<p>Some of you may remember an earlier discussion about the ChemE summer requirement between junior and senior year. It was a costly requirement and also interfered with summer internship opportunities.</p>
<p>Bama has announced that the requirement is being discontinued.</p>
<p>I imagine that something will be put in its place during the school year which will enable the “all day” chemistry experiments that the summer req’t had. (That was the reason for the req’t…the students were doing experiments that required all day.)</p>
<p>Perhaps Bama will change some of the 3rd year Chem E classes to allow a similar ChemE class to meet all day on Tuesday and Thursday or all day on Friday to enable those experiments. </p>
<p>lol @ feenotype. What is your problem with the administration? Just about every post I read from you seems to have a negative vibe. I’m a Bama alum and I remain in contact with many others as well as several campus employees. </p>
<p>Everyone is thrilled with Dr. Witt and what he has done for The University except you it seems. What gives?</p>
<p>I’m just glad that Bama listened to the concerns of students, parents, etc about how that req’t was negatively affecting them. It was costly (6 credits) and of course, housing and meals were also needed.</p>
<p>I think kids were voting with their feet (changing their engineering emphasis) to avoid the req’t, so Bama realized that the req’t had to go.</p>
<p>I do think Bama will get creative and come up with another way of handling this so that the “all day” experiments can still go on.</p>
<p>If Bama changed the way the 300 ChemE classes are held during the Spring semester, then they could have those classes meet M/W or T/Th or MTWTh…and then have an all day class on Friday…or offer most 300 ChemE classes on MWF, and then offer an all day course that meets on T/Th.</p>
<p>Wow! We just met with Dr. Acoff on Monday and we discussed this issue. She mentioned the possibility that the summer session might be discontinued but made very compelling points on why she thought it should stay as is…</p>
<p>I’m a Chem E myself and I didn’t buy all her points because I didn’t need to do a summer session of unit ops labs. We did what we needed to do during the semester even if that meant spending weekends at the lab to get it all done.</p>
<p>FYI, we are still in our spring college trip, but right now Bama is on top of my son’s list, closely followed by Auburn (I like Auburn better but is not my decision…). We are right now in South Carolina a it is falling short of expectations…Once we are done I’ll post our comments on Alabama.</p>
<p>I’m kinda suspicious. It’s true that I don’t sugarcoat my responses when I have a strong opinion of something. But how would you know that from being here all of a week. Unless…</p>
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<p>I’m interested in knowing where these concerns came from. When I took summer lab, I never heard of these concerns. Sure, there was griping about having to be in lab during the heat of summer from 8-5. But, I’ll say this. Everybody I’ve talked to that has taken summer lab says it’s the best course in chemical engineering they took at UA.</p>
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<p>Or maybe it was from the systemic undermining of the department by the college administration in favor others that kowtow to the dean’s ego. Maybe it was from the taking away of computer labs and lounge space. Maybe it was from the explosion of section sizes from 10-15 to 50-60 as the university refused to supply additional professors while turning this university into the University of Texas-Tuscaloosa.</p>
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<p>That’s how it is right now. All upper level ChE courses are 3-hour MWF, except for 319 (the basic lab taken before summer lab). If that were a workable solution, it probably have been implemented by now.</p>
<p>Yeah I’ve only been here one week as a poster. But I’ve read back through the forum and have come across many posts by you that just have a negative vibe to them. Hell, even my innocent post about Archibalds BBQ brought out a negative vibe from you. </p>
<p>I’m not advocating anybody sugarcoat anything. I think The University can stand on it’s own merits without BS being spread. I just wonder what your problems are with Dr. Witt and the administration who the overwhelming amount of alums I talk too absolutely love.</p>
<p>From your line about UA becoming University of Texas-Tuscaloosa I think I realize the issue. And I’m not gonna say you’re all wrong either. Back when I went to UA in the early 90’s the enrollment was around 15,000. When I hear about the plans to expand enrollment to 28,000+ I too was a bit apprehensive because I didn’t want the campus to lose it’s charm and small town feel. But I honestly don’t think it has when I visit. Maybe it’s different since I’m on the outside looking in. Obviously you’ve seen the changes first hand during your time there. And maybe you’re a bit resentful of the way things are done now.</p>
<p>I’d just like you to take a step back and look at the big picture and not take the changes that are being made so personally. Dr. Witt is the best thing that has happened to this University in a long time. You should have been around in the late 80’s early 90’s when Roger Sayers was President. Now that was someone to be negative about.</p>
<p>Anyway, Roll Tide!! We’re all part of the Alabama family even though we may disagree on how the family is being run.</p>
<p>* All upper level ChE courses are 3-hour MWF, except for 319 (the basic lab taken before summer lab). If that were a workable solution, it probably have been implemented by now.
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<p>I think that it hasn’t been implemented yet because they didn’t want to give up the summer session. They will likely implement something because that was the 6 credits with the W designation. They also still want to do the “all day” experiments. If all the upper division classes are now MWF, then it seems that there wouldn’t be a problem offering a T/TH all day class for the 6 credit W designation and all day experiments. </p>
<p>One big change from when you remember is that now Bama has more OOS students and that class is very expensive for them. It’s 6 credits at OOS rates. Even for instate kids it was about $1800. Plus housing/meals. The housing part was also a big issue because getting housing for just those weeks was expensive. </p>
<p>It also interfered with students being able to get internships the summer before graduation. That was very professionally limiting for them.</p>
<p>I was one of the many people who submitted well-thought out lists of reasons why it needed to “go away.” Bama can’t have kids signing up for ChemE and then changing their emphasis once they realize that they can’t afford the summer class. It disrupts the enrollment of the upper division ChemE classes.</p>
<p>Feenotype: I have read some of your previous posts, and I’m not here to judge or jump on you about what you have said. Your opinion is one that should be taken into account when students and their parents look at Alabama as a possible college choice. People will find fault with any school for everything from cost to dorms to social life to athletics to academics. My son is an Alabama student, and he says that there are a lot of things to love about the school, but there are some things that need to be addressed to make the place better. (BTW, he is not an engineering major).</p>
<p>But that is the case with any school. </p>
<p>It would worry me if I always heard that everything was wonderful. When that happens, people tend to relax, and often the quality of programs suffer. I hope, Feenotype, you do make your concerns known to the administration. You may have some valid points that may need to be examined.</p>
<p>Very true. Every school has pluses and minuses. Every school has rules/requirements that people aren’t going to like. It’s like a job (or a spouse…LOL). Nothing is perfect.</p>
<p>And, with the current economic times, Bama is lucky that it isn’t slashing and dicing to the extent that many other colleges are doing. Bama has had minimal cutbacks compared to what is going on at other schools.</p>
<p>Bama is still going ahead with its building and remodeling/updating plans. That’s more than what many other colleges can do right now.</p>
<p>I sympathize with Feeno. The rapid growth at UA has surely caused difficulties for many students. Yet, compared with other schools, UA still has a lot less headaches for its students to deal with. </p>
<p>The reality is that UA is the flagship of a poor state that does a less than admirable job of funding its large research universities. Because past UA administrators dropped the ball on doing what it took to have a top notch research university, Dr. Witt is forced to use enrollment growth as a principal way to pull in more revenue to support the huge expenses incurred with making UA a top tier research university. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, despite the huge jump in enrollment, UA HAS become more selective. Last fall, UA only accepted 57 per cent of its applicants, and that was prior to requiring its applicants to submit ACT or SAT writing test scores. The middle 50 per cent of its most recent freshman class had an ACT score of 22-27, which is a significant improvement from the time I attended back in the late 80s and early 90s. This same freshman class had well over 1,250 students with an ACT or SAT equivalent of 28 or higher. And the number of applications continues to rise, so there is no doubt that UA will be able to be even more selective this Fall and in the future. </p>
<p>Dr. Witt has stated that the freshman class at UA has reached its peak of around 5,200 per year. With the recent purchase of the Bryce campus adjacent to UA, and the continuing campus beautification program, the quality of life for UA students should improve greatly in the long run. </p>
<p>But out of curiosity, what exactly are some of the things Dr. Karr has done that you dont like? I would like to get your POV on him. He seems like a very energetic, and and dynamic campus leader, but maybe I was wrong. What does he need to do to make UA Engineering better? Do you think he may be hamstrung till the facility improvements (completion of Phase 3 and 4 of SEC) are completed?</p>
<p>I think Dr. Witt is doing an amazing job. He’s taking what he’s learned from the UTexas system (the good and the bad) and is moving Bama into a higher ranking school. Unlike UT that is not assessable to many, many Texas students, Bama is trying to balance the need to admit more high stats kids while still being assessable to the the resident student from a less-than-adequate K-12 system in his rural county. So, the answer is to grow the school. Otherwise, the modest stats resident student is shut out. </p>
<p>There are always “growing pains” when an institution grows. When does that not happen? My kids’ own high school will soon be going from 325 students to 600 students when it moves to its new campus next fall. There will be some hiccups, missteps, and plain old big mistakes. Oh well…that’s progress…that’s growth. That happens. </p>
<p>Well UA is doing extremely well in attracting the top stat students. I would argue though, that it could enroll almost as many students as it currently does, even if it set a firmer entrance requirement for SAT and/or ACT scores. I agree that the state schools, and the parents! of Alabama could do a better job of preparing kids for college, but I don’t think UA should be required to admit the lower stat students. If the many kids who applied to UA knew that there was a minimum requirement of let’s say 21 on the ACT, don’t ya think a significant number of them would study harder to get that minimum score? I realize that UA is now rejecting a lot of the applicants that it used to admit, but 21 is still a rather low top score for the bottom 25 per cent range. </p>
<p>There are so many institutions available to students of all state levels in Alabama. The low stats kids have many options besides UA. Clemson, in S.C. for example, has a very high ACT/SAT avg., yet it is a state school in a poor state. Eventually, if UA’s prestige is going to continue to advance, it must become even more selective. I predict that as UA becomes more selective, there will be outcries from some corners. Yes, we are headed in that direction, but I hope the state leaders and the public of Alabama don’t become resentful of UA when it has to reject more than half of its applicants. Its what UF, and even FSU, and other large state southern schools are already doing. Why should UA be different? As an alum, I want UA to continue to become even more selective, not out of snobbery, but as a way to up everyone’s game and to advance the prestige of Alabama’s flagship school.</p>
<p>*but I don’t think UA should be required to admit the lower stat students. If the many kids who applied to UA knew that there was a minimum requirement of let’s say 21 on the ACT, don’t ya think a significant number of them would study harder to get that minimum score? I realize that UA is now rejecting a lot of the applicants that it used to admit, but 21 is still a rather low top score for the bottom 25 per cent range. *</p>
<p>I agree. I don’t know how many of those students are athletes or admitted on “academic probation” or have been admitted by portfolio/performance. I know someone who had an ACT 20, but a good GPA at a private school, who was admitted on academic probation. </p>
<p>From what admissions told me…(unless a student is needed for a sport), generally a low ACT needs to be balanced with a higher GPA…(indicating that they have a certain level of pride in doing their school work.) Some of these kids usually have to submit recs and writing samples to help tip the scale in their favor. Lastly, these admittances are usually students who applied VERY early to the school. You won’t generally see these kids admitted if they apply in late winter. Many schools with rolling admissions are more lenient with scores at the beginning of the app season. </p>
<p>That said, no one is requiring Bama to continue to admit some of these kids. Those is power just feel an ethical desire to admit them to give them a chance. However, as the rejection rate increases, it will be harder to get in with those lower stats.</p>
<p>So, yes, soon those with ACTs in the low 20s will know that they need to get higher to even have a chance to get in.</p>
<p>I don’t know if the school has formally announced it, but I think it was the female prof who is normally involved with the summer program who told the kids a couple of weeks (or so) ago in class. </p>
<p>She said that it was just too expensive for the OOS students. Costing them as much as $10k (which is really more than what is true - I think it’s closer to about $7k.) But, maybe she was including loss of summer wages in that figure (which affects instate and OOS students.) I think she said the provost made the decision.</p>