<p>Hey,</p>
<p>Which summer program is harder? I'm interested in attending a summer program which isn't just 3 hours of classes and 2 hours of homework and "play" the rest of the day. </p>
<p>If I went to CTY I would either take number theory or mathematical logic.</p>
<p>If I went to EPGY, I would either take Mathematical Logic, Number Theory, or (maybe) Quantum Mechanics. </p>
<p>Does anyone have insight into any of those courses? as in what they teach.
Thanks</p>
<p>All of the CTY Number Theory classes are already full (not the Mathematical Logic classes - they aren't as popular). CTY students are in class 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. My S has always enjoyed the program, which means that they were teaching to his (advanced) level adequately.</p>
<p>i never went to epgy, but i can tell you that at cty, you learn as much outside the classroom as you do during class. classes consist of 5 hours of lectures/activities and 2 hours of hw. Many of peers who took math logic said it was really easy. Apparently, number theory is much harder.</p>
<p>Can't speak for any of the math classes at EPGY, but the Quantum class is definitely serious. In fact, one of the instructor's stated goals is making sure his class isn't "just 3 hours of classes and 2 hours of homework and 'play' the rest of the day." The extent to which the students go along with that varies.</p>
<p>Arg. Number Theory is full? Dang.</p>
<p>How about the number theory course at brown? And the brown pre-college program in general, is it serious? </p>
<p>Also, does anyone have any summer programs that have courses in number theory, or other advanced math techniques. I'm not interested in taking Calc. I want to sample "advanced math". </p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Quantum at EPGY is what you put into it. The instructor's lectures + hw is the bare minimum, but if you want, there's a lot more to be done.</p>
<p>The year I was there, the TA lectures were <em>excellent</em> and more advanced/in-depth. You could have helped with lectures for something else, and the demonstrations involved with that (magnetic wall! magnetic wall!), which, iirc, involved setting up a Michaelson-Morley interferometer (this was 2 years ago. I could be wrong about the exact apparatus). The TAs are always available, and there're a few decent QM books available for further reading.
so, yeah, there's a decent amount of work available, but you do have to pursue it.</p>
<p>You might try SUMaC; it's the program on which EPGY was somewhat based. It has two different courses, one on abstract algebra (group theory), and one on topology. It also involves some expository research on a more in-depth topic; if you do the abstract algebra course, one of the groups studies cryptography, in which case you learn a bit of number theory on the side. Their website is sumac.stanford.edu.</p>
<p>eternallysleepy: I was one of your TA's. I bet you can guess which one.</p>
<p>What is the order of difficulty for the summer programs? Like ROss, Sumac, HCISSIM, PROMYS, etc? </p>
<p>And how are the brown/harvard/columbia summer programs? I know they are the "pay to go" programs but how is the professor interactions? How do they stack up in "seriousness" compared to EPGY and CTY?</p>
<p>Too many kids at "pay to go" programs at selective colleges/ivy are there because their parents want the BIG NAME on the resume; leads to effort and behavior problems.</p>
<p>Non-competitive "pay to go" has no impact on college admissions, other then any personal growth experienced at that time. It is a business, and ADCOMs know it.</p>
<p>Yes I knew that. I am not attending a summer program because it "looks" good. My reason for attending is to learn things you can't normally learn in high school?</p>
<p>So how is the professor interactions at these programs?
Can someone rank the difficulty of the math programs?</p>
<p>BUMP?</p>
<p>CTY. Classwork + homework is challenging and takes up ~7 hours, professors are amazing and accessible.</p>
<p>The experience is the only reason to attend EPGY/CTY/blah. Not much prestige to be found.</p>
<p>Professor interactions: pretty darn good at EPGY, at least for the one course I took. The instructor was fun, friendly, and almost "one of us," if you will.</p>
<p>Difficulty of math: can't help you there. QM needed some (simple) multivar, and we learned a bit of bra-ket notation, but it was fairly simple stuff. It's mostly conceptual, and that's actually quite difficult. The problem sets sometimes took a very long time.</p>
<p>Hello, Sly Si. Yes, I know exactly who you are. Diplo!</p>
<p>So carboholic decided that I should be more aggressive.</p>
<p>I knew someone who attended programs at both CTY and EPGY. That kid came back to EPGY again after the first summer.</p>
<p>I can look up the QM books if you'd like an "insight into the courses."
* The main one is The Quantum Challenge by Greenstein and Zajonc. It's kind of an intro for other scientists and engineers, so it explains the details of the major experiments with some math/rigor. It is definitely not the undergrad textbook you may use in college. It isn't light reading, but it isn't OMG**BBQ Greek. Hard to explain.
* The second one we read out of is *Introduction to the Quantum Theory by David Park. This is more the traditional QM textbook, and was mostly optional reading.</p>
<p>Our professor at CTY had a collection of plush Cthulu dolls, ranging from Superhero Cthulu to Secret Agent Cthulu.
CTY has academic diversity - you have a shot at rooming with people in humanities courses. Life gets a lot more entertaining when everyone's read Nietzsche.
CTY has a student-run fan website that's actually useful.
I know people who have been to CTY for seven years. Note that that requires you to have been born between August and October AND to have skipped a grade.</p>
<p>From carboholic's experiences, I think I can say that his experience at CTY was very quirky/"entertaining." They promote academic diversity.</p>
<p>EPGY houses people by course. This way, you do see the humi kids at breakfast/lunch/parties/whatever, but the kids you live with and do hw with share your science/math interests. More focus.
That's not to say that we didn't have our long philosophical debates, fencing bouts, games of manhunt, risk, diplomacy, catan, basketball, and so on. It's just that you don't have to explain every nerdy/scientific reference you may make.</p>
<p>Just a warning: I'm making gross generalizations here.</p>
<p>We're both making gross generalizations. That, and being fiercely devoted to our camps :-D
CTY has awesome dances - canon is classic rock and random Indian techno/pop that nobody understands.
CTY has activities like Colonization (where you conquer all the other activities and rename them), watching hilariously bad sci-fi movies, and The Worst Activity Ever.
Go to SSP, by the way.</p>
<p>EPGY has dances, too. I can't vouch for their quality, though, since I kind of skipped all but one. That had a good deal of Daft Punk, iirc. And excellent mocktails.
EPGY counselors play the Talking Heads at you as a form of (awesome) punishment. Lots of music, an a cappella group. Stealthy movie-watching. Some Bjork, Sufjan Stevens, and Arcade Fire.
We were taught how to cube by Tyson Mao. Lots of cubing. Lots of internet memes the year I was there, but not quite as much the year later, from what I've heard.
Jamba juice. We spent so much there. Tresidder and their cafe, Subway, and little store thing.
Excursions into Palo Alto with the counselors (local knowledge!) for food. California beaches (beat that, CTY!)</p>
<p>And, yes, SSP is good.</p>
<p>Nice debate. </p>
<p>As for the CTY/EPGY courses? Are there a lot of rising seniors taking them? I'm worried that because those camps have kids in 7th grade, that there won't be many upperclassmen.</p>
<p>That debate wasn't intentional AT ALL.</p>
<p>EPGY QM consisted mostly of rising seniors. there were four rising juniors, two of them internationals on a different calendar.</p>
<p>SO SPONTANEOUS
CTY had about 2 rising seniors per class of 14-15.</p>