Convince me to come to Dartmouth...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Dartmouth College
41

<p>Believe me, I don’t. I was valedictorian, took college classes while in high school, and got a scholarship to go to UVa. In fact, though I visited many schools, UVa was the only I college I applied to. I fell in love the first day I laid eyes on it.</p>

<p>I’m sorry if I’m getting you guys all riled up. I’m just being a good UVa alum by defending my school. I guess I just get irritated when people (like Slipper1234) make such a big deal about reputation (especially when your business rep is tied more to Dartmouth’s grad school than undergrad). Again, WE’RE HERE TRYING TO HELP HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS PICK THE BEST UNDERGRADUATE SCHOOL IF THEY ARE INTERESTED IN BUSINESS. Please don't get it twisted. Furthermore, perception is not always the reality. A school may have a great reputation (and I mean any school – I’m not just referring to UVa or Dartmouth), but does its grads really live up to the hype? Have they learned the skills (like business know-how) that companies more and more demand…along w/ strong analytical skills and a good foundation in the liberal arts? A great rep may get you in the door, but you still have to prove yourself once inside. </p>

<p>Besides, like I said I think there are far more important things in life than reputation…like what a school does for the community and the world. For example, UVa leads mid-sized universities when it comes to producing Peace Corps volunteers, and the school provides over 400 services and programs local residents throughout Virginia…either free or very inexpensively.</p>

<p>My point about the endowments is not about how large each school’s endowment is. Who cares really? I trying to elucidate a point that a school's reputation doesn't necessarily equate success. Also, my missive was also about the success of the schools’ graduates and how transformative their success is for their alma maters…especially for schools like UVa, who only 20 years ago didn’t have much of an endowment, and who depended mostly on state funding and the tuition dollars from its students for its day-to-day operations. If you look at UVa compared to other “more prestigious” schools, it’s surprising how quickly UVa has improved over that course of time, especially with its hands tied by the state’s caustic regulations. Based on reputation alone, UVa and its alums shouldn’t be this successful, but UVa grads do very well on Wall Street (and Main Street for that matter). This doesn’t mean that UVA’s gain is Dartmouth’s loss or vice versa. This is not a zero-sum game. </p>

<p>For the record, yes, Dartmouth is highly respected on Wall Street (so is UVa - that's why so many of us have jobs on Wall Street, etc. w/ an average starting salary of $50K/year...pretty good for a 21 old kid graduating from college), and yes, you will get a great general education at Big Green...yes, yes, yes! But, if you're interested studying business w/ a strong emphasis in the liberal arts, I’ll have to give my vote to Mr. Jefferson’s University – UVa.</p>

42

<p>Globalist- </p>

<p>You fail to understand that you don;t need to major in business to get a great job. 95% of business training is learned on the job. Why not learn something theoretical that teaches you critical thinking skill, if in the end you get the same or an even better job. </p>

<p>Dartmouth grads get the best jobs and perform extrodinarily - that's why they are MUCH MUCH more successful at getting into the top MBA programs for example. Dartmouth leads small universities in Peace Corps volunteers (look up the Tucker foundation - its pretty easy to get a grant for a term at Dartmouth for service) and I would say Dartmouth is one of the most service oriented schools anywhere.</p>

<p>Dartmouth's reputation has nothing to do with Tuck - I hate to say it but I think most Dartmouth alums look at their degree as stronger that Tuck's. Most of my friends only have the top 4 b-schools on their lists for example.</p>

43

<p>I know that you don't have to major in business to work in business, but having a business degree helps. Why wait until grad school to study business if you know you're interested in it now? </p>

<p>Okay, okay we'll have to agree to disagree. So be it. I'll end w/ a quote from Jefferson which I think speaks for all of us (sorry guys, I can't help it...heehee)</p>

<p>"For here [at College Confidential] we're not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is free to combat it."</p>

<p>Happy Friday!</p>

44

<p>Agreed!</p>

<p>BTW- Peace corps link (nexxt time don't argue against Dartmouth's strength's lol!)
Dartmouth College #1 for Peace Corps </p>

<hr>

<p>ALUMNI PARTICIPATION IN PEACE CORPS EARNS COLLEGE TOP RANKING
With 37 alumni now serving around the world, Dartmouth has earned the top rank in the number of Peace Corps volunteers in the small school category. Read about the experiences of one alumna in Senegal.
<a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Enews/rele...006/01/30a.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/rele...006/01/30a.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

45

<p>Hahaha...touche. </p>

<p>UVA is #1 among mid-sized schools & Dartmouth is #1 among smaller schools. Good job!</p>

46

<p>globalist. I bet you if you go to wall street now and survey 10 recruiters, at least 7 out of 10 would say Dartmouth is the better pick. The thing is undergrad students when go to work on wall street. they receive training and most of them, especially those who go to Dartmouth, are smart enough to handle those stuff. In fact, you dont have to go through a 4 year business program just to make spreadsheets and write analysis, which are the chief tasks of analysts. Quite frankly, your business undergrad degree means virtually nothing once you earn your MBA. MBA is much more important than a business undergrad degree.</p>

47

<p>Oh my God, I thought we put this to bed. If you’re going to be using numbers (i.e. “7 out of 10”), please for the benefit of all reading CC, show the data. Otherwise, it’s just conjecture. AGAIN, I WILL SAY THAT YES, DARTMOUTH IS HIGHLY RESPECTED ON WALL STREET, BUT UVA’s UNDERGRAD BUSINESS MAJORS ARE EQUALLY RESPECTED. </p>

<p>People love to talk about reputation and recruiting. Well, the end result of having a stellar reputation and recruiting is getting great jobs. So, let me present to you the facts about an education to be had at UVA’s McIntire School of Commerce. (This is no a diss on Dartmouth. I’m just trying for once to get you all to lower your Ivy League noses and give UVA its due respect):</p>

<p>FACT #1: Before graduation, 85% of McIntire students had a job, while 7% were going to grad school.</p>

<p>FACT #2: The average starting salary for a McIntire grad is $50,000 w/ an average signing bonus of $6,002 and average annual bonus of $19,000.</p>

<p>FACT #3: Business Week ranked McIntire #2 among the nations undergraduate business programs after Wharton. US News ranked it #9.</p>

<p>FACT #4: McIntire is a 2 year program covering your junior and senior years, so during your freshman and sophomore years, you can take a host of mind-broadening courses like philosophy, biology, religion, whatever, so that you can have a balanced complete undergraduate education.</p>

<p>FACT #5: McIntire is one of the top 5 feeder schools into the best MBA programs in the country according to Business Week – along w/ Wharton, Georgetown, Michigan, and Cornell.</p>

<p>FACT #6: By Fall 2007, the McIntire School will have a brand new undergraduate business complex, much of it funded by donations from its generous and successful alums.</p>

<p>FACT #7: Last year, 220 companies recruited at McIntire alone – this doesn’t include all the other companies that recruited at the Darden graduate business school, the Engineering school, etc.</p>

<p>FACT #8: Here are the companies with the most hires from last year’s class. This list doesn’t include the plethora of companies that only hired one student:</p>

<p>PriceWaterHouse Coopers: 18
Ernst & Young: 15
KPMG: 14
Deloitte: 8
JP Morgan Chase: 7
Wachovia Securities: 7
Merrill Lynch: 6
CIBC World Markets: 5
Jefferies & Company: 5
Bear, Stearns & Co: 4
Lazard: 4
MCG Capital: 4
Navigant Consulting: 4
Susquehanna International Group: 4
Accenture: 3
Banc of America Securities: 3
Beers & Cutler: 3
The Blackstone Group: 3
Booz Allen Hamilton: 3
Boston Consulting: 3
CGI-AMS: 3
Citigroup: 3
ComScore Networks: 3
Houlihan Lokey Howard & Zukin: 3
Lehman Brothers: 3
UBS Investment Bank: 3
Bank of America, N.A: 2
Barclays Capital: 2
Credit Suisse First Boston: 2
Deloitte Consulting: 2
Dominion: 2
Edgeview Partners: 2
Friedman, Billings, Ramsey Group: 2
Goldman Sachs: 2
IBM: 2
Johnson Lambert: 2
M&T Bank: 2
Morgan Stanley: 2
Raymond James & Associates: 2</p>

<p>FACT #9: McIntire has its students work w/ its corporate sponsors & investors to solve real-world problems for these companies. Furthermore, company executives (like from Rolls Royce) even come to McIntire students’ presentations about their organizations and actually implement the students’ suggestions and models. </p>

<p>Here is a list of McIntire’s Corporate Partners, Sponsors, and Investors.</p>

<p>Alcoa, Inc.
Bank of America
Barclays Capital
Beers & Cutler
Booz Allen Hamilton
Capital One Services
Citigroup
The Clark Construction Group
Dominion
The Dow Chemical Company
Ernst & Young
Genworth Financial
Goldman Sachs
Hantzmon Wiebel
Hecht’s
JP Morgan Chase
KPMG
McCann Erickson
Merrill Lynch
Moneyline Telerate
Navigant Consulting
Pier 1 Imports
PriceWaterhouseCoopers
Procter & Gamble
Rolls Royce
SunTrust Banks
SunTrust Robinson Humphrey
UBS Investment Bank
Wachovia Corp.</p>

<p>By the way, all this info can be found on the McIntire site. If you click on this link, click on the Placement Report on the top right of the page.
<a href="http://www.commerce.virginia.edu/career_services/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.commerce.virginia.edu/career_services/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

48

<p>Globalist- </p>

<p>You are very selective in your fact reporting, and while it seems you know much about UVA, it also seems you don't know anything about Dartmouth. </p>

<p>For Example: Fact #5: UVA is in a top 5 feeder into the top MBAs. FALSE!!!! It is top 5 among "business schools" of which there aren't even 5 TOP Ivy level schools. If you factor in all colleges, UVA is about 20 at the top 7 MBAs as a feeder, whereas Dartmouth is top 7 at all of them (factoring in student body)!!!</p>

<p>Fact #8!!! This is the best thing, those firms ARENT TOP ELITE FIRMS (the first elite firm listed is JP Morgan). Dartmouth gets places like Goldman Sachs, BCG, McKinsey, Bain, Mercer, etc on campus and those are the top hires. They view places like PWC as a secnd choice, here its UVA's top feeder! Look at the vault list, Dartmouth blows UVA out of the water in getting the TOP companies on campus.</p>

<p>Bottom line: </p>

<p>1) MBA Placement: Dartmouth is top 7, UVA top 20
2) Recruiting: Dartmouth has double the number of elites on campus</p>

49

<p>Hello Slipper, </p>

<p>Happy Saturday. Why are we indoors debating this? LOL!</p>

<p>Anyway, regarding #5, it is correct. Let me remind you that we are talking about undergraduate students who are interested in business. If someone was to go to UVa to study business, then I must talk about McIntire. </p>

<p>Hahaha...it seems that "elite" is all you care about. By the way, many McIntire students have multiple job offers. Just because an "elite" firm may have hired less grads than a "non-elite" firm, does it mean that they think less highly of UVa. What if the "non-elite" firm offers a better deal than the "elite" one in order to woo him or her? What if you're a student from the South and want to work in DC or Atlanta or Houston or Miami rather than New York?</p>

<p>Besides, there is more to business than Wall Street. Not every business major is interested in investing and finance. What do you say to the person who wants to be an accountant at one of the top accounting firms (i.e. Deloitte), or a marketing exec. at media corporation or a consultant? "Sorry, you don't count because you're not on Wall Street." Hahahaha... </p>

<p>McIntire does a great job getting UVa kids hired. Again, what undergrad program at Dartmouth has a 85% hiring rate w/ an average starting salary of $50k and a signing bonus of $6k plus an annual bonus of $19k?</p>

<p>Who cares about the Vault? I don't want to read biased opinions from the graduates of the various schools...since in regards to Dartmouth, those opinions/surveys are mostly based on Tuck, a GRADUATE BUSINESS SCHOOL.</p>

50

<p>You too! I'm outta here in ten minutes to go up to a lake, so I'm going to get some sunshine in.</p>

<p>Anyway, The vault lists where firms recruit, so its a great resource to actually see how companies view schools. I DO care about elite firms because my point is that Dartmouth is better than almost every school in the country at placing its graduates in the best jobs and the best programs. </p>

<p>As for someone who wants to go into accounting, marketing, ad sales, or any other non-consulting or finance field, I agree with you a business school is the best option and UVA is one of the top 5 choices. But for banking/ consulting Dartmouth wins and usually these are the most coveted jobs so the extra boost helps.</p>

51

<p>Whatever you say. ;) Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. So far no one has shown substantiated and verifiable undergraduate employment data from Dartmouth - only a lot of opinions and conjecture.</p>

<p>Lastly, "elite" is in the eye of the beholder. I wouldn't knock PriceWaterHouse. It is considered "elite" among accountants. If I studied accounting at UVa, I would be happy to work for them. It's a testament to McIntire's program that 18 undergrads were hired by them in 1 year.</p>

52

<p>ok, globalist, elite firms do matter. Let's turn this into a college application to make it simple since this is a college thread. Here is the scenario:
High school A has students admitted to Lafayette, Bucknell, Ohio Wesleyan Uni, Scripps college, etc.....Many of its students were admitted into these schools but only 3, or 4 kids made it to the "Elite" schools like Stanford, Harvard, MIT, Dartmouth, Princeton......
High School B has much fewer students admitted to the Lafay, Bucknell group while many of them were admitted to the "ELITE" schools.
So here is my question for you, which do you consider to be the better school? Simple enough huh.HIgh school A is a reflection of how UA is placing its students into business jobs, while high school B is how amazingly Dartmouth is doing with its students. Thank you</p>

53

<p>I always laugh at all these people that try to say that you will learn business once you get on the job. If I spent all my time teaching people what I expect them to know when I hire them, I wouldn't have any time in the day to get the work my company needs done. I need people with business degrees over those without--I don't care to hire people without business knowledge even if their undergraduate was at Dartmouth. </p>

<p>Wall Street hires Dartmouth grads because they are mainly looking for people who can make contacts--or do analysis--but not for people who have the business training already (well, not unless they are coming out of the MBA school, anyway)</p>

<p>P.S. I currently work as a Senior Manager in the finance department of the company Forbes Magazine ranked "Company of the Year" this year--so please do me the favor of not claiming I don't know anything about business--and no, I didn't go to Univ of Virginia. So this isn't the point here.</p>

54

<p>
[quote]
P.S. I currently work as a Senior Manager in the finance department of the company Forbes Magazine ranked "Company of the Year" this year--so please do me the favor of not claiming I don't know anything about business--and no, I didn't go to Univ of Virginia. So this isn't the point here.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>For someone in your position you would indeed be remiss to hire someone who does not have a background in accounting or finance and you would most likely be looking for someone who actually has work experience vs an entry level postion.</p>

<p>I would also find it very unlikely that you as a senior manager would be the direct manager of an entry level person, a mid-manager with years of finance as well as managerial experience and most likely an MBA/CPA, but the entry level person while part of your work group would not be a direct report and I doubt that you would even want to manage the day to day activities of this person. </p>

<p>In my over 20 years in HR, covering everything from staffing/ recruiting to compensation/benefits, & strategic HR, I have never seen a senior manager hire an entry level person, straight out of college with little or no work experience as that that hiring manager would most likely be a frist/mid level level manager.</p>

<p>I am not here to defend/ or dispute the merits of 2 zealous alumni when it comes to their school because when they get tired, the thread will die.</p>

55

<p>I'm a 3.2 GPA--but lots of IB honors courses and stuff. My current SAT I is at 540 Reading, 520 Writing, and 700 Math. I was on the Sailing Team at my school (it's near Monterey Bay in California) all 4 years and finished 8th in the top level of the state finals last year. I worked 10-15 hours a week during the past year, and did 75 hours of volunteer work each year.</p>

<p>What's the chances of getting into Purdue's business program.</p>

56

<p>HC240,
Those are my son's stats (who I posted for on occasion) and he's now been accepted at a lot of schools, but has chosen to attend Indiana's highly ranked (#10 in Business Week, #11 in USNW) business school. Personally, I got my MBA at UCLA and have been in the business world for over 25 years.</p>

<p>If you doubt who I am, call me up at Seagate's Technology's corporate headquarters in Scotts Valley, CA and ask for the External Reporting and SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley) Compliance department and I'll be glad to talk to you.</p>

<p>P.S. Sybbie719--I agree with you--however, I find it interesting that the argument largely is over whether a business school is worthwhile, when all the Ivy league colleges have MBA programs and Penn and Cornell have highly ranked undergraduate business programs.</p>

57

<p>Cal,</p>

<p>maybe we are both having a few "shake my head moments together" I think we both agree if someone tends to work in "business world" for and make a career of it, the time is going to come when they will have to pursue a MBA and B school is definitely going to have some worth. </p>

<p>Right now it would be good if kids got through high school graduation orientation and freshman year. Me today is monday, I just want to get through monday and not jump 4 years down the line :)</p>

58

<p>Agreed--another typical Monday--and I know I'm spending too much time on this site--looks like I'll be working late again tonight to make up the time.</p>

<p>(And the weather outside is spectacular--which isn't helping too much).</p>

<p>I hope things are going well for you today there in NYC--</p>

59

<p>In NYC the weather is </p>

<p>Overcast, way to much pollen, chance of rain but at least it is warm :)</p>

60

<p>"Bottom line: </p>

<p>1) MBA Placement: Dartmouth is top 7, UVA top 20
2) Recruiting: Dartmouth has double the number of elites on campus"</p>