Chemical Engineers Don't Come Here

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Alabama
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<p>mom2collegekids</p>

<p>From the level of activity you have on these boards you are a very involved parent when it comes to your child’s college career. Even more than most parents I would say. Plus, your children are obviously “high profile” students and were actively recruited by UA. When combined, I am not surprised that your sons knew of the required summer class. I do not know too many high school seniors that looked at the curriculum for their majors. However, you are correct, I did not do my homework.</p>

<p>As far as me thinking the faculty would show how much they care by doing this to another class…well yes, it would show us that they care. If they enacted these changes to apply for the Summer Lab 2011 class, that would give those students more than a year to plan accordingly and would not hurt the Summer 2010 class.</p>

<p>Using a semester of a scholarship package would not be the most economically smart option in this case. Because the summer lab began during interim and ran into part of summer 1 you could only take the summer lab and summer 2 classes. However, you would have to use the funds for interim, summer 1, and summer 2 classes - even though no summer 1 classes would be taken.</p>

<p>Many students do receive the $2500 a year from the engineering department. If those students use that money to pay for meals and books then they still will not be able to pay for the summer lab. Regardless, the purpose of that scholarship was/is to attract students to major in engineering.</p>

<p>“No one should be complaining that they might have to pay for “some” of their education. Getting a four year degree and only having to come up with a few thousand dollars over the entire 4 years is NO BIG DEAL…”</p>

<p>Since we like to quote people on these boards…remember our degree is not a four year degree. Also, I’m glad coming up with a few thousand dollars is no big deal to you. However, this poses a big deal to many students, especially given the manner in which this situation has occurred. Also, I agree with feenotype, some false advertising does seem to be at work. Our university prides itself on its relationships with it students and how it strives to create the ideal learning and growing environment, etc, etc. By “luring” top students with the scholarship packages that are supposedly “full rides” (I am always sure to tell visiting students that most are not “full rides”), but not reiterating to them the exceptions with certain degrees, they are tricking the students into believing they will graduate virtually debt free. Money plays a vital role in the decision on which college a student attends. I am by no means whining. I do not consider it being greedy when students are misled. I am forever grateful for the opportunity I have been granted. Yet, our department, university, etc is surely not creating that ideal learning and growing environment for us students.</p>

<p>As for an appropriate manner, just think of what I am doing as what the media does: Sensationalism. </p>

<p>Feeno - yup, I am aware that 162 is being taken away. I just hope they at least have some labs somewhere for us where we can use ChemCAD. They do give us to ChemCAD cd’s but that program is huge and my cpu is becoming obsolete. </p>

<p>I actually have spoken to Dean Karr and he directed me to the CHE faculty, saying that they are responsible for the scheduling of courses at this level.</p>

<p>mom2collegekids
I forgot to mention that the summer lab course is now a 6 hour course. So we are paying more for the same class. Also, the length of the class has been shortened a few days too. However, our student catalog bible states that it is a 5 hour class. But I think there is a clause somewhere that gives our department the right to make any changes to the curriculum at any time, so again I did not do my homework. </p>

<p>navarre1 - don’t worry $6K is no big deal.</p>

<p>Sea_tide - it is quite possible to not know how even with advising. When we go to advising they really only advise us for the next term for which we are registering. Depending on the professor advising, he or she may give you the heads up about taking this or that course so that you meet the prerequisites, etc. </p>

<p>osdad - I am not sure how ROTC requirements would affect summer lab. I did have an organic chem professor this summer who did not care that a young lady was in the reserves and had to miss an evening quiz session to do her duties. In fact, this evening class session was not really part of the class. He felt the need to add the extra session so he could cram more into us (the class met officially from 8-945 m-f, but he added an evening session on Thursdays as well). So professors seem to have great leeway in their class policies so email the chemical engineering faculty. </p>

<p>Atlanta - I agree I will miss college but I won’t necessarily miss UA itself. However, I may seem like I am just whining but I actually have and am taking measures to discuss this issue with officials (spoken with Dean, Department Head, President, Vice President, whoever). I just like to get people riled up on here so I can get a lot of feedback. No harm done. I definitely won’t be sending my children, if I have any, here to major in engineering though. Haha.</p>

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<p>I think your time would be better spent getting fellow Chem E students “riled up” so that their “feedback” will be towards the Dean, Dept Head, etc. The feedback from here is rather pointless. The feedback from Chem E students might yield some power - especially if it’s managed in a professional constructive way. </p>

<p>Again, I think you and fellow Chem E students should write a thoughtful (not nasty) piece for the Crimson White detailing how this affects your lives, your pocketbooks, OOS students’ pocketbooks, internship opportunities, housing, etc. Don’t mention things like not being able to join a frat. Mention how this damages/impairs your career prospects and your finances. Mention that this summer requirement is a burden on ChemE students alone.</p>

<p>Suggest workable solutions. It doesn’t mean much to just complain if you can’t offer a reasonable solution.</p>

<p>Possible suggested solutions to be offerred…</p>

<ol>
<li>Eliminate the req’t completely, unless the Chem E department can put in writing a detailed reason why this requirement is needed.</li>
</ol>

<p>or</p>

<ol>
<li> Charge a one set price for all Chem E students in-state or OOS of no more than $1000 for the required 5 or 6 credit session.
3 special reduced housing should be made available - perhaps thru the Bluffs.</li>
<li> The session should start right after spring session.</li>
<li> NMF or Presidential scholarships should include this cost.</li>
<li> Reduce the number of weeks required, reduce the credit hours, reduce the cost.</li>
</ol>

<p>Your Chem E pals don’t need to write separate letters unless CW requires that. If allowed, one piece that encompasses all these concerned signed by all will likely get printed. Also, send the same piece to the Dept head, dean, etc. </p>

<p>Be smart, be concise, be professional…make some noise. Use the Crimson White, there’s power in numbers.</p>

<p>And lastly…if you want help/advice from CC members…just say…Can someone help me with this… The bombthrowing is a distraction that is unnecessary and wastes everyone’s time.</p>

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<p>Actually, it got me to read the thread. As someone who’s son has been getting bombarded with scholarship information from UA, it is good to know there are loopholes and caveats. I’ll pass this information along to those I know who are looking into engineering at UA based on the advertised scholarships.</p>

<p>Thanks for the heads up…</p>

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<p>I’ve been readong this thread with interest even though D’s course of study is not engineering. I fully understand the expenses involved in receiving a college education, I work in higher education. However I believe if UAprophet had more of an “investment” in his education at UA, he might value it more. It’s hard to place a value on something that is “free”, as it sounds like his education has been until now.
College, just like everything else in life, can have it’s shares of unplanned expenses that must be dealt with. A full tuition scholarship is a gift, not an entitlement.
This week we had an unplanned auto expense of $385.00, and were told another repair was needed at $500.00. But unlike uaprophet, I have no one to complain to, I just suck it up, and deal with.
I hope ua prophet isn’t disappointed when he graduates, and his dream job has budget cuts, layoffs, and no pay increases for 3 years, because that is the real world.</p>

<p>Relax and enjoy college while you can, ua prophet, and try to find funding for the fraternity. You might enjoy the company of some friends, with a different perspective on UA.</p>

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<p>AG54</p>

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<p>Be sure to distinguish that this summer requirement is ONLY for ChemE students. None of the other UA Eng’g programs have this requirement. Discouraging prospective EE, Civil, Aero, or any of the other engineering majors based on this ChemE requirement wouldn’t be accurate.</p>

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<p>^^^ Of course. </p>

<p>Quite a few kids from our school go to Alabama because of the generous scholarships, so I will just let people know to check with their majors. Like you said, homework needs to be done. I probably wouldn’t have read the fine print, I know I didn’t when my oldest took the UF scholarship. Luckily, it ended up working out, but he definitely could have been thrown a monkey wrench!!</p>

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<p>Navarre…“Unless I got some bad information from the Auburn Scholarship office, they do not give in state tuition to OOS full-tuition shcolarship recipients.”</p>

<p>I think Navarre is right. I can’t find where it states that OOS Auburn students with tuition scholarships pay in-state for summer school. </p>

<p>Also, the NM scholarship for Auburn includes $4400 for housing, but their honors housing is about $5600 right now (a $1200 shortfall). And since housing rates go up each year, there could be a growing gap each year. (I’ll PM this to you, too.)</p>

<p>I noticed that Auburn charges “student fees” every semester PLUS “course fees”. Does the Auburn NMF include those semester “student fees” ($246 per semester)? </p>

<p>And, as you mentioned earlier, Auburn’s scholarship only covers 15 credit hours per semester. For an OOS student, that 16 credit hour taken various semesters could really add up.</p>

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<p>To be fair, Mom, doesn’t the UA NMF scholarship cover regular housing costs. If one chooses the higher cost housing, as I suspect the honors dorms are, I’m sure there is a cost differential.</p>

<p>One thing age and experience teaches us is that nothing in life is free. It’s actually a reason I looked beyond our state flagship. When friends told me they paid about 20 grand for LSU, I thought, well, if I’m going to shell out that kind of money, going to look beyond the state options.</p>

<p>Although the free rides are tempting, if a school is not a fit for your child, personality or academically, it is worth the extra money to get what you want, within reason. Of course, compromises will have to be made. </p>

<p>Remember the old adage, you get what you pay for. If it seems too good to be true, it usually is. </p>

<p>Now, this is not a knock on Bama or Auburn or any of those free ride schools. Just a warning to look closely at the fine print.</p>

<p>Really, how many of you have ordered that TV stuff where they tell you you get all this stuff for one low price. Usually, when you get it in the mail, there’s a catch to it, isn’t there? Some little hidden extra stuff you have to pay for, that wasn’t mentioned in the original ad. </p>

<p>I have no doubt that there are a lot of little catches to scholarship offers, and one should always budget for extra expenses. There’s bound to be some surprises.</p>

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<p>Navarre1, unless [Office</a> of the Registrar - Residency](<a href=“http://www.auburn.edu/administration/registrar/helpful-resources/enrollment/residency.html]Office”>http://www.auburn.edu/administration/registrar/helpful-resources/enrollment/residency.html) is outdated, it says that instate tuition can be had by “Non-resident undergraduate students who have been awarded full academic, athletic or other similar performance tuition scholarships by Auburn University and graduate students appointed on assistantships of at least 1/4-time.” </p>

<p>One certainly needs to read the fine print about UA’s scholarships in order to avoid unpleasant surprises when the bill needs to be paid. That said, there are also some very student-friendly rules with UA scholarships. </p>

<p>Montegut, UA will pay for almost any dorm, including the honors ones, which cost a lot more than traditional ones. For those without a housing scholarship, note that UA dorm costs are quite affordable compared to other schools. AFAIK, NMF’s only have to pay for food, dining dollars, course fees, and incidentals. Some clubs do cost money. Mom2collegekids knows more about this than I do.</p>

<p>Uaprophet, I do realize that advising isn’t usually long-term planning, my point was that UA does inform students of their major’s requirements, students don’t always pay attention.</p>

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<p>NO cost differential. The UA NMF covers ALL of the cost for honors housing for the 4 room suites (most of them are 4 room suites)…100% of the cost. This is my son’s 3rd year in honors housing; his scholarship pays for all of it. </p>

<p>I would never have made the above point if there had been a cost differential.</p>

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<p>If the above is true, then UAProphet (and others) should use that as pressure at UA. Some at UA may be thinking that the state won’t allow them to charge in-state to OOS, but if Auburn is doing that for scholarship recipients, then UA should do likewise…at least for a required summer session!</p>

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<p>Just spoke with a student from the engineering dept and was advised that this is the last year that chem engineering student will have to take the 6 credit summer course. I’m not sure how reliable info is but that is what I told.</p>

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<p>My apologies for my mistake on differential on honors housing.</p>

<p>Rereading through above posts, it looks like I may have been confusing Auburn and Bama with regard to honors housing.</p>

<p>Thanks, Mom, for clarifying that, and sorry if I led anyone astray.</p>

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<p>A student? Wouldn’t it be more reliable to ask a professor or administrator? AFAIK, the status of Summer Lab beyond next year is still up in the air.</p>

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<p>Good news for future students!!! Hopefully this is true…I’ll have son write and ask since this would affect him.</p>

<p>But the most logical question is…If they’ve determined it’s not necessary for next year’s juniors, they why would it be necessary for this year’s juniors. That’s the position that UAProphet and friends need to ask (and INSIST on an explanation!!!) </p>

<p>I can see that it might be impossible for those in ROTC…and costly for OOS. NMF could also use $2000 summer research scholllie along with any eng’g schollie, but that still won’t be enough for OOS.</p>

<p>:)</p>

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<p>No problem!!! :slight_smile: It’s very hard to keep it all straight!!! I, too, asked housing this question when DS1 was applying. At that time, it was even more vaguely specified. (I think it’s still a bit vague! LOL )</p>

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<p>I think all COE labs (those open to all majors) are equipped with Polymath, ChemCAD, and the heat exchange design program (I can’t remember its name). To those in the know, those are the main computer design program used by chemical engineering students at UA. However, at this point, there are no plans to provide a new lab for exclusive use by chemical engineering students like other departments have. Like I said, sometimes I get the feeling the dean doesn’t like the chemical engineering dept. here.</p>

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<p>Nice copout. What he didn’t tell you is that a department can’t schedule a course if the college will not provide funding for paying the instructors and TAs. Luckily, the department alumni board has stepped in to externally fund the course this year. Don’t know about next year and beyond, however.</p>

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<p>Ok in the engineering session I was advised that the summer course is still required for chemical engineering students. So im not sure what the correct answer is.</p>

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<p>catfan - please don’t assume that I don’t know the value of an education just because I have been able to earn scholarships to pay for the majority of my education.</p>

<p>feenotype - thanks, I’ll have to see if I can’t get a better answer from the Dean.</p>

<p>navarre1 - it seems to me that all of our faculty aren’t quite sure amongst themselves what the plans are in the near future besides 2010. I’m getting different answers from a couple of them.</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>I would list my questions in writing by email to the appropriate people to get their responses in writing.</p>

<p>I would express concerns and ask questions, such as…</p>

<p>What is the purpose of this summer requirement, and why must it exist?</p>

<p>The schedule of the ChemE summer requirement has been moved from commencing right after the end of spring term (May XX) to Summer Session I (June YY). This delay further hinders any summer internship opportunities, because the session now occurs in the middle of summer break. </p>

<p>Does it concern you that this requirement, and especially its new later schedule, negatively affects summer internship opportunities during the summer before senior year, a time when Chem E students would want to participate in internships to help their chances for full-time employment after graduation? </p>

<p>What does the ChemE department plan to do to prevent such negative consequences to its students?</p>

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<p>I would add:</p>

<p>What considerations has the Department given to the financial impact this mandatory class has on students? Has the Department taken any steps to mitigate these impacts; such as making on-campus housing available at reduced rates for interested students?</p>