I’ve just discovered this site, and I’d love an advice. We’re immigrants from Eastern Europe and were brought up to focus on academics above everything else. We weren’t pushing this so hard on my DS, but I guess it’s in the genes. He is currently a sophomore, has stellar GPA and PSAT scores, several state-level math and science awards, is a member of several STEM-oriented clubs and will do a summer research internship. So basically one of the very top kids in STEM in the state (we’re in the flyover country). His dream school is MIT, but we’re being realistic and will explore other options.
The problem is, he’s fairly shy, hasn’t done a whole lot of community service or team sports, certainly hasn’t organized a whole new charity or something and doesn’t really want to be a leader of anything. He wants to do tutoring in his school but I’m not sure it’s enough. Honestly, I’d hate making him to do any kind of service he’s not naturally attracted to just to pad his application, that just breeds cynicism, and I don’t know how he can do this on top of everything else and still get any sleep. So my questions are how important all this stuff is for math/CS/physics degrees, are there top schools that look more favorably on pure nerds as opposed to well-rounded natural-born leaders (my guess would be that MIT and other techies would lean this way more than Ivies but I don’t really know) or should he really drop everything nonessential and start piling up volunteering hours? Or try to do more serious sports (he is in good shape, just not very interested)? Or both and just forget about sleep until he’s out of college? I’d rather see him go to a second-tier school than burn out, but still I think he deserves the best (don’t we all?).
IMO attending a second-tier school (which is still excellent), not being pushed into things he has no interest in, and getting a good night’s sleep IS the best. Doing all kinds of things just to try to impress college admissions officers generally doesn’t work and your S will likely end up miserable, exhausted, and quite possibly at the same college.
Thanks, I have. It’s more than a little vague. For example, you probably not only have to be generally nice but need to have this documented in some way. S had helped many friends with their schoolwork for years, sometimes for hours every day, but this doesn’t count I guess, as opposed to the kids who did this officially as members of an Honor Society.
Kids with great scores and grades are a dime a dozen, virtually everyone applying to the top schools bring those with them. A kid that only makes good grades and does nothing else should make good grades because if that is all they are doing, they have plenty of time to do so. Meaning, straight A’s aren’t so hard if you don’t do anything else. Kids with real genius do more, they have a need to. If a student isn’t contributing to anyone or anything else except themselves, who is served by that? Not their future college, meaning, they won’t be too interested in a one dimensional person. I would lose the idea of a dream school immediately, that is your biggest danger moving forward. Have a few choices at various levels of attainment.
As I said, he’s been helping a lot of people to study, plus doing some serious science research, plus other extracurricular activities he’s passionate about, does this sound like nothing else?
Honestly, I’d hate making him to do any kind of service <<<<<<<<
The cynicism isn't so much from the US kids who do service from the get go, as it is from the non US parents who think service is just for college. When I was a kid in school (in the UK) we did all sorts of stuff that had no name, it wasn't called volunteering or service, it just WAS. Encourage him to find something that he can do independently of school, beyond the popularity contest of NHS groups and key clubs. It should be something that brings him perspective and a broader world view. It doesn't have to be tons of time. Try volunteermatch. Avoid the usual tropes like libraries, food banks, humane society. Use his mad skills. Find your local title one schools, they might have after school stuff he can help with now and then, they might have summer programs he can contribute to. If you are disparaging of volunteering, he will be also. My kids do stuff outside of school and don't even join NHS once we saw how it worked. Kids here start their first service project in grade 6 so no one stands out unless they are doing something stellar, it is just the norm and that is OK.
That doesn’t sound like nothing else to me. If he regularly tutors other students, he can certainly list that as an activity - not everything has to be formal or through an organization. It sounds like he’s busy as it is and is involved with things he’s passionate about. Whether that’s enough to get into a top tier school - who knows? Their acceptance rates are so low that it’s a crap shoot for everyone. I wouldn’t advise picking up an activity you’re not interested in to try to impress a school that is more likely than not to reject you anyway.
Don’t encourage your kid to waste time on volunteer work or sports (if he doesn’t have an inclination or talent). He apparently is highly intelligent and accomplished academically. Grades and test scores are >> 50% of what is needed to get into a superior college. What’s missing is a “story” that illustrates his talents. What is he interested in? What activities – academic and otherwise – would allow him to apply his talent and develop more skills, even some products, and perhaps gain some external recognition of his talent. What does he do for hobbies? How does he spend his own time when he’s not doing school work? Does he try to create or invent things? How does he apply his skills in computing or science outside the classroom?
In his sophomore year in high school, my son became interested in debate (policy debate), and by senior year he became a state champion debater. This also helped to slake his competitive spirit, promoted teamwork, deepened his research skills. He also started working for the school newspaper. Journalism allowed him to do some writing for which he won statewide awards in his senior year. These were activities that truly engaged him, and that ended up laying groundwork for his college and for his working life after college.
In other words, rather than just joining “clubs” and spending time on things to pile up “service hours,” he used his talents to achieve distinction outside the classroom. He wasn’t athletic; he wasn’t musically inclined. But he was productive. Journalism and debate fit well with other academic activity. Your son could look for activities that would draw on and also further develop his particular strengths in math or CS. Find projects. Create something.
Sybylla I’m certainly not disparaging of volunteering, I’m only disparaging of volunteering as a means to get to college instead of a means to help people. A couple years ago he wanted to do official tutoring but only NHS kids were allowed to do this at his school, and when he applied to NHS he wasn’t accepted, probably because he hasn’t shown much leadership ability. He was fairly pissed over this.
NHS is irrelevant, it is the opposite of my point. Don’t fit in the norms, find his own path, but whatever, the thing is now it looks like it is about college, as he is practically a rising junior.
If he puts together a strong application and presents his strengths and genuine talents and interests, he will find options open to him. Bet there nt to worry about “tiers”. There are many fabulous schools out there.
Thanks everyone, this is close to what I’ve been thinking. Any insights on what schools may be more “nerdish” than others? Not that we have to decide now.
@yucca being nice can be documented (post #4) - your son will need letters of recommendation from teachers who know him well. This is where the teachers will write about the time he stayed after class to answer another students question, the way he suggests another way to learn the material and suddenly it clicks for the kid sitting next to him… Being nice, being a leader, ( or any other quality) is weaved throughout the whole application- not just in a list of activities. The same holds through for the essays that he will write. The stories he tells through the essays will show the kind of person he is. For example- leadership will be showed when he tells the story of organizing the school pep rally and all of the obstacles he faced, kindness will be displayed when he talks about how he has been reading to preschoolers every month for the past 4 years ( I am just making this stuff up but you understand the point).
There are a lot of “nerd” schools. There are also schools that I call “eclectic.” My daughter attends one of those schools and she is also a “nerd.”
@yucca10 I have not read all of the comments, but I wanted to respond anyway. My son attends Yale where he studies science. He did very little community service in HS. I believe it is important to have more than just top grades, but it doesn’t have to be service. If your son has won big science awards and is already doing research, that’s great. Does he have a chance to get published? That would be impressive. I do think the top schools look for leadership or some evidence of impact. If he tutors, it could come from that. His letters of recommendation and essays will also be important. I guess the main point is that while the top schools will want more than just top grades and scores, the something extra doesn’t have to include lots of service hours. I wouldn’t force that if it’s not something natural for him to do. Then it just looks forced or insincere. Stick with his strengths and interests and try to make an impact there. Good luck!
My eldest son graduated from MIT. His main essay was about service/tutoring. He worked as a tutor in many capacities including helping friends, fellow athletes and paid work at Mathnasium. It’s who he was and is. Now, he was extremely extroverted and energetic, and did a gazillion other things, but what floats his boat is people, and that’s what he wrote about.
OP, let your son tell his own unique “story” whatever that is. (But PS. As a college consultant, I encourage kids not to have “dream” schools; my own kids didn’t, even though they got into quite a few top schools. Easier said than done, I realize, but it might save kids a lot of angst if they can go into college application season with the realistic understanding that getting into a top school is REALLY TOUGH.)
Is there some organization outside of NHS that provides tutoring? Are there kids in your community that he could tutor in math or science (for a low fee or volunteer) this summer? What are his summer plans?
To me giving back to the community in some way is of value in and of itself, regardless of the college application. However, a kid that is not so inclined or doesn’t have the time may not be able to do so at this point in his life.
It sounds like he is very involved in a number of activities. I would focus on what interests him, not on some activity that boosts his resume.
My older son was a bit like your son. He had no interest in sports and very little in community service. I made him volunteer at the community center one summer. He helped program schedules and basically hung out in the computer lab and helped old people read their email. He did it about half time which left plenty of time for other projects. At some point he also helped out a med school professor with a program to analyze proteins and he may have stuck that in the community service box as well. That work ended up being mentioned in a paper.
His two in school ECs were Science Olympiad and Academic Team. (Both teams were quite successful the years he was involved.) Outside of school he did a bunch of computer related stuff including working freelance during the summers and part time during the school year. I was actually more worried that he wouldn’t look like a team player than his lack of leadership. If he likes tutoring I’d have him highlight that, I wouldn’t force him to do something that he will hate.
MIT and Caltech rejected him, but he got into Harvard and Carnegie Mellon (School of Computer Science) and got merit money offers at RPI and WPI. He loved CMU.
Neither of my kids did NHS, they felt it was just an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy and extra meetings they didn’t want t go to.
In addition to MIT - University of Rochester, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Rochester Institute of Technology, Case Western, Cal Poly, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Olin, Rose-Hulman, Reed, Swarthmore, Carnegie Mellon, Colorado School of Mines, Rice, UChicago, Harvey Mudd, Carleton.