opinion. I truly think it is your D's decision but if you are leaning to not allowing her to go to Lehigh, deal with it NOW. I suggest you keep the talk to Lehigh and not "all kids from NJ" as she is going to encounter many kids from NJ at any selective college in the Northeast.</p>
<p>Oldfort, I can see Plainsman not wanting to LIVE in NJ. I can even see if he discourages his D from going to college IN NJ. But I can't see the issue of going to a college that happens to have some students FROM NJ. The cop thing is not related to going to college where some students happened to grow up in NJ. Putting NJ aside here, I CAN see if he has reservations about a particular college and lack of diversity or tolerance.</p>
<p>While hudsonvalley51 (post #157) compiles his/her list, I found some data that might serve as a baseline for monitoring recent changes. A couple of years ago interesteddad posted the data regarding populations of students of color at leading schools in the year 2000. Lehigh in 2000 scored very low in this regard.</p>
<p>Because it appears that Lehigh is anomalously low in minority student representation for a college of its ranking, I have become perplexed. Similar institutions (size, location, resources, mission) have achieved more.</p>
<p>For those who are parents of those attending Lehigh, I am curious about your opinions regarding the value of diversity in an undergraduate education. To the first approximation I think your opinions would correlate with the opinions of the students there.</p>
<p>Is diversity worthy of significant institutional change, important to strive for (preferential scholarships, preferential recruitment, etc.) or is it irrelevant or just nice-to-have? Would you object to or support (in the form of donations) initiatives in the direction of increasing diversity</p>
<p>The Lehigh of tomorrow may or may not be different than it is today. For prospective students an overnight would provide some information, but being alert to issues of concern and “objectively” appraising these situations would make the decisions of prospective students. If the parents do not care or would not actively support change, I suspect their children would think similarly (to the first approximation) and institutional change will be a long way off.</p>
<p>"I suggest you keep the talk to Lehigh and not "all kids from NJ" as she is going to encounter many kids from NJ at any selective college in the Northeast."</p>
<p>She'll encounter many kids from NJ at any selective college anywhere, really (though agreed, more so in the Northeast).</p>
<p>I agree there are NJ kids at colleges all over the country. As many kids go to college within a certain radius of where they live, I assume there are more NJ kids at colleges in the Northeastern corridor of the US. But the reason I mentioned it is because the OP's D supposedly is only applying (or only allowed to apply?) to schools that are not too far away from home and so I am assuming the D's college list (which I think he posted at one point) are all schools in the Northeast, where many NJ students will also be attending.</p>
<p>Rathering than avoiding students from NJ (hard for me to still take that notion!!), I think the focus should be on finding schools that are diverse and where there is an atmosphere of tolerance, if this matters to the OP's D.</p>
<p>Nice to see the rally against the maligning of children from NJ. I don't want to see Lehigh vilified either. </p>
<p>Remember lots of other institutions have had their share of incidents, too, as have been cited earlier in this thread. Plus, there's plenty of evidence of racial harmony at Lehigh that hasn't been presented. Check out yesterday's article from Plainsman's paper: Lehigh</a> duo no longer divided -- themorningcall.com</p>
<p>goldblot's numbers are old; Lehigh's class of 2012 is 28% domestic students of color(22)&international(6) and 65% white. Not bad given the challenges facing similar colleges. Progress since 2000? YES. More work to be done? ABSOLUTELY. </p>
<p>All elite colleges are working hard to increase diversity on campus, Lehigh included. Lehigh's administration and the majority of students have spoken strongly on the subject. The numbers show actions have been backing up the words.</p>
<p>NJ is one of the states that has more students than available places in its colleges. Also, a lot of people don't like its state colleges much. Vast numbers of NJ students go out of state, sometimes to places a lot farther away than Lehigh. </p>
<p>But I don't think that people at those schools consider the NJ students' presence to be a problem, in terms of diversity or anything else.</p>
<p>[Full disclosure: I lived in NJ for 19 years. It was not a bad experience, and I didn't notice any greater tendency toward bigotry than in any other place that I've lived.]</p>
<p>In the pie chart, it shows Lehigh's minority representation as 13% and international at 3%.</p>
<p>Clearly the admissions committee has recruited a class that is substantially different than those that preceded it. My hope is that this trend continues and that the resultant diversity makes Lehigh a more vibrant and harmonious place.</p>
<p>why all the NJ hate? There is racism in every state its ridiculous to single out NJ...I live in PA very close to NJ and have spent much time in NJ in my lifetime. I never saw racism as a problem there more so than anywhere else...If someone has a problem with Lehigh there is a simple solution..Just dont have your child go there..its that simple...I wonder if a white child wanted to go to a historically black college..would there be racism in that instance? probably yet nobody ever wants to discuss that...</p>