Columbia engineering school cares less about low SAT verbal?

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Some one told me that Columbia Fu foundation school of engineering cares less about low SAT verbal than the Columbia college does. Is that true? Even if so, I see that in general, the SAT verbal in average at the engineering school is significantly higher than the average at the Columbia college....</p>

<p>Even if the engineering school cares "less" about low SAT verbal, will an applicant with a 590 SAT verbal score have any chance?
I already applied as a domestic green card holder, and I think maybe they know that I am a non native English speaker since I take the subject IB English A2 instead of A1, but that depends on how well Columbia engineering school understands about IB.</p>

<p>Please help</p>

<p>thank you</p>

<p>the short answer to your question is yes, its true that SEAS cares less about SAT verbal than the college.</p>

<p>specifically though...</p>

<p>how long have you been in the US? I'm guessing that if you have a green card you have been here for at least 5 years. I think it was a mistake to take English A2 instead of A1...and they understand the IB very well and are aware that A2 is a joke at most schools and you should probably be at the standard A1 level. Also what is your writing score and are you eligible to take the TOEFL? If the answers to those questions are low and no respectively then thats not good.</p>

<p>well, my writing is 630 (a nine on essay).</p>

<p>btw, I haven't been in US for very long. In fact, I am one of the lucky few who got the green card really early like many many years ago, which does not disqualify, even if I don't reside in US. I got the green card since I had many relatives in US.</p>

<p>In fact, A2 is not that less hard than A1, but just less work load.</p>

<p>Besides, in theory, TOEFL is optional for me, since I've in a school where English is the primary mean of instruction for at least 5 years. That is, I came to this international school in Europe when I was like 12, and learning English from scratch.</p>

<p>I could've taken A1, but I took Chinese A1 instead.</p>

<p>Of course, while I am explaining all this on CC, I think maybe Columbia will figure this out by themselves.</p>

<p>Any more idea???</p>

<p>btw, I didn't take the TOEFL since I was expecting 650 on reading, but for some reason my actual SAT grade usually is lower than the what I'd predicted for the January test.</p>

<p>Any way, I assumed that Columbia engineering can pardon my reading score when they see my A2 and therefore know that I am a nonnative speaker....</p>

<p>BTW, when I was starting to learn English 6 years ago at this international school, I also had to learn other European languages like Dutch and French at the same time, using English. As a result, sometimes I confused them altogether and it took me some more years to clarify each of them discretely. Of course, I didn't mention about this in my application since there's no space. Do you think this information is worth faxing?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Any way, I assumed that Columbia engineering can pardon my reading score when they see my A2 and therefore know that I am a nonnative speaker....

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's a wrong assumption; had it been true, most international students needn't have had very good SAT scores. Also, if you've been living in the US for as long as you claim, your knowledge of the English language is expected to be good.</p>

<p>Columbia might actually be a bit tougher with the SAT verbal than other engineering schools (i.e. MIT, Caltech). I'm basing that on the fact that Columbia emphasizes the core curriculum very strongly. Perhaps they make allowances for international students, but I assume that Columbia's verbal and writing standards are likely higher than pure engineering colleges.</p>

<p>yea i think a 590 is way too low....it's certainly going to hurt you....im sure engineering needs strong critical reading skills</p>

<p>Allowances for International students might've been one of their measures, but looking at the number of Int'l applicants with 2300+ SATs, I don't think the need arises.</p>

<p>hmm, thanks for all the responses.</p>

<p>
[quote]
That's a wrong assumption; had it been true, most international students needn't have had very good SAT scores. Also, if you've been living in the US for as long as you claim, your knowledge of the English language is expected to be good.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, I never claim that I live in the US. I am Green Card holder but I never live in the US. Ha!</p>

<p>Btw, I am not international admission wise. Since I apply with my green card, I am considered a domestic.</p>

<p>Please read my previous two posts and answer questions in them carefully.</p>

<p>Thank you very much!!!</p>

<p>^ In that case you're relatively better off. But it ultimately comes doen to how unique your application is, as there's no shortage of 2300+ Int'l kids.</p>

<p>thanks for your response gouchicago..</p>

<p>However, probably you guys read my posts too fast and so miss my question:

[quote]
BTW, when I was starting to learn English 6 years ago at this international school, I also had to learn other European languages like Dutch and French at the same time, using English. As a result, sometimes I confused them altogether and it took me some more years to clarify each of them discretely. Of course, I didn't mention about this in my application since there's no space. Do you think this information is worth faxing?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>please help</p>

<p>thx a lot</p>

<p>Well, most decisions would've been taken by now, so you better hurry. There's nothing to lose, so just go ahead and fax it.</p>

<p>"will an applicant with a 590 SAT verbal score have any chance?"</p>

<p>yes, but the 590 hurts chances, given that english is not your native language, and that they see you taking chinese A1 and english A2, if the rest of your application is very strong they'd be willing to pardon a 590.</p>

<p>"Do you think this information is worth faxing?"</p>

<p>absolutely not, they'll realise that english is not our first language, it comes off as an excuse for an inability of yours, it's also FAR too late to be faxing any such thing, the decisions are probably already in stone, and if they are not, something this small is not going to make a difference at all, it might just annoy them. you wanting to fax it is a problem that most applicants have, you get nervous and begin to focus on minutia, thinking that these insignificant changes are going to make a difference. just sit tight and wait for decisions, you knowing an extra language doesn't suddenly explain to them why you'll fit in and will be able to cope at columbia, if the rest of your app hasn't already done so.</p>

<p>ehhh I have a 500...</p>

<p>Ayssenseiter, are you applying to the Fu foundation engineering school or the Columbia College?</p>

<p>engineering school with 103 TOEFL</p>

<p>well here's the bottom line</p>

<p>i dont think applying as a "domestic" helps you at all and would actually hurt you since your being compared to americans rather than international students from your own country</p>

<p>if you are applying as an american they expect you to know english and you don't know english at an acceptable level.</p>

<p>yes, A2 is easier than A1...the difference between standard and higher level is less work but the difference between A2 and A1 is that A2 is easier. </p>

<p>I got in with a 610 on the verbal section and a friend of mine did too but we both had 700+ on the writing section and good grades in english class (i took IB standard level A1)....yes, english is my first language but a low score on verbal with everything else high can be overlooked but low scores in verbal and writing and A2 english is not really helping you at all.</p>

<p>Shraf, there's no better place to put this, so:</p>

<p>it's good to have you back. You add a lot to this forum that we wouldn't otherwise have.</p>

<p>hope CU grad school's treating you well, drop me a line sometime if you want to play poker.</p>

<p>Thanks denz.... grad school is going great....unfortunately we don't play poker nearly as much anymore but i'll definitely keep you in mind next time</p>

<p>Shraf, I meant if you wanted to join some $40 buyin or $100 buyin house games. Give me a holler.</p>