<p>Some of the kids who are “brilliant but don’t care about grades” may be getting into a “fixed mindset”. Check out the work of Carol Deweck:</p>
<p>[Carol</a> Dweck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Dweck]Carol”>Carol Dweck - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>S also hated the NMF essay. Drivel and dreck. It was the most difficult essay he had to write last year.</p>
<p>I think “doesn’t give a crap” is a bit strong. He gets what many would consider good grades. They just don’t match his potential. IMHO, I would be concerned that he get into the “right” school rather than the “best” school. He might be better off in a LAC, for example, where students have the possibility (not all LACs do this) to design their own curriculum somewhat (or perhaps a special minor) or do lots of independent study courses/internships where he can pursue his unusual but challenging interests. He seems like the kind of kid who will not flourish with dozens of required courses with lots of rote learning and hundreds of other kids in a class. </p>
<p>I would not obsess about the GPA/grades (as long as they are As & Bs) but instead focus on documenting all the exceptional if quirky projects he works on, getting recommendations that reflect his personality, and I bet he will write one of those app essays that are handed down through generations in the admissions office of whatever university he chooses. I would bet that most adcoms at the kinds of universities that would challenge him will read between the lines of the super test scores / okay grades / deep and diverse interests outside the classroom to see that he is an original thinker and the kind of student they would love to have–not cookie cutter valedictorians (although they are great, too). Think how many folks on cc are worrying about how to make their top performing child stand out in a pool where everyone has a similar GPA & test scores.</p>
<p>DeirdreTours,<br>
My kid (junior in high school) is considering all sorts of options, from starting college early to a gap year. We’re supportive of whatever he wants to do but we have a few conditions.</p>
<p>For example, he’s doing all the work for the application to start college early. All of it. We just write the checks (& light candles for scholarships!) If he decides to do his senior year followed by a gap year, we’re committed to it so long as he applies for college his senior year and then defers. </p>
<p>Personally, I would not worry about what he’ll do doing the gap year yet. Just get through the now and deal with that then. I know that is so much easier said than done! But it seems our sons are quite similiar and I’ve learned that of all the things I do need to worry about, that he will come up with a useful, interesting way to spend his time is not one of them. </p>
<p>Lastly, has he considered a few of the less traditional schools? They tend to be very expensive but if you can swing it, he might be a good match for schools like Hampshire, Sarah Lawrence, Brown or St. [St</a>. John’s College](<a href=“http://www.stjohnscollege.edu/main.shtml]St”>http://www.stjohnscollege.edu/main.shtml)</p>
<p>All of the suggestions for possible schools and pursuits are good ones. I guess what is essentially bothering me is that my son isn’t really choosing anything- he is just sort of letting choices go (by for example, not applying to any of the schools that he has visited or that write to him) and talking vaguely about maybe a gap year, maybe applying, not sure of what he wants, etc.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reassurance all. If/when he makes any sort of decision or takes some action I will report back.</p>
<p>I’m not reading this whole thread, but in a word: Grinnell.</p>
<p>In many cases not taking any action is making a decision. That’s how my younger S chose to do a gap year: He somehow wasn’t able to get any college apps in even though he said he was working hard on them.</p>
<p>
Another key characteristic of the gifted child: Fear of closure to the point of paralysis. “If I don’t finish I won’t be judged.”</p>
<p>I’m generally of the let it be school, but I think you should try to get your son to talk to a counselor, teacher, mentor – an adult that he respects who isn’t his parent. I don’t think college is the end all be all for all kids and I’m a great proponet of the gap year, but only if structured and productive. Drifting is something else.</p>
<p>Well, I find they can make their minds up pretty quick once the acceptance letters roll in. I have a kid, actually two, like this, although I would not describe them as “not giving a crap.” (Love the humor, though, and it sounds like something i would have said in the past- as in last week-before I resolved not to say anything negative about the kids and their academic choices anymore) I say, make your son apply to a few schools, at least one a reach that he doesn’t think he can get into. Spring is a long time away and he may just be grateful for some options by then. it only costs you a little money and a lot of aggravation (pushing him to apply); if he wants a gap year, then he can take it. At least you will know what he really wants to do if he has some choices. Yes, some kids who are pushed will flunk out or quit or flounder, but others take the opportunity and thrive in a college classroom while living independently. As for the frequent suggestion of LACS for kids like this: I am one mom whose kids would go crazy in such an environment. They NEED the pressure of sink or swim to get their work done and they have thus far stepped up to the challenge at their big, rigorous universities.</p>
<p>bessie, LACs especially the more selective ones, are no less rigorous and demanding than medium and large universities. In fact the opposite may be true as in a small environment there is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. I went to a BIG State U and believe me it was easy to sink. Nobody really cared.</p>
<p>It sounds like your son is wonderful. People underestimate how poorly grades judge work and capability in an area. Trust me, if colleges see TASP on his application, they know he’s already pre-screened for this kind of thing. Many schools even weight grades to their own standards to give everyone equal footing. The research you mentioned will help your son, and sound more than realistic. You have a very gifted teen on your hands. Often, with people like this, pushing them to work harder is pushing them away. I’m not saying that you don’t have your son’s best interests at heart, because it seems like you do, but coming from a teenager who has been there, sometimes the pressure makes it harder to do well. If you let him do his own thing, he’ll do it better than you could have ever hoped.</p>
<p>Some schools that might be good for your son: UMich, UChicago, UPenn, Princeton, Georgetown. It seems like he would be unhappy at a technical school, since you say he has a wide variety of interests. Princeton may not be right in a city, but it’s a quick trip to either Phillie or NYC. If your son enjoyed TASP, he should apply for the Telluride house at Michigan. It would give him a really well-rounded experience and a smaller, more accountable environment in a bigger university. Where did he do his seminar? If he was already at Michigan and liked Ann Arbor, it’s a hop skip and a jump from Detriot and would be a great fit, I think.</p>
<p>Seriously, though, the more you push, the less he will do for you. You don’t want to be one of those parents who looks back and realizes that they have no relationship with their child because they pushed them away. It sounds like you really care about your son, so let him be happy and find what makes him tick, because it sounds like he’s figured out what some people go forever not knowing: Life isn’t about grades, money, etc., it’s about love, happiness, and doing what makes you feel good about yourself. If he saves the ozone or something, you’ll be super-proud, and he may never get a single A in college. IB is tough, school’s know that. I for one have taken the hardest curriculum anyone’s ever taken at my school, and I know how he probably feels. People think you’re crazy. Kids and parents, and even teachers have a hard time understanding why you’d take a harder class for a lesser grade. No, my grades aren’t perfect. But learning all the material is so much more exciting than getting a perfect SAT score, and requires so much more brain power… for mastery, anyway. Let him shine. You’ll probably see in the end that he knew what he was doing all along.</p>
<p>Quirky, I hope you are right! </p>
<p>DS in not interested in LACs as his interests are too wide-- he wants engineering, science, history, environmental science, etc. We visited Swarthmore on the spring march through schools and he found it claustrophobic. He was wowed by Princeton-- but it is very unlikely he could be admitted to Princeton with a 3.4 junior gpa. So many people have brought up U. of Chicago that I have started leaving their web page up on the house computer.</p>
<p>Momrath, I fully realize that LAC’s can be very challenging and sometimes more rigorous than higher ranked, larger universities. I know they offer a great education and a lot of personal attention. For MY kids, they did not want a small environment. Both went in undeclared and wanted to keep their options wide open. They also wanted a large pool for friends so the bigger the school, the better. I have one at a school which is a giant public and he gets along fine there with TA’s and the whole huge university thing. He still works very hard and now that he is in his major, the university feels much smaller. Son 2 goes to a large private school with no TA’s and cannot get away with slacking off, which is the perception of why kids like these choose big schools. My sons both craved big schools and did not want to attend a small LAC. For some, that is the perfect solution. For mine, it wasn’t. I am just throwing it out there so people know that brilliant kids who don’t give a crap can be successful at big schools as well as smaller LAC’s since it is so commonly assumed that brilliant kids who don’t give a crap will do better at the smaller school with more supervision/attention. As with everything else… each student needs to find the college that fits them best.</p>
<p>I’m another shouter here for the University of Chicago, but before I yammer on about why I think the U of C would be great for the umpteenth time, I should mention that most of my friends in high school were of the “doesn’t give a blank” attitude when it comes to actual grade-getting (and, in one of my friend’s cases, almost didn’t graduate hs) but are very very very smart and had redeeming qualities on their application. </p>
<p>My friends like this have been doing marvelously at: CalTech, Oberlin, Brown, Skidmore, Clark, Carleton, in-state U, Cornell.</p>
<p>What do these schools have in common? You tell me, I can’t find a thread that links them all except for the fact that they are all schools that the STUDENT chose for themselves (though at least in some cases, the parents really needed to do some pushing). So more than anything your S needs to be excited about his post-graduation options. And I say “post-graduation options” instead of “college” because he might benefit greatly from a gap year or two. One of my friends at one of those schools benefited tremendously from a gap year (she applied, got in, and deferred a year).</p>
<p>So, now that I’ve presented my overall take on things, I’ll now talk about my favorite school… ;-)</p>
<p>– I wasn’t really a “doesn’t give” kid, but I think a large part of that was because I found an ideal academic environment for me in high school and I wanted to do well. I did, however, once get an A in one of my classes, and I thought, “Gee, I worked way too hard!” I also didn’t study for the SAT, or any exams for that matter, but I thought about Milton and calculus a lot. Had I gone to a high school as socially isolating as my high school was, AND not academically engaging, then there’s no way I would have been the kind of student I was.</p>
<p>– I don’t want to say this with any scientific certainty, but I know more than a handful of students here who had troubled pasts (and by troubled I mean drugs, family violence, etc.) who are otherwise brilliant but just don’t have the grades to show it. They’re here, they’re doing marvelously. I also know lots of kids who have been homeschooled, kids who never took the SAT’s… in other words, I think that if there’s an elite college that’s going to be sympathetic to non-standard applications, I think it’s going to be Chicago.</p>
<p>– Chicago’s social environment is flexible and tolerant, almost by necessity. I can’t begin to tell you how many different kinds of students go here, and the differences are so dizzying that there is no “typical,” no “norm,” no “standard.” It’s a gigantic breath of fresh air, and it’s great ground on which to start anew.</p>
<p>Gotta say, every time I see the title of this thread, I smile. I was that kid, too, and came out just fine, though I’m sure my mother’s hair turned gray around then.</p>
<p>At Chicago, THAT KID has a home.</p>
<p>The minute I read the initial description I thought of Reed. DD1 visited and loved it there (was waitlisted). The school doesn’t even give out grades unless you go to the office to ask about them. Please, consider Reed! FWIW, they offer no merit aid, only need based.</p>
<p>This has probably been mentioned, or you have already checked it out, but some of the schools in Colleges that Change Lives might be good fits.</p>
<p>The book Cool Colleges for the Hyper-Intelligent, Self-Directed, Late Blooming, and Just Plain Different has some really helpful suggestions for students like your son. You might want to consider checking it out.</p>
<p>Erin’s Dad: I’m not sure about Reed… it may be too small for him.</p>
<p>Deirdre: if your son has stats that good and and is even remotely interesting, with where you’re from, his shot at Princeton may not be as bad as you think, but if he likes it, it never hurts to apply.</p>