<p>The difference in cost is about $100,000 give or take, over the four years needed to complete a bachelor's. The question then is will the investment of $100,000 provide a positive or negative return over a 40 year career? Ignoring time value of money, you need to make an incremental $5K per year to break even. </p>
<p>I work with two people who attended both a flagship state U (a well regarded top 50 one) and an ivy. Both said that access to internships and opportunities were far greater at the ivy. They both had opportunities to interview with companies that did not recruit at their state school. </p>
<p>I agree with Marian-I think that in most cases it IS worth the extra cost to attend an elite school, but I question the economic value of a lower ranked private school over a top 100 state school. </p>
<p>I want to stress that I'm only comparing the economics here--"fit" doesn't enter into it--as with all economics arguments, you have to focus on one or two variables and ignore the stuff you can't quantify!</p>
<p>A lot of the best corporate/university partnershipos are found at the public Us. THe business community wants to keep legislators happy & on their side. They can earn a great deal of good will by partnering at the state flagship & offering inernships. It's also a terrific way to find talent. Everybody wins.</p>
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I want to stress that I'm only comparing the economics here--"fit" doesn't enter into it--as with all economics arguments, you have to focus on one or two variables and ignore the stuff you can't quantify!
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<p>But why do worth or value have to be defined only in economic terms? I own many things that I value far more than more expensive stuff because they were given to me by someone whom I hold very dear. Was it money thrown away when the Princeton grad my S had as an student teacher decided to go into high school teaching instead of law? </p>
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I question the economic value of a lower ranked private school over a top 100 state school.
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So do I, but not on account of ranking. A lot of private schools, as I've argue earlier in this thread, are just not comparable in quality to the better public unis--even if we are not taking more individual factors such as "fit" into account.</p>
<p>I'm one of those paying for a top college. Quite happily, S earned an upperclass merit award. He's also had well-paying internship. He's happy, I'm happy. Like Weenie said, I think the world of his college and the education and experiences he's getting.
Had a conversation with a friend who is paying for an average small, private school nearby. He's more social and happier than he's ever been. She felt he'd be lost in state U. She's just as thrilled with their family's decision as I am with my choice.</p>
As are stereotypes about many elite privates, including the stereotypes of all kids wearing Abercrombie & Fitch. But an "element" of truth doesn't tell the whole story.</p>
<p>If you look at the "What's the one thing wrong with your kid's college?" thread, you will find that there are plenty of public-school type problems listed for elite private schools. There are complaints of poor advising at Columbia, unsatisfactory housing at Brown, etc. But parents are happy to pay ~$50K a year for their kid to live in some tiny, run-down dorm room at Brown, or navigate their own way through Columbia. Yet these are precisely the sort of issues that are the first to be raised whenever anyone is citing reasons to prefer the private education over public. </p>
<p>Again, I don't doubt that the private schools in general offer somewhat better collegiate environments -- for what you are paying, you ought to get a few perks. The question isn't whether they are worth more, the question is how much more? I personally don't think the "how much" would equate to a figure that puts the parents' future financial security in jeopardy, which is really what it comes down to.</p>
<p>And on that last sentence, I concur with you completely, Calmom.</p>
<p>But if the financial security of the parents is not in jeopardy, and it is their choice to send child to private college, vs. state U, I don't think one should begrudge them that either.</p>
<p>"But why do worth or value have to be defined only in economic terms?"
I too agree that it's helpful to look at a broader picture when defining value. But the bottom line is that most folks have to (or at least should) pay attention to $ when making a college choice. We have friends who "set for life" financially - they're sending each of thier kids to expensive private schools (no merit aid). They won't even look at publics. Why should they? Sounds OK to me.
What bothers me are the people who blindly follow the "private is better" belief and pay through the nose regardless of the impact on their financial future. We are very prestige oriented here in the NE and I think many parents would view themselves as failures if they sent thier kids to the state flagship. Sad.</p>
<p>No all NE public unis have the same feel or reputation. For example, a student posted that admission into UVM is getting harder for VT residents because UVM is flooded with applicants from MA. I know some of S's friends who went to UVM. Others have gone to McGill because of the lower cost. </p>
<p>I totally agree that one should not jeopardize one's financial future for the sake of funding children's private education. But often, the question is asked purely in terms of economic returns, without taking into consideration issues of fit (socially or academically) or whether the family can afford it. We consciously did not steer our kids towards schools where they were sure to get merit aid. It was an ethical decision on our part (other families need merit aid to make a particular work for their child) but it sure was not an economically driven one.</p>
<p>FWIW: A very bright, academically gifted girl from our high school (PA) chose UMass Amherst a couple of years ago to study saxophone with a highly regarded teacher there. I heard she's very happy.</p>
<p>I agree with Marite that no one should jeopardize their financial future to pay for a child to attend a private college. But, although many people do struggle to make ends meet, there are also many families who have similar incomes to my husband's and mine who make different choices than we do regarding how to spend their money. In the suburb where I live, many of the homes are obviously much larger and several times more expensive than is necessary for a basic living space. Same with cars - does one purchase a basic Toyota Corolla or a luxurious Lexus? My husband and I chose to buy a home which was not anywhere near the maximum price or mortgage we qualified for and to buy inexpensive cars and drive them until they die. Also, some people choose to send their kids to private schools for K-12 or for 9-12, while we sent our kids to public schools, and told them that if they did their best and took advantage of the opportunities available to them, they would not be at a disadvantage when they applied to college. Our state university is a good one, but was not the school that was the best choice for either of my kids. Because we made saving for college a priority, we were fortunately able to pay for their private college expenses. Also, like Marite, the question of whether our children would earn more money by attending a private college did not enter our line of thinking, but rather the education and overall experience they would get.</p>
<p>"the public colleges are based on a LACK of similarity--they're for everybody of every type of behavior and belief, whereas the private colleges have a sort of unspoken "You come here, you're buying off on THIS set of standards."
Hmmm... I read on another board that Williams is having significant problem with students spreading feces on walls (just one of many things they are doing with this particular substance). I wonder if this is part of their unique set of standards. Not to bash privates...but let's be fair here. There's bad behavior everywhere. Putting it all on the public school students sounds a bit elitist to me.<br>
And Mother of Two - maybe it's just different around here, but the parents with the big houses and fancy cars are the same ones sending their kids to the fancy private schools. These folks care about prestige and going to our state U is a no-no. They choose privates even if it means going into heavy debt. And why do some many folks automatically assume that a public is a bad fit? I agree that some kids do better in small settings, but some of these kids choose other big schools just to get out of state. That's where the 100k difference doesn't make sense to me (unless you're dealing with the "money is no object" folks).</p>
<p>Toneranger - I think we both live in the same state, from your previous posts, and I agree that our state university is an excellent one. Many of the top students from our high school go to the state university and love it there. The people I know who live in the more expensive homes and have the more expensive cars are not necessarily the people who are the most "education oriented". Their kids seem to go to wide variety of colleges, many of which are not very selective or considered to be "prestigious". The students attending the more selective private colleges from our high school are not necessarily the ones whose families live the most wealthy lifestyle. At least this has been my observation.</p>
<p>Some time ago, posters wrote about flagship universities where local affluent families send their children as a matter of tradition rather than as a cost-saving measure. U of Alabama was one of those cited. I would assume UNC, UVA, the UC system, UT-Austin would make the list. What about others?</p>
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it is their choice to send child to private college, vs. state U, I don't think one should begrudge them that either.
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I don't begrudge them that -- I just wish they could explain their choices without disparaging the state universities or the students who attend them. Of course state universities have a variety of problems related to budgeting issues or their large size, which certainly is something to be considered in choosing a college. But as noted, private colleges are far from perfect -- there just is another set of positives and negatives. </p>
<p>What is a negative for one person might not be a negative for others -- for example, many students are happier with a large lecture format than small seminars, and students with unusual interests may find that the course offerings are more extensive for them at a large university.</p>
<p>Alabama, Ole Miss.... One of my cousin's Exeter classmates attended the University of Oklahoma because it was a multi-generation family school and he wanted to go into the "family business" (oil).</p>
<p><...local affluent families send their children as a matter of tradition...></p>
<p>Definitely PSU, at least in our area. In fact, my son was just telling us about the number of wealthy students there the other day. I believe it has the largest alumni association in the country, which tells me that alumni would be very interested in carrying on the tradition of attendance there; I know many, many families who have done this. In addition, many of our high school's brightest students go to Penn State, particularly to study engineering. Unlike toneranger's area of PA, in our area attendence at Penn State Main (as we call it here) even carries a measure of prestige.</p>
<p>calmom - Agree with your sentiment on those who criticize state schools. Our son chose our very good state school over a few well-regarded privates (due to a strong program in his field and honors opportunities). He loves the big school atmosphere (including the football) and he has a good mix of large and small classes. Since he got scholarship money on top of already low tution, we're saving $ for him for grad school. We're very proud of him - but we get poor vibes (not our imagination) from many of the "prestige oriented" private school parents in our area. Not sure if they think we're cheap or stupid - but they certainly don't understand why a top student with other choices would go this route. But our son is happy. And, although we get annoyed with the treatment we sometimes get, we're happy too. No, public schools are not perfect - but they are a perfectly rational choice for some. Most on this board seem to have this balanced view.</p>