<p>"Denial of alcohol's impact, combined with heavy drinking, is a telltale sign of incipient alcoholism"---mini is on target with that one. The stories of heavy drinking by men and women alike even on Mondays, that I hear from college students, are very sad. These kids are definitely on the road to alcoholism.</p>
<p>Can I re-post an old message I once had on here?</p>
<p>I am writing this message about Rick and Patty Spady. Their 19 yr old daughter died of alcohol poisoning at Colorado State last year. I saw these parents on TV and they were heartbreaking. However, they are doing something that I think is really important. As their child was left alone after a party and died from alcohol poisoning, they are trying to educate kids on how they might recognize a friend in serious trouble and get help. They make wallet cards that list symptoms which kids should never ignore in their friends. They believe that if her friends had understood that she was very sick her life could have been saved. You can order 10 wallet cards free on their web site. I ordered mine and my kid ordered some and he will hand them out to his friends at graduation parties. Here is the web site:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.samspadyfoundation.org/%5B/url%5D">http://www.samspadyfoundation.org/</a></p>
<p>PLEASE GO TO THAT WEB SITE, ORDER THE 10 FREE WALLET CARDS, AND SEND THEM TO YOUR COLLEGE STUDENT NOW.</p>
<p>Heavy drinking in college is NOT related to future drinking behavior.
It's a college thing for the vast majority of kids and should be treated not as future alcholism but as a social problem.</p>
<p>barrons: that article is speculative, and uses only their "opinions": no studies or outcome evaluations seem to be used.</p>
<p>Ages 18-21 are years when some of the most highly addictive behavior is seen. The article you reference is merely using semantics in an attempt to provide a solution for U-W. Many students who drink in college are displaying alcoholic behavior, however they can more easily be accepted by their peers because there is so much drinking around them. College is a place where many alcoholics harden their drinking habits, and many drag their fellow students into it, to have company and justify it.</p>
<p>Yes, binge drinking has a different tone to it, but the problems are real, such as date rape, death, accidents, DUIs, etc. Any way one looks at it, there is a lot of college drinking that is self-destructive, whether it continues at the same intensity or not after college. There is a lot of evidence that it continues into major bar-scenes in graduate schools and in the 20s singles scenes. The behavior often remains the same, and whether it is classified for any individual as alcoholism at that point or continued binge drinking still can point to addictive and self-destructive behavior for many participants.</p>
<p>This story is very sad, no matter what you call it - a social problem or
whatever . This should not be happening with all the education now-
I really don't understand it.</p>
<p>Does anyone have any ideas about how to prevent these tragedies?</p>
<p>By the way, the Sam Spady Foundetion is a great website and organization. I think their wallet cards may have people waiting too long to call an ambulance, as once the victim is "passed out" in the generic sense or is breathing at all slower than normal, is when the ambulance should be called. I think that if students are concerned enough to be monitoring someone, they should call 911 at that point, because the other students do not have the expertise, knowledge or equipment to know when there is a medical emergency. The card says to check the person every 2 minutes, but if someone is so concerned, they should call 911. There have been several reports of deaths occuring when friends were monitoring friends instead of calling an ambulance. Plus the ambulance response times are variable and not ideal in all locations.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
Does anyone have any ideas about how to prevent these tragedies?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes. But, I'd just get slings and arrows if I posted them. So I think I'll let the dearly departed's praise of heavy drinking, fraternities, and hazing speak for itself.</p>
<p>interesteddad, hazing had absolutely nothing to do with lucifer's death, and neither did the type of drinking which typically goes on at fraternities on non-party nights. I have the feeling that they must have been chugging hard liquor, as it's quite difficult to get that drunk off light beer out of a keg (which is what frats normally park somewhere in their houses when they're just hanging out.)</p>
<p>I will let Lucifer's praise of heavy drinking, fraternities, and hazing speak for itself.</p>
<p>ID didn't say hazing had anything to do with it... he just stated that Lucifer has been posting, quite often actually, about heavy drinking, frat's and hazing... which is true.</p>
<p>Oh, I'm not going to argue with that, but hazing, in this case, had nothing to do with it. His defense of fraternities speaks for his actions much, much less than his defense of heavy drinking, in my opinion.</p>
<p>As a HS senior my second son spent 2 nights in emergency units with kids who had alcohol poisoning. In each case, he was the person holding the kid's head while the boy vomited, had an NG tube put into the stomach, had the stomach pumped. HE was the person holding the boy's arm down while the IV went in . (we live in a country with much less sophisticated medical facilities than the US...it's an all hands on deck situation in ER's here). He was also the person whom the boy's mother (drunk herself) became angry at for not taking better care of her son(in each case the boy was not a friend of my son's- he was a much younger kid whom my son and his friends 'rescued' from outside a bar in fact). On the second occasion(the first took place on a vacation, I wasn't with him), he came home at 0600 and was literally in shock from all that had happened that night. His friends, who had been slightly less hands-on than he, were also profoundly impacted. </p>
<p>Too many kids spend too much of their lives being protected from what is real and from the consequences of their own actions. Teenagers feel immortal. I think aversion approaches are compelling and that only the kids who are the impulsive/risk takers are likely to walk away from situations like my son confronted without a changed perspective on alcohol. </p>
<p>At his current school my son observes that kids are not handled with any sort of punitive response if they come to the ER in need of medical care related to alcohol use...hopefully they use the ER when they need it. However, this is clearly not enough. Their 'fee' for use of the ER might be the next party night spent in the ER seeing for themselves what the true consequences are....</p>
<p>ID, I think this would be an appropriate place/time to post your suggestions. How do parents/colleges/somebody help kids like Lucifer? I've just read through his posts (as I imagine many of us did tonight). He was a very smart kid, with viewpoints that are all-too-common among college kids. How can we all hope to prevent another tragedy like this?</p>
<p>My parental response was to talk to my child in college tonight about never putting a drunk friend to bed. Call campus security, and have your friend transported, PLEASE. I think all colleges should make this call easier for kids, and educate students about the warning signs of severe alcohol poisoning.</p>
<p>I am so terribly sad to read about the death of this young man. I remember his posts well. I have no suggestions, no ideas about how the excessive drinking problem can be fixed. I'm just stunned by this loss, and I pray for his family and friends.</p>
<p>I'm so sad, upset and confused to read about this young man's death. I instantly remembered his posts when his username was given. I had worried about him after reading his posts and am horrified that it came to this end. I also pray for his family and friends - their sorrow will be neverending. I'm sure Matthew did not intend this end for himself but this has truly brought the problem "home" for me and many others. I will be ordering the cards from sam's site tonight.</p>
<p>"My parental response was to talk to my child in college tonight about never putting a drunk friend to bed. Call campus security, and have your friend transported, PLEASE. I"</p>
<p>I think that this is in many respects unrealistic. A student who has a drunk friend is likely to be drunk themselves. People whose idea of partying is getting passed-out drunk are likely to have friends who either do the same or are drinking enough not to have good judgment.</p>
<p>I think that emphasizing what the friends should do also removes each person's responsibility to not drink so heavily as to imperil their own life.</p>
<p>I also think that the emphasis on "take care of your drunk friends" puts the burden on people who, for instance, may have been assigned a roommate who drinks heavily and ends up partying, going home, passing out and then dying. That's not the roommate's fault. </p>
<p>I'm not suggesting that's what you're saying. I am saying, though, that far more emphasis needs to be placed on teens not endangering themselves by drinking to the point of passing out. It's unrealistic to expect that others will be able to save them.</p>
<p>Something that just occurred to me....in the HS age group kids are often driving to parties..so there is the designated driver who presumably is less/not inebriated and hence perhaps able to attend the the needs of a peer.</p>
<p>In a college setting, a frat setting, whatever, mostly kids are expecting to walk home, not drive, so there is not the implicit or presumed availability of a given individual among a group who MAYBE can be more responsive to the needs of others. Plus there are not parents at whom who need to be fooled...hence, greater liberty, fewer external controls...(this probably just occurred to me but everyone else is going, duh..of course...)...</p>
<p>That said, I agree with Northstarmom. Assuming that another person will take care of you does not increase your level of responsibility for yourself...which is the key thing..definitely.</p>
<p>I have also reread Lucifer's posts in a kind of state of shock, and then read the horrendously sad pages of posts at his obit website. His posts were always brash and worrisome, but he was a vibrant, intelligent boy with zest for life and now he will never get the chance to mature and grow up. It is clear from his posts that he was looking forward to his future in every way.
It is true that we have yet to read the final determination of cause of death by Charlottesville authorities, but many people are reeling at Cornell and in St. Louis and in Virginia. A sober, long-suffering roommate of my godson's in another state saved his life by dialing 911 and bringing an ambulance three years ago when he was "asleep" in a stupor from drinking. He was right as rain within a few hours after the trip to the ER. But first, there had to be someone under 21 willing to call an ambulance to the dorm and not care what anyone thought of this choice...an unfair burden to place on a dorm mate, but thank heavens for that call.</p>
<p>My daughter and I talked about this situation last night (trying to get I a teachable moment where ever and however I can). She said that one of the "problems" is that at schools that have strict alcohol policies for underage drinking that include suspension/expulsion, students are often afraid to call for help because even as a Good Samaritan, they risk disciplinary action from the college whether or not they have been participating in the drinking (not to mention what will happen to the drunk student after s/he sleeps it off), so it comes off as no good deed going unpunished. </p>
<p>She said that her school recently revised its Good Samaritan policy where there will be no disciplinary action against a student who contacts 911/student health or safety and security to get help for a drunken student</p>
<p>There has to be a happy medium with the colleges and local law enforcement not that has to condone or wink at underage drinking, but sends the message first and foremost that it if a person is in trouble; GET HELP </p>
<p>While they can still hold on to their stance about underage drinking, they must balance it with a mechanism where they are not shooting the messenger for getting help. </p>
<p>Some look at the good sam policies as get out of jail free cards while others believe that the policy is one of the College's most effective tools in preventing an alcohol-related tragedy because it permits students and organizations to act in good faith and to aid someone in need of medical attention without hesitation. </p>
<p>In emergency situations, time is of the essence. Each second lost worrying about who might get into trouble is a second less that medical personnel have to do their crucial work. The "Good Samaritan" policy places a premium on students' health and is vital to the College's mission of protecting the safety and security of its students. While the policy is enforced at schools, it does not exempt the student from possible criminal charges by the local police.</p>
<p>The new at her school policy grants impunity for serving or consuming alcohol to those involved in a Good Samaritan call, which consists of a student calling Safety and Security for help with an intoxicated individual. </p>
<p>She said that since the policy change, students now feel fore comfortable in calling. I am not here to debate whether the policy is right or wrong, but sometimes we need to check a few things at the door for a moment to do a greater good. In this type of situation students can play the biggest role in the safety of themselves and others.</p>