College with a baby

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm not anti-Catholic in the least. I called myself Catholic until quite recently, actually, and I was raised Catholic. I have friends now at Notre Dame, Boston College, and Holy Cross (as well as some other Catholic and Christian colleges), and I know more alums than I can count. I don't think it's off-base to at least consider the fact that students at Catholic colleges may be more socially conservative than, say, students at a state flagship, and a teenager with a toddler may be able to find better atmospheres for making friends with peers at other types of schools. </p>

<p>(In my post, by the way, I was speaking only about the Catholic colleges already mentioned--Notre Dame, Boston College, Holy Cross, and Georgetown.)</p>

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<p>OP, first and foremost, I want to join the other posters who have expressed their admiration for both you and your daughter. You both have a lot to be proud of. </p>

<p>I want to add to this discussion that if your daughter decides to stay in Oregon, do not discount some of the smaller state schools and community colleges. Southern Oregon University (SOU) in Ashland, a wonderful town, was mentioned in the New York Times earlier this year as a "hidden gem". If your daughter is in a hurry to complete her degree, SOU has a three year BA program - with the AP credits that she is/has taken, this would be really easy. Eastern Oregon University in La Grande is also a nice school. </p>

<p>Most, if not all, of Oregon's community colleges offer the AAOT degree (AA Oregon Transfer Degree), which guarantees an easy transfer to a four year state institution (including OSU and U of O) and completion of lower division requirements. Community colleges in Oregon such as Blue Mountain CC, Chemeketa CC, and Rogue CC, offer a variety of programs in nice campuses (I know, I used to work for one and was on an advisory board for another).
I wish you and your daughter the best and I want to tell you that your post has inspired me.</p>

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<p>I would like to weigh with a perspective as a "mom of a mom" about parenting. A friend said to me once that she thinks we all are inherently selfish until we are parents. As a grandmother, it has been very rewarding to watch my child parent my grandchild. My "judgment" of the quality of her parenting has more to do with the commitment, patience, and love she shows in her interactions than whether she herself handles all the details of physical care-giving. Certainly there have always been well-to-do families with wonderful parents where others did the physical care-giving. How different is this from a grandmother caring for a grandchild while the daughter works, goes to school, finishes her own preparations for responsible adulthood? Many would judge a woman harshly whose husband has taken over the primary parenting/nurturing duties, does this mean the mother is a bad mother? Many versions of family and love give a child what is needed. There is no such thing as too many people involved in loving and raising a child. </p>

<p>There seems to be a ideal that parenting requires pain and sacrifice, just to prove the point of good parenting. The most important proof is the commitment to the child's well-being and future, as well as the present needs, and the priorities the parent has as decisions are made. Certainly loving parenting makes one vulnerable to pain in a whole new way, but it is the potential for pain rather than the fact of it which provides the proof. </p>

<p>If the OP says her daughter is a good mother, I believe her, and my vision of what she is reporting is the kind of dedication and focus her daughter has in her interactions with her child and her plans for their future.</p>

<p>All of this is beside the point of OP's entreaty to us at CC, and I hope that she has found support and help for herself and her family.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I don't think it's off-base to at least consider the fact that students at Catholic colleges may be more socially conservative than, say, students at a state flagship, and a teenager with a toddler may be able to find better atmospheres for making friends with peers at other types of schools.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't think it's anti-Catholic to say that a Catholic (or any conservative Christian like Bob Jones or BYU) college would likely have a higher percentage of religiously/socially conservative students. Undoubtedly there would be many open-minded people there as well, but the ratio might be overall more conservative than at many other schools. For example, TX A&M has more conservatives than UT. UT has more people with tattoos & piercings. Both schools have plenty of both types, but the ratios are different. That's just part of the demographics, and demographics should be considered as one of many important factors.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Certainly loving parenting makes one vulnerable to pain in a whole new way, but it is the potential for pain rather than the fact of it which provides the proof.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oooh, I like this! Well said!</p>

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<p>One last thought before I toddle off to bed...the OP said that the guidance counselors don't quite know what to do. She was also asking "does D have to tell?" I'm sure this is an unusual case. I do think that if the OP and her daughter are going to look at the private school sector they will need to enlist the aid of the GC or GCs. Would it be out of line for the GCs to pose the issue in confidence to admissions...along the lines of "we have an exceptionally bright, statistically high, ambitious student who happens to also have a child...is your college able to accomobodate etc. etc. etc. Unless the D is at a well known and very small prep or high school it seems this footwork might be able to happen fairly confidentially and it seems if the Ds stats are accurate that the daughter would be not out of line to ask the GC for assistance. At the very least they can help weed out the schools with mandatory on-campus living and what not. It might be worthwhile once a "list" of schools is put together to "weed out" any schools off the bat who are less than willing to consider a nontraditional freshman. The OP uses the word "selective" which I'm wondering about since the term is used rather loosely.</p>

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<p>One hesitation I have about asking admissions offices, is that their purpose is to get as many kids to apply as possible. And with this young lady's stats, I would imagine that they would want to see her app and then review the situation. It is altogether possible that she is accepted at a school that is not a good choice with her situation; not a good fit. So in addition to asking admissions just how the app would be handled, there are many other things to be examined. What are the policies for on campus housing? If financial aid is needed, is there a Wellesley like situation at any other colleges? How many students are parents or married? Also, a visit should be made to see how the OP's daughter would fit in a given college. You only deal with admissions BEFORE you are accepted.</p>

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<p>'One last thought before I toddle off to bed...the OP said that the guidance counselors don't quite know what to do. She was also asking "does D have to tell?"</p>

<p>If a college would reject the D because she is a mother, that's a college the D would definitely not have been happy at anyway. Seems that's a good reason for the D to say on her apps that she has a baby.</p>

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<p>I also agree that the D should be forthright about her situation. Although not unique, it is also somewhat unusual. I do not think that adcoms are so desperate for applicants that they would mislead her as to her admissibility or the possibility for flexibility regarding housing and other issues. So either the GCs or the D or mom could enquire about housing options, child care and other issues even before applying. No need to waste an application on a college that is inflexible and unwelcoming.
Since the OP will follow her D, housing costs are a concern. The Boston area has many colleges, Catholic or otherwise, that might be a good fit for the D, but housing costs are very high. I think ND or Holy Cross would be better from that point of view. Colleges in the Pacific NW would also likely be less expensive. I still like the idea of the D attending Reed as it is a great school in a great town. University of Washington could also be a great option if housing costs in Seattle are manageable.</p>

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<p>I haven't had a chance to read this entire thread yet, but I am a tad perplexed, and find myself scratching my head just a bit. Lets see-- since the Nov. 2007 scores haven't been released yet, this would mean this student took the SAT's as a 14 yr old sophomore in Nov. of her soph. yr and got near perfect scores in Nov. of her soph year? I suppose stranger things have happened, but I am just a little skeptical of all this. If it is a true story, more power to her, but somehow I find myself wondering if the OP is writing an expose on what happens to the smart girl who gets pregnant vs. the smart boy who becomes a dad in terms of their college options. Interesting essay topic, IMO!! OK-- flame away if you must, but this has me wonderin'..... Am I the only one with questions about this???</p>

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<p>JYM:</p>

<p>The Nov. SAT scores are available on the web as of Nov. 20. Paper score reports will be sent out Nov. 30. The OP started the thread on Nov. 25.</p>

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<p>Holy cow Marite! The Nov. 3 test scores are ALREADY available on line?? 3 weeks later??? Maybe this is a veiled CB ad to pay to view scores online!! LOL!</p>

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<p>Test Date / Scores by Web/ Paper Scores Begin Mailing
October 6, 2007/ October 25, 2007 / November 2, 2007
November 3, 2007 / November 20, 2007/ November 30, 2007
December 1, 2007 / December 20, 2007/ December 31, 2007
January 26, 2008 / February 14, 2008 / February 25, 2008
March 1, 2008 / March 20, 2008 / March 28, 2008
May 3, 2008 / May 22, 2008 / June 2, 2008
June 7, 2008 / June 26, 2008/ July 7, 2008</p>

<p>Note: Scores from the October and November SAT administrations are sent by two-day priority delivery to colleges for Early Decision/Early Action (ED/EA) program consideration. Most colleges accept October and November scores for ED/EA programs. Please check with specific colleges to understand when SAT scores need to be received to meet application deadlines. Additional score release dates will be provided in late summer.</p>

<p>SAT</a> Scores: View and Send Your SAT Scores</p>

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<p>For those who have expressed concerns about this girl not having the typical college life, and therefore having that 'paraded' in front of her everyday might be painful, I'd challenge you to consider that her life is already like that - and has been like that since she got pregnant. I doubt she does the kinds of things many high school kids do, and full well knows her college experience won't be like her peers. For a student to earn the kinds of statistics as the OP's daughter has, she has to love learning, be motivated, and stay focused. She should be rewarded for those characteristics, whether she has a baby or not, by attending a school that is a good fit for her.</p>

<p>When daughter is ready to narrow down her list of schools, I think some preliminary phone calls to the school could be in order. I'd be truthful and frank right up front and say something like, "My daughter has expressed some interest in your school, based on ___<em>. She has some pretty impressive statistics and is interested in studying chemistry (or whatever the daughter is interested in at that point... in a year it may change). But she has a _</em>-month old child, and she's only interested in putting the effort into applications at school that will truly value her for what she has to offer the school. How do you see your school being able to do that, if her qualifications are within your guidelines for admissions? And by the way, since I will probably be relocating with her to help with child care, any information you can give me about how I might best be able to guide her, would be helpful."</p>

<p>At that point, it will truly be up to the OP to trust her gut instinct on how the adcom replies. If their words say one thing, but their attitude says another, reconsider. I might even ask if there are any adcoms at the particular school who have experience in working with young, single moms, and ask if you can be put in touch with that person. If you get negative vibes from one person, it may be a fluke, and I'd ask again to speak with someone else. If you get negative vibes with more than one person, I'd cross that school of the list. I agree with the poster who said you don't want to be somewhere (much less utilize all the needed resources) where you aren't welcome and valued for who you are.</p>

<p>I think the key here is going to require several gut checks along the way. OP wants her daughter at a school that will value her for who she is, and appreciate the gifts she has to bring to the school. The only way to do that is to ask the hard questions and trust your instincts on how they answer them.</p>

<p>One last thought, I would ask the adcoms (or whoever) if they could put you in touch (with permission, of course) with other young, single mothers on campus and talk with them about their experience. College costs a lot of money, and you have a right to information that will allow you to discern whether or not a place is a good fit.</p>

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<p>I agree with being up-front, Teriwtt, but I think the daughter/applicant should be the one making that call, especially the initial one.</p>

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<p>I was thinking more along the lines of after the daughter and mother have come up with a preliminary list. Either one can make the call, but I was thinking more along the lines of preliminary information, like getting the name of the most appropriate adcom to work with, then the daughter can take it from there. I think it would be appropriate for the daughter to speak with other single mothers on that campus, not the mother. When D2 was considering schools for musical theatre, which is a whole 'nother animal, and the admissions process is so much different than other academic programs, I made some initial weeding out phone calls just to see if we wanted to keep a school on the list or not. That being said, I'm home a lot during the day, when it's more convenient to reach these offices, than my daughter who was forever at school for practices, rehearsals, etc. </p>

<p>When you're needing specific information unique to an individual, often times someone has to call you back, and I can guarantee that, had it relied on my daughter being home, those return phone calls would have never happened. I think it's completely appropriate for the mother to do some preliminary research, IF it's OK with the daughter. With this girl, as focused as she is, she may prefer to do it herself, but the logistics will be much more difficult if she's a junior in high school (depending on whether or not she can take lunches off campus or not).</p>

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<p>Jym, I realize that we have solved the problem of the Nov. 2007 test scores, but I'm curious about her math -- since the d. is now age 16 and a junior, then if the OP had been referring to scores from the previous Nov... that would make the kid then a 15 year old sophomore -- extrapolating back from the age of the child, a likely not-yet-pregnant 15 year old. So where'd you come up with 14 & freshman? This is the 2nd case of weird math on this thread -- early on someone had the kid sexually active at 14 for what must have been the world's longest pregnancy. </p>

<p>I realize its a trivial matter, but there seems to be some sort of underlying bias that is leading people to jump to some odd conclusions. </p>

<p>Anyway... I think it would be better to stick to the facts as presented rather than surmising all sorts of stuff about the family and the girl's history. They have to live in the here and now, which includes the baby -- and it is a legitimate question to raise. She's not the first brainy woman on earth to reproduce (fortunately)-- it certainly makes sense for mom & daughter to explore the best possible options no matter what they decide upon a year from now.</p>

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<p>I keep thinking how cool it will be that she'll be a college graduate with a child old enough to enter public school fulltime. So that helps with the daycare issue when she's trying to find her first job after college. All the toddling/preschool years will be a thing of the past.</p>

<p>The grandma is fortunate to have good health and wise to invest heavily in this situation during the next 5 or 6 years, to ensure a solid longterm future for her D and grandchild.</p>

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<p>calmom--
Sorry for the typo- I meant to say she would be a 15 yr old sophomore (she is now a 16 yr old junior, right? ). I never said anything about her being a freshman. Its a typo, not a bias. And Marite, I am certainly glad to see the CB has picked up the pace making test scores available. Still... I am still finding my radar up-- Certainly could be wrong. Its happened before. So the baby is born in.. August (math correct this time, I think) and little school is missed pre, peri or postpartum due to the timing of the birth. As I said, if this is true, more power to her. I'd like to see the dad step up to the plate and pitch in. Has he been mentioned in the thread yet? (repeating-- I haven't read it all yet.. will hope to do so). I just expressed some skepticism, not bias.</p>

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<p>Um, I find it rather disturbing that some posters are making quick judgments. We don't know her situation. And lots of children have sex, sorry to break the bubble. At least her daughter was brave enough to go through with the pregnancy. Yeah, the OP can't follow the daughter forever, but she wants her child to get the rare opportunity for an education. Many people do not get such a chance. Also, with a BA the girl will later have a better chance to support her own baby. I do suspect that the OP is doing a large percentage of the mothering, but, again, we don't know the whole situation.</p>

<p>Mom2amom, I know FOR SURE that Smith College has accepted a student with a child. She lived in separate housing, but she was clearly accepted. Also, the other students were very open and sweet to the student and even very good with her toddler. The app may ask if she has a child, but I can't remember. Also, I'd be surprised if Mount Holyoke College didn't have a similar attitude toward women with children. </p>

<p>Someone mentioned Carleton, but I would think twice. I'm not positive, but I think that Carleton may not allow students to have cars, ever. Maybe they would grant an exception, since she has a child... I just wouldn't want her to be stuck in a situation where she needed to run out to buy diapers or (God forbid) run to the ER, but couldn't get there quickly.</p>

<p>Also, unless you can afford housing in Manhattan, it might be difficult to attend Barnard. Commuting can be rough on a student, even if just from Queens or the Bronx. With a baby, it would be much harder. Also, Barnard is one of those colleges where it is a little harder to make friends, because students scatter into the city rather than stick to campus activities. I have a feeling that a school with a tighter community would be better. In that setting, motherhood is less likely to keep her from making many friends, IMO.</p>

<p>My advice is to choose a school known for being a little more liberal. Maybe it is my east coast bias speaking, but I think that adcoms at liberal schools will be more likely to be open to different kinds of applicants and histories.</p>

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<p>I only read the first three or so pages of this thread, and I have a few things to add.</p>

<p>First of all, I feel for your daughter and I completely agree with what you are doing. I had a pregnancy scare a few months ago after a very bad decision with an ex-boyfriend. It was a mistake fueled by depression and hormones and I was your classic example of the golden girl: 36 ACT, 4.0 Unweighted GPA, tons of ECs, etc. Luckily, I was not pregnant, but I know how hard it would have been and it definitely taught me a lesson. I agree with what you are doing for her: caring for both the baby and your daughter. By helping her now, she will be able to give her daughter a better standard of living in the future. </p>

<p>Also, in regards to the college situation, I definitely think it is best for her to compromise. I don't think she should go to a ultra-uber competitive school like the ivy's. The kids that she will be dealing with there will probably look down upon the situation and she'll be too busy to have time for her child. In addition, it would be stupid to go to a CC when she has the grades, scores, and support needed to make it at a better university. Her best bet is to go to a large, decent school that will give her significant merit money and financial aid. With a large student body, her situation will have less of a social stigma and will be easier to handle. Plus, with the money saved on college expenses, more money can be spent on childcare and preparation for a post college life. </p>

<p>Feel free to PM me if you would like to talk more about my suggestions. Your daughter seems like a great girl and someone that I would love to be friends with. =)</p>