<p>The information I've read on these forums are horribly misleading and melodramatic. The sad thing is that a young undergraduate might actually read it and believe it to be true.</p>
<p>If you really want a forum to ask questions about law school, you're better off at a place like top law school forums. The users there are actually students that have gone through the process of admissions and can tell you a whole lot more about law than you college confidential.</p>
<p>I just thought it was silly that the general consensus on this forum was, "Go to a T-14 school and you MIGHT have a 10% of being employed. You might get a $40k starting salary. If you're lucky." At the same time, there are too many "he said" "she said" stories of "my friend went to a top law school and works at McDonalds."</p>
<p>This isn't helpful at it; it's not true and it certainly doesn't apply to the majority of law students.</p>
<p>Stop giving false information college confidential users.</p>
<p>yea I don’t really take this forum seriously at all. Sure I am only a undergrad sophomore BUT I have a lot of family and know many people who work in law today. The field is not nearly as bad as it is made to be on these forums.</p>
<p>Hell the majority of law school grads from the Univ. of Kentucky get hired within a year of graduation with a respectable starting salary. Yet I come on here and if you aren’t in the top 10 percent of the top 5 law schools then you will be a middle school janitor for the rest of your life. It is silly</p>
<p>there is some very good insight on these boards but you have to take everything with a grain of salt and dissect the good information from the misleading</p>
<p>It may not be what you want to hear, but I can tell you that I’ve been completely honest here (as a practicing lawyer and parent of a law student). My resume has both NYC law firm and Fortune 500 experience. I’ve slowly become one of the negative posters over the past few years. The field is that bad. </p>
<p>It’s tougher out there than you want to believe. The last time I put an ad in our local newspaper for a lawyer with 1-3 years experience, the recruiters told me that they received more resumes than for any other position posted by the company. Resumes came in from current law students, laid off lawyers with 30+ years of experience, lawyers with a year or more of document review work, and graduates who had never found that first job. Resumes came in from lawyers in other states offering to relocate at their own cost. My kid responded to a job posting at a local small firm which was hiring summer clerks. The thank-you letter mentioned that they had received over 60 resumes from local law students. Yes, it’s bad out there.</p>
<p>The same information is available on T-L-S, although you don’t get parents or practicing lawyers on that site. You’ll find buzz on the same articles about the glut in the legal profession, dropping salaries, deferred associates, the fact that there are fewer OCI interviews every year, and that the ratings don’t distinguish between legal jobs and jobs in the school’s placement office or at McDonalds.</p>
<p>Sure, some people find jobs. Some students will get good scholarships and be able to avoid crushing debt. Some of the students in school today will become judges, successful litigators, professors of law, etc. One of the best things about the law has always been that there’s a chance that a good lawyer can market himself or herself and build a career with hard work, skill and luck. Lower tier schools produce excellent lawyers too - don’t let anyone convince you otherwise, or you’ll be very surprised when practicing in the real world when you discover that your Judge graduated from a 4th Tier school or you lose a case to a lawyer from a lower-ranked law school. </p>
<p>Obviously, the law schools are still full even though applications have started to drop. My own kid is committed to the practice of law (which is a concern to me), along with all of his classmates. I guess the naysayers aren’t very effective, or the prospective law students all know better…</p>
<p>While the things you mention are not inaccurate, that doesn’t justify the “Go to Harvard or commit suicide” mentality this forum has.</p>
<p>The people that seem to eff up and post all these horror stories and crap are the ones that are dead ■■■■■■■■ enough to decide to pay sticker price to attend some T3 trash school in the middle of Alabama and then wanting to pursue big law in New York City. No duh you’re going to be unemployed and sunken in debt. That was a dumb decision to begin with.</p>
<p>There is no definitive answer to that question. Just go to the best law school you possibly can, do the best you can to be in the top of your class, network, and take into considerations factors like: 1)how much scholarship money the school is offering as well, 2) where you want to work at ultimately and in the long run (i.e. If you want to work in Los Angeles, going to law school in Florida makes little sense. Law schools in general are very regional - where you go to law school is IDEALLY where you will build your network and where you will find your internships).</p>
<p>Just remember that as you move lower down in school reputations and lower in class rankings, then your chances of finding meaningful employment also sink lower. The higher you move in school reputation and the higher you move up in your class rankings, the greater your chances of finding meaningful employment. Just remember there’s no such thing as guarantee. A law degree from Harvard, or any other school, will not GUARANTEE you a job.</p>
<p>More importantly, there will always be naysayers. If you are pre-med, you’ve probably talked to many doctors who will tell you that if they could do it again, they would not be doctors. If you are pre-pharmacy, you’ve probably talked to many pharmacists that will tell you if they could start over, they wouldn’t be pharmacists. The same goes for lawyers. Some lawyers hate their job, and some love it. Just remember why you want to be a lawyer. Make sure you are doing it for the right reasons. Make sure you are going to law school to be a lawyer because it is you who wants to be a lawyer and because you love the field of law and you absolutely cannot see yourself doing anything else.</p>
<p>Even if you have an 85% chance of getting a high paying, BIGLAW job, that’s still a 1 in 6 chance of serious financial pressure or worse. And perhaps another 15% chance that you will be miserable at BIGLAW but trapped there because of your financial obligations.</p>
<p>Any way you slice it, the combination of high tuition and non-dischargeability of student loans means that law school has a serious chance of being a big turn for the worse in your life.</p>
<p>That is so stupid. Where did you get that 85% number from? You can say that for ANYTHING. If you go to pharmacy school, there is a 90% chance (arbitrary number btw) that you will find employment. There is a 10% chance that you will be $200,000 in debt, and unemployed, which will literally ruin your life. Also, you might be employed, but you may be miserable as a pharmacist. The same goes for any other professional graduate school that requires high tuition and years of commitment.</p>
<p>So if you’re going to law school, you better be darn sure why you’re doing it.</p>
<p>So far, you haven’t said much that is counter to the advice on this board. Is there a point where you would advise against going to law school at all?</p>
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<p>Also, note that all of your examples involve further schooling, which can trap you in a way that a regular job can’t. Say you start up on a real job, which you hate – well, you quit and go find something else. It’s difficult, but you’re not trapped.</p>
<p>Say you go to law (or pharmacy or medical) school, and you find that you either can’t get a job or that you hate the job in question. Very often, you’re trapped.</p>
<p>"That is so stupid. Where did you get that 85% number from? You can say that for ANYTHING. If you go to pharmacy school, there is a 90% chance (arbitrary number btw) that you will find employment. There is a 10% chance that you will be $200,000 in debt, and unemployed, which will literally ruin your life. Also, you might be employed, but you may be miserable as a pharmacist. The same goes for any other professional graduate school that requires high tuition and years of commitment.</p>
<p>So if you’re going to law school, you better be darn sure why you’re doing it."</p>
<p>True, that is why many people discourage others from attending a law school, especially if it is low-ranked. Because employment prospects suck and cost of attendance is too high. If law school was cheap to attend (like many state-U undergrad programs), I don’t think there will be that much issue. It costs a fortune to attend even the crappiest of all law schools. And no, many people are very ignorant with how legal hiring structures are. Some people actually believe the career statistics that law schools provide to prospective students.</p>
<p>I’m not here to counter anything. I’m criticizing this forum for lacking the informative resources that a good law forum would ideally provide. Instead of giving information and advice on how to prepare for the LSAT or how to succeed in law school or how to decide which law school is best for you, this forum is filled with a bunch of naysayers who have nothing to do all day but bring up horror stories - some clearly exaggerated - and discourage people from going to law school.</p>
<p>Yes, telling prospective students realistic expectations of the legal field is fine, but what CC does is overkill and certainly unnecessary. If you read every single thread, half of the posts are actually informative and the other half are basically naysayers screaming, “Law school is fool’s gold!”</p>
<p>Maybe college confidential should rename this forum from “Law School” to “Reasons Not To Go To Law School.” For the record, I have rarely seen any encouraging commentary about the legal profession. Contrary to what everyone thinks, some people truly enjoy being attorneys and believe it or not, it can actually be a rewarding career <em>gasp</em></p>
<p>I think it is far better that someone be warned that law school is a bad investment before he even applies to law schools, rather than after he has started law school…</p>
<p>So your complaint is that this particular board is committing errors of omission rather than commission? E.g. it’s not so much that the advice dispensed is erroneous, it’s that it’s missing other advice which would also be useful?</p>
<p>I really think that many law schools should be closed down, ASAP. And, I don’t care if law professors at these schools teaching some random environmental or international law course lose their jobs.</p>
<p>NonAznGuy, I agree with you to some degree.</p>
<p>As for “Harvard” or nowhere, go on TLS and you will find dozens of posters who are complaining that Harvard grads are having a tough time. There are plenty of “Yale or nowhere” people on there. </p>
<p>The people on here are mostly risk averse, to a shocking degree at time. So if my JD puts me in serious debt, what am I going to do, just give up on life? I’d rather take the chance than accept a 30K job that I hate anyway. But even I would be strongly hesitant if there was not a fantastic LRAP at the school I was attending.</p>
<p>I’m typically one of the more positive posters on here, but the one thing we all can agree on is people should at least make an informed decision before going to law school.</p>
<p>Ummm - there have been some threads over the last few years on how to succeed in law school, and how to pick the best school. Someone has to ask the question before it can be answered. </p>
<p>Just as with T-L-S, you’d get opinions from a range of people. Some of the advice could be useful, and some will not be. (And yes, there are a few people who will reiterate to any question that law school is always a bad choice). As with any forum, there may be some really dumb answers from people who think they’re being funny. T-L-S has a full quota of those posters too. You may get fewer answers here though, since CC has a different range of people. I find it very interesting. I’ve been using CC for all of my kids for almost 8 years now. I keep telling myself it’s time to stop now that my last kid just went off to college, but I find myself checking out the law forum to see if I can offer anything that might be useful. </p>
<p>Honestly, I don’t make this stuff up. I also have a kid in a pharmacy school. They’re being told that the market for pharmacists is starting to show signs of tightening, after a history of 100% employment for new grads. My pharmacy kid is slightly freaked. His brother in law school is not sympathetic.</p>
<p>Absolutely, and I would give the same advice for just about anything. Before you take out large amounts of non-dischargeable loans for professional schooling, you need to make sure that (1) your job prospects are excellent (not just good, but excellent); and (2) your are reasonably confident that you want to practice the profession in question.</p>
<p>Why exactly is it stupid about this? Sounds to me like you resent this forum because people are saying stuff you don’t want to hear. </p>
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<p>I’m one of the people who enjoys being an attorney. However, I graduated law school with 50k in debt which meant that I was free to quit BIGLAW and hang a shingle.</p>
<p>My D is the lawyer-to-be in our family, and she enjoys law school, the things she has studied, the friends she has made, and the prospects for what she will do post-school (though OCI was ridiculously stressful). So, I think there are many positive things about going to law school simply because of her experiences. However, it is absolutely true that this industry is being rocked by monumental changes, as are many other fields being radically affected by globalization and technological change. </p>
<p>Here is one more thing to think about from today’s NY Times.</p>
<p>As a very happy practicing lawyer who has posted on this board for several years now (though quite a bit less recently), I think you can find some very valuable information here about the things that several other websites out there cover (preparing for the LSAT, succeeding in law school, choosing a law school) and several things that they don’t typically discuss (what is it like to actually practice law, different fields of law, the hiring and job markets when you are interviewing as a law student and thereafter). Unfortunately, many of the horror stories are all too real. I see it day in and day out, in the resumes of law students looking for their first jobs, young attorneys who have been working as contract lawyers or in other fields while applying for their first attorney positions and experienced attorneys who have lost their jobs. I can understand why you would want to believe that the stories are “clearly” exaggerated, but in my experience, the realities are sometimes worse than anything that I could think up. </p>
<p>Feel free to take what is said here with a grain of salt (as I believe you should do with any anonymous postings on websites). However, there are many experienced attorneys who do post here more or less regularly, and over the years, I have found their statements and opinions to be valuable (even when I have not agreed with them). It is up to you to decide what information you should take to heart.</p>
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<p>I have to assume you haven’t been here for long. There have been many threads over the years where practicing attorneys have described the pros and cons of their jobs (and there are indeed pros and cons to every job out there), with many stating that they love their jobs (or that their spouse attorneys love their jobs). </p>
<p>I will state again here that I love my job despite the very long and often unpredictable hours, the often grueling (and unreasonable) demands of my clients and the tremendous changes that are altering this profession. I love that as an attorney, I face new and difficult challenges in my work every day, I work closely with others in many different fields to find innovative ways to solve problems and I make a nice living that enables me to support my family and to help out my parents. I don’t like that I have to work this entire weekend (once again), at least 12-14 hours each day, I have to cancel my dinner plans with friends tonight and I will be exhausted come Monday. That is simply the nature of being in a client service industry. </p>
<p>You are entitled to your opinion of this forum, but I think your generalizations about the information here sweep too broadly. I, and I believe many others here, mean only to help aspiring attorneys enter this profession with their eyes open.</p>