Columbia relationship

Colleges and Universities A-Z Barnard College
81

<p>The problem is that zzgirl can’t accept that Barnard is “part of” Columbia. That’s why I suggest that she consult a dictionary for the definition of “affiliated”. Her argument sounds to me like arguing that the sky cannot possibly be blue, because it’s cyan. So she’s either being willfully obtuse in order to promote her personal agenda (which I think stems from jealousy or resentment) – or else it really is a language problem.</p>

82

<p>It’s kind of funny to see how people play semantic games.</p>

83

<p>[Barnard</a> College - Columbia Alumni Association Picnic](<a href=“http://alum.barnard.edu/s/1133/index.aspx?sid=1133&gid=1&pgid=356&cid=1050&ecid=1050&crid=0&calpgid=61&calcid=823]Barnard”>http://alum.barnard.edu/s/1133/index.aspx?sid=1133&gid=1&pgid=356&cid=1050&ecid=1050&crid=0&calpgid=61&calcid=823)</p>

84

<p>The phrase “Barnard College of Columbia University” appears, I believe, above the front gate of Barnard College.</p>

85

<p>

</p>

<p>Well, its the semantic equivalent of arguing that Washington, D.C. is not part of the United States, because the District of Columbia isn’t a state. Funny as a running gag on The Colbert Report… but it is funny precisely because it is ridiculous.</p>

86

<p>D.C. analogy is a good one, Calmom!</p>

<p>BTW, we are moving our Barnard alum daughter into her apartment this weekend in preparation for her starting grad school in the fall!! No more schlepping all her stuff up to NYC…kinda sad, really.</p>

87

<p>kmhuether, I believe that in the 5 year SIPA program you receive the B.A. after 4 years and the M.A. after 5. </p>

<p>calmom, yes it’s ridiculous. The world is full of complex relationships, and most people learn to live with nuances. That’s often what makes life interesting.</p>

<p>zzgirl, you insist insist that there is absolutely no aspect of Barnard that is “part of” Columbia. You’re so terribly wrong. They constitute an integrated academic enterprise, even though they have separate trustees and legal structures. This is not altogether different from the way the various federal universities of Britain and Europe operate. The various colleges at Oxford and Cambridge, for example, are completely independent of one another and responsible for tutoring, libraries and housing of their respective students, with the university providing for examinations, degree granting and common administration. I think if you look at the Columbia University Statutes, you’ll see a very clear “academic” integration of Barnard into the University, notwithstanding their separate legal standing. For example, the Barnard faculty is listed as a University faculty (articles 24(b), 30 and 233), the President of Barnard is a dean of the University (article 231), and Barnard is represented at all levels in the Columbia University Senate (articles 20 and 232). And it should be noted that a current Vice Chair of the Columbia University Board of Trustees is a Barnard graduate. Except for admissions, advising, residence halls, alumni affairs and participation in each college’s unique core courses (all of which are done separately, as is customary under the federal university model), it’s a consortium marked by absolute equality and cross-access for all academic, social, athetic and extracurricular activities. And every graduate of Barnard is a Columbia University degree holder, with the diploma and graduation robes to prove it. And to be clear, the Columbia University Statutes clearly provide that “The degree of bachelor of arts conferred upon the graduates of Barnard College shall be maintained at all times as a degree of equal value with the degree of bachelor of arts conferred upon the graduates of Columbia College” (articles 235 and 24(e)). That’s part of why they sit side by side at the University commencement ceremonies. Finally, let’s not forget that every “Columbia” sports team competes as part of the NCAA-approved “Barnard College-Columbia University Athletic Consortium”. I think if you look fairly at all of this, you’ll conclude that nuances like separate alumni associations (which in any event frequently hold joint functions anyway) are pretty insignificant in the big picture.</p>

88

<p>

One of the dictionary meaning is “being in lose formal association, related”
[affiliated</a> definition | Dictionary.com](<a href=“http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/affiliated]affiliated”>AFFILIATED Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com)
It does not mean that it is part of something else. </p>

<p>Barnard web site states

</p>

<p>Calmon clearly doesn’t understand what ‘separate’ and ‘independent’ means…</p>

89

<p>Columbia University Statutes states that

</p>

<p>The University Senate prescribe that

  1. Barnard Degree holders are NOT listed on the 'degrees awarded by Columbia University list
    <a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/opir/abstract/degrees%20and%20certificates%20awarded%202007-2008.htm[/url]”>http://www.columbia.edu/cu/opir/abstract/degrees%20and%20certificates%20awarded%202007-2008.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>2) Barnard degree holders can NOT join Columbia University Alumni Association ( which accepts only Columbia University degree holders)</p>

<p>3) Barnard students are NOT Columbia University students.<br>
<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/opir/abstract/enrollment%20headcount%20by%20school%2097-08.htm[/url]”>http://www.columbia.edu/cu/opir/abstract/enrollment%20headcount%20by%20school%2097-08.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>4) Columbia University registrar office has NO RECORD Of Barnard students. </p>

<p>5) Columbia Univeristy does NOT recognize Barnard as one of Columbia’s undergrad schools.
<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/prospective_students/index.html[/url]”>http://www.columbia.edu/prospective_students/index.html&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;

<p>. … etc…</p>

<p>None of Columbia web sites and official documents states that Barnard is Part of Columbia University. If you can find a link (from Columbia U) please show me… (‘affiliated with’ does not mean one belongs to another).</p>

90

<p>zzgirl, why do you care? And you mean loose, not lose.</p>

91

<p>

</p>

<p>Hint: Try reading the OTHER dictionary meanings. </p>

<p>Hint #2:: For example, “Associated, related, or united.” (emphasis added) See: [affiliated</a> - Wiktionary](<a href=“http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/affiliated]affiliated”>affiliated - Wiktionary, the free dictionary)</p>

<p>Hint #3: “a subordinate or subsidiary associate” See: [WordNet</a> Search - 3.0](<a href=“http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=affiliate]WordNet”>http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=affiliate)</p>

<p>Hint #4:: "closely associated with another typically in a subordinate or dependent relationship See: [affiliated</a> - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary](<a href=“http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affiliated]affiliated”>Affiliated Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster)</p>

<p>Sample Sentence: “Our college is an affiliate **of<a href=“=%20is%20connected%20with%20or%20controlled%20by”>/b</a> the university.” (emphasis in original) See: [Cambridge</a> Dictionaries Online - Cambridge University Press](<a href=“http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define_b.asp?key=1414&dict=CALD]Cambridge”>http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define_b.asp?key=1414&dict=CALD)</p>

<p>Synonyms: “ally, amalgamate, annex, associate, band together, combine, come aboard, confederate, connect, form connection, go partners, hook up, incorporate, join, line up, plug into, relate*, team up, throw in with, tie up, unite” See: [affiliate</a> synonym | Thesaurus.com](<a href=“http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/affiliate]affiliate”>35 Synonyms & Antonyms for AFFILIATE | Thesaurus.com)</p>

<p>English Grammar Advice: In English, the distinction between singular and plural is very important in sentence construction. If there is one thing, it is singular; if there are more than one, then the plural form is used. Hence, it is incorrect to write, “One of the dictionary meaning is”; the correct form is, “One of the dictionary meanings is”</p>

<p>(Ordinarily, out of courtesy, I would not comment adversely on the poor spelling or grammar of someone who clearly is not a native English speaker. However, since zzgirl apparently wants to debate semantics, I do think it is important to pay attention to detail. Plus, I find it really annoying to have to continually read such fractured English.)</p>

92

<p>zzgirl wrote:

</p>

<p>If you are going to quote, you need to (1) provide the full context of language that you quote, and (2) cite your source. This is very important; if you ever do get admitted to a real University in the U.S. and submit written work, you will find that many colleges, Barnard included, take academic integrity very seriously. That means if you read a sentence that says one thing, and then is followed by a second sentence that qualifies or appears in some way to contradict the meaning of the first, you have to quote the full passage or fairly summarize it. </p>

<p>Here’s the full quote from which your cherry was picked:</p>

<p>

[quote]

The partnership between Barnard College and Columbia University remains an exemplary shared commitment unique in American higher education and one that benefits students at both institutions.</p>

<p>The partnership dates back to Barnard’s founding at the turn of the last century and the conviction of Columbia’s 10th president, Frederick A. P. Barnard, that women deserved an education in New York City comparable to that received by men. Since that time, both institutions have continued to see its value, and reaffirmed and expanded the tenets of the affiliation agreement that has bound Barnard and Columbia together.</p>

<p>Barnard is an undergraduate college formally affiliated with the University. Students at each institution can take courses at the other. Barnard students receive the diploma of the University signed by the presidents of both institutions, and the College is represented in the University Senate. *At the same time, Barnard is legally separate and financially independent from the University; sets its own student fees; has a separate endowment, administration and faculty, and admissions office; and undertakes its own fund-raising. *
<a href=“emphasis%20added;%20italicized%20portion%20represents%20qualifying%20sentence%20quoted%20by%20zzgirl”>/quote</a> </p>

<p>Source: [About</a> Barnard College](<a href=“http://www.barnard.edu/about/columbia.html]About”>http://www.barnard.edu/about/columbia.html)</p>

<p>Additional notes from the same page:</p>

<p>

</p></li>
</ul>

93

<p>Mythmom wrote,

</p>

<p>zzgirl has refused to divulge any information about herself, such as age, level of education, or school attended. Based on the level of bitterness she shows, coupled with her obvious difficulty with standard English usage, I surmise that she is an international student who applied to US Colleges and Universities, including Barnard, but was rejected from all. Perhaps her anger stems from jealousy of a friend or acquaintance who were accepted to Barnard when she was turned down. </p>

<p>Of course we can only speculate, but obviously there is a strong personal motivation, and it is seems clear at this point that she has never actually visited either campus.</p>

94

<p>Of course, ‘affiliated with’ can mean many things.</p>

<p>When ‘Affiliated with’ is used in Columbia-Barnard relationship, it means ‘closely related’
because both Barnard and Columbia clearly states that “Barnard is legally separate and financially independent from the University”</p>

<p>

Yes the word “partnership” meaning one does not belong to another.<br>
ex) There is no partnership between Columbia College and CU because CC belongs to CU. BC & CU need partnership agreement becaseu BC and CU are separate. </p>

<p>

“each institution” :: meaning BC and CU are separate institution. no one uses ‘each institution’ to describe the relationship between CC and CU. </p>

<p>BC and CU are legally separate and financially independent with special agreemetn, such as cross registration, sharing faculty, atheletic consortium etc.</p>

<p>The points listed on #89 confirms that CU does NOT recognize BC as part of CU.</p>

95

<p>Note listing of Barnard on this page:
[Columbia</a> Interactive - E-Resources: Schools](<a href=“http://ci.columbia.edu/ci/eresources/schools.html]Columbia”>http://ci.columbia.edu/ci/eresources/schools.html) – following the text:</p>

<p>

[quote]
Columbia University is comprised of several distinct undergraduate and graduate schools, as well as affiliates such as Teachers College and the Seminaries. These schools are the degree-granting entities that make up the University. Discover more about the mission, history, requirements, faculty, and application procedures of each school. Get detailed information about special programs and events. Here you gain an overview of the vast and diverse intellectual community that Columbia University embodies.<a href=“emphasis%20added”>/quote</a></p>

<p>Barnard College description:

[quote]
Barnard is located just across Broadway from Columbia’s main campus and is one of four undergraduate schools within the Columbia University system.<a href=“emphasis%20added”>/quote</a></p>

96

<p>The problem that zzgirl has with the Barnard-Columbia relationship is the very close nature of it. At Occidental we had an affiliation with CalTech. They could take non-science courses at Oxy and we could take advanced sciences there. It was a ten-minute drive between campuses. Smith has a relationship with Amherst that is even more geographically undesirable. In neither case are the faculties so intertwined. In neither case are the sports teams united in the NCAA.
Zzgirl, if we picture Smith and Amherst as sister colleges, we might compare Barnard and CC/SEAS as non-identical twins. There is a lot more DNA in common, and the relationship is a lot closer. Think of Columbia University as the parent. Watch the commencement video to see President Spar stand up with the other Deans and Presidents to present her graduates to the President of the University. feed://deimos3.apple.com/WebObjects/Core.woa/Feed/columbia.edu.2133504659.02133504668
My daughter’s experience was that she was very much a part of Columbia about 90% of the time. In only 12 hrs was she in a class that a CC or SEAS student couldn’t take. This is much closer than any other affiliation in the country by an order of magnitude.</p>

97

<p>

</p>

<p>Yes I know… Barnard is part of Columbia University **SYSTEM **<br>
Columbia never says Barnard is part of Columbia University. That is why both Barnard and Columbia officials had to add the word ‘SYSTEM’
Even Barnard officials know that Barnard is not part of Columbia and was forced to say 'University System</p>

<p>Why can’t you find a single document that says Barnard is part of Columbia Univeristy ???</p>

<p>Barnard and Columbia U have very close relationship with special agreement to share
resources. (such as classes, atheletic events ). However, Barnard is legally separate and independet from Columbia University.</p>

98

<p>mardad</p>

<p>I know that Barnard and Columbia U are very close. All I am saying is that Barnard College and Columbia Univeristy is legally separate and independent from the Columbia Univeristy as shown in both Barnard College web site and Columbia U official documents… </p>

<p>

Is Occidental part of Caltech ?</p>

<p>

So you are saying that Smith is part of Amherst ??</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/opir/abstract/degrees%20and%20certificates%20awarded%202007-2008.htm[/url]”>http://www.columbia.edu/cu/opir/abstract/degrees%20and%20certificates%20awarded%202007-2008.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

99

<p>zzgirl, you seem to have Columbia College confused with Columbia University. The “University” IS the “system”. There is no way to earn a degree from Columbia University except through enrollment at one of the several colleges and schools that within the system, under the broad umbrella of the “University”. That is why the first sentence on the page I cited says, “Columbia University is comprised of several distinct undergraduate and graduate schools, as well as affiliates such as Teachers College and the Seminaries. These schools are the degree-granting entities that make up the University.”</p>

<p>I’d point out that in addition to being a Barnard parent, I happen to be a lawyer as well. When you make a statement like “Barnard College …is legally separate and independent from the Columbia University” when in fact there is a formal affiliation agreement that has been in effect for more than a century – you are showing abject ignorance. Clearly there is a contractual relationship that ties the college to the University together— the only way that Barnard could ever be “legally separate and independent” would be if the affiliation agreement were dissolved, or not renewed on its expiration.</p>

100

<p>No, I’m not saying that Oxy and CalTech are the same institution nor are Smith and Amherst, but in both cases the paired institutions are obviously separate yet affiliated. The Barnard/Columbia relationship is so very different. Our president (Oxy) did not present the graduates to the president of Caltech. The sports teams were not united. The faculties did not serve on each others senates, the presidents didn’t sign each others diplomas etc. And the one institution did not have the name of the other on the college gate. Or on the diplomas.
Affiliated yet part of the University…hmm. Perhaps this is one of those paradoxes on which the Eastern Church thrives. Or perhaps a Zen koan.</p>