<p>Not a shred of actual experience here. My kid is more or less the opposite of the OP's ;).</p>
<p>But I sure wouldn't bet against this kid getting lab time at 17, and without matriculating. No, I wouldn't. </p>
<p>Highly unlikely? Sure. But will he be the one to defeat the odds? Well, like I said, I wouldn't bet against it.</p>
<p>If I were his mom, I'd be wanting him to apply to college as well. But I guess I'm too conventional that way.</p>
<p>I'd let him go for it; see if he'll put in some apps in case he changes his mind. But if he doesn't get the lab work and doesn't apply to college, he'll be fine after a year off. Lesser kids have done fine that way.</p>
<p>Great story and I hope to hear more about his saga as it unfolds.</p>
<p>Oh my. Just love this kid without even meeting him. It's good to know there are some brilliant ones out there who aren't spending four sleep-deprived years of clawing to the top of their hs gpa ranking. </p>
<p>First of all, the National AP Scholar is not -- as someone put it on this thread -- worthless. It is arguably his most valuable asset. There were only about 600 National AP Scholars in the graduating hs class of 2008. That makes it rare and that makes it command attention from those reading his applications. </p>
<p>Apply to University of Chicago. He is obviously a very fine writer and profound thinker. That is a school that reads applications carefully and will pluck out the jewel from the haystack.</p>
<p>Finally, independent thinker that he obviously is, he really needs to submit to some external coaching on his essays. He has a bit of explaining to do on the gpa. At least one of his essays needs to address that -- subtly, not in a crude way. Also, can you enlist the support of his GC? Be frank about the gpa issue but make sure the GC understands your son's potential. He really could be viable at the top schools if he presents himself carefully. Try to get the GC to see a personal stake in your son's success in his applications.</p>
<p>Very best of luck. The school he attends undergrad really doesn't write his fate. He carries his intrinsic talent with him wherever he goes.</p>
<p>It's my "guess"--and it's just that, a guess--that colleges will heavily discount those Bs if there are 5s on APs and high SAT II scores. </p>
<p>If it makes sense, have him consider applying to a school early, particularly if it's an ED school. Very high scoring kids whose scores can be locked in during the ED round are more tempting to colleges. (See Montauk's book--title is something like "How to Get Into Top Colleges," particularly the chapter on early decision. ) I think colleges are more likely to take a gamble on a kid like this if they know he is actually going to enroll if admitted.</p>
<p>"Apply to University of Chicago. He is obviously a very fine writer and profound thinker. That is a school that reads applications carefully and will pluck out the jewel from the haystack."
I TOTALLY agree with mammall! This kids abilities/ interests/ accomplishments SCREAM U of C! I think he will love the Chicago Essay prompts- they are quirky and different from any other college and do a great job of teasing out the kids who would love the "think different", highly intellectual nature of Chicago. I would have him visit in Oct. and if he loves it apply EA . However, he should ALSO apply to Caltech/ MIT as well if he is seriously interested in doing graduate level research as early as possible. I think it would be VERY unwise for him to delay applying to colleges . It will be MUCH harder for him to get recommendations from his past teachers / college counselor if they haven't had seen him for a long time. If he doesn't want to go right off to college, you should know that many colleges will allow accepted students to defer their matriculation for a year or 2 . U of C is one that allows deferrals, Harvard is another, and I know there are many more out there.</p>
<p>"I was surprised no one commented on his hope of getting lab time at a university at the age of 17 without being an actual student there (or anywhere)-- Does this really happen? I thought it was highly, highly unlikely"
I also think it would be unlikely, as during the school year colleges will always give preference to current students from their own college. In the summer time it is much more likely.</p>
<p>Regarding lab time at a college. For insurance reasons they can't let him be in the lab- I found this out when I wanted to volunteer at a local U as a middle aged qualified adult, you need to be a student or an employee... I suggest that you take him to visit one or more nearby colleges/U's this fall and investigate the situation he desires. Talking to real professors should open up his eyes as to what he needs to learn to be able to function in a lab. Flagship state U honors programs are full of brilliant students who could do well at the elite schools. Perfect test scores, many AP's and a few B's... there is a surplus of top students relative to the positions available at HYP et al. He needs to be jumpstarted in doing college applications, talking to professors may help him understand the road needed to travel to do the lab research. Students can arrange to work in a lab many places, he needs to take the steps to become a student.</p>
<p>Lab time in college for 17 year old?
My son did a study in middle school for a science fair and met with someone in the lab at out local SUNY university. She gave him the equipment (petri dishes, etc) and discussed with him how to get the samples. He/we met again to culture them. Again to go over the results. We were right in the lab. very cool. Maybe your son could be involved. Can't hurt to ask.</p>
<p>Looking for colleges... Michigan State Univ. offers the top students paid research in any dept of their choosing starting freshmen year. (offered to my son with other perks but he went elsewhere.) Your son may thrive there. I think in his personal essay he should address some of the issues you are concerned about. Call and follow up. They need to see what he is really all about!!!</p>
<p>You may want to post a thread asking for schools where freshmen do research to find out more options.</p>
<p>Oh don't worry at all. HS can be completely LAME-O for kids like this. Undergrad will be entirely a different story and his way of being will be greatly valued at the next level. </p>
<p>I am not a huge fan of undergraduate education-- I'm of the camp 'its only undergrad'. Most will do just fine. And I will bet you a million bucks he won't just get a UG degree and so it doesn't matter. Graduate school is where it will matter and he sure doesn't need Ivy League or even top 20 to get into a great grad school.</p>
<p>Fendrock-- It isn't that I have specific "wants" for him-- rather, I want him to not lock himself out of whatever he eventually wants to do by making poor choices now..... I wouldn't mind him having lab time-- I just didn't think it was realistic, with lab time limited and so many actual students and professors wanting to use those facilities as well. To be clear, he is not interested in working in a lab doing whatever, he has a specific project that he wants to work on and control. I tend to believe that a couple of years of solid university level science training would help him achieve better results. He is a tad stubborn.</p>
<p>Thanks all for the comments-- DS is wonderful/exasperating, thoughtful/stubborn, wise/niave, and all those other things that kids are at 16 (he will be 17 at the end of October and graduate HS next May). I am glad to her that at least a few other parents here have this same kind of lovable but difficult to guide offspring.</p>
<p>I wanted to add: I'd take your kind of kid any day into my lab over the straight A 'good student'. I think we all would. I don't care how well a student can jump through hoops and cross their t's. Creative, passionate, curious, brilliant minds are what we want and some of the most OCDish straight A students are not at all grad school material.</p>
<p>Oh my, Mammal-- he would not be willing to have his essays "coached", I don't think. He might consent to meeting with a counselor and hearing what they think an essay should convey-- but currently, he is thinking that he would rather not attend college next year at all. We are fine with that as long as he is productive (and it would put on track to be the same age as the other freshmen in 2010).</p>
<p>Unfortunately, his high school counselors are spread very thin-- there is no time for trying to guide a kid toward a particular school. We are on our own for researching schools and completing applications. His counselor does think very highly of him (she was his go between for his online AP courses). He is, I am pretty sure, the only AP National Scholar his school has ever had (they only offer 3 ap classes on site).</p>
<p>" currently, he is thinking that he would rather not attend college next year at all."
sorry to be redundant but just wanted to make sure he is aware that he CAN defer starting college after he has been accepted at colleges that allow deferrals. [Admissions websites are usually very clear about their deferral policies]</p>
<p>Good point-- I should emphasize that to him-- I have brought it up, but probably not enough. On a related point-- his schedule this year is a little lighter (7 classes, 6 IB and one 9th grade health class that he has put off but must have to graduate). If his grades significantly improve in his senior year -- to say a 4.0 from the 3.2 he had in his junior year, would that improve his chances of being accepted at more selective colleges or is it all about the junior year?<br>
To provide a little more background-- he homeschooled for 9th grade (actually, really self schooled) studying physics, US history, french, Algebra 2, guitar, literature (taking AP Physics and US history tests)<br>
Sophmore year he enrolled in high school and took IB precal, AP world history, the remainder honors courses and ended the year with a 3.9.</p>
<p>I was the author of the Brilliant/Who Gives A Crap line, although it applies in a meaningfully different way to my kid (an A+/C+ type, depending on the subject matter). Anyway, I have the same reaction as mammall and menloparkmom: One of the reasons the University of Chicago exists in the world is so that kids like this have a place to go. That's not the only kind of student they have there (I have two children there, one of whom is a completely diligent goody-goody). But he certainly wouldn't be the only one if he went there.</p>
<p>And, more importantly, if the TASP application intrigued him enough to write the essays, the University of Chicago Uncommon Application (now the Uncommon Supplement) may catch his imagination, too. Check out the discussion of this year's unusual (as usual) essay prompts in the University of Chicago forum. And get him on their mailing list. They do a really good job of sending intellectually engaging soft-sell recruitment materials to students.</p>
<p>One final thought: Don't panic, and don't sell him short. As you describe your son, he is just the kind of impassioned diamond-in-the-rough that makes admissions staff get all weak-kneed and starry-eyed. And as others have noted, TASP is just about as competitive as any college in the country. If he was able to get through that process, he should be able to fill out some applications, and if he fills out some applications he is probably going to have most of them accepted. Finally, when he actually goes to college, he may well find that the additional stimulation, presence of real peers, and ability to focus on what he likes changes his whole attitude about the classroom.</p>
<p>Hi all! In a shocking surprise, ds has been nominated by his school as a Jeffersonian Scholar. We are very pleased for him, but wonder if his gpa will knock him out of the running immediately.
Oh, I have not had much success in persuading him to apply to colleges, though I have nagged him into turning in enough homework to get mostly A's on the first reporting period.
I have started leaving mail from the University of Chicago strategically scattered around the living room and kitchen.
Thank all of you for the thoughtful and reassuring comments in this thread. Once or twice, when I was eeling particularly frustrated with him, I reread the posts and felt much better.</p>
<p>if he really doesnt care about grades etc. you could also look at new college of florida. They dont have grades, they have evaluations. My understanding (although i have only breifly reviewed their website) is that they are an honors college in Florida. (sarasota) They have a very high percentage of students that go on to grad school. It is listed in Loren Pope's book and also in every book re best colleges. They offer good scholarships but are also considered a best buy as their tuition is "relatively" low.</p>
<p>New</a> College of Florida evaluations
Contracts
At New College we believe that a student’s progress should be based on demonstrated competence and real mastery rather than the accumulation of credit hours and letter grades (See Principle 3 of the Four Principles!). In support of this ideal, we developed the contract system. Every semester you meet with your faculty advisor to discuss your goals, choose your classes, and plan your academic and co-curricular activities. You also establish a criterion against which your success that semester will be measured. “Do well in all courses,” “satisfy the requirements of four out of five courses,” or “complete my senior thesis” are some common criteria for successful certification of the contract. </p>
<p>Check out Brown University! It is Ivy League and very competitive, but its Open Curriculum might be appealing to this very interesting young man. Students at Brown can follow their hearts and minds. There are no requirements, except for those related to majors, and students can take any or all classes Pas/Fail because the school trusts its students and encourages exploration beyond expectation. It's a wonderful place.</p>
<p>Stumble onto honors is right. Sounds very familiar. To second JHS, never saw S as excited and focused as when doing the Uncommon Application essays for UChicago.</p>
<p>A brilliant kid who is creative often puts together a brilliant application. When and if he puts his mind to it. That is the problem for many kids, brilliant or otherwise. They give too short of a shrift to anything that does not catch their attention and interest. Lack of discipline for doing things they do not want to do is a universal problem for kids who are mentally challenged as well as for kids who are brilliant. </p>
<p>I tend to stay away from that adjective because it is too often overused by parents in describing their kids. It is often not an important issue either. I have seen brilliance in kids who are retarded mentally, have learning difficulties, have Asperburgers, psychiatric problems. It's a matter of directing the brilliance, and maintaining it that is the big problem.</p>