D failed HS drug test/expulsion -- Loss of college scholarships?

Parents Forum
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<p>Just to let you know, most private schools are up front about their rules and the right to impose penalities. When you sign the contract and pay,you are agreeing to those rules. They are not subject to public school rules. They can kick you out or not give you a diploma if they don't want to do so without a reason. Getting an attorney and playing hardball is not a good idea. Any good attorney with experience and knowledge about dealing with private schools and expulsions will fully know this. The best the lawyer can do is advise you on how things can go, give you ideas how to proceed. If you are lucky and get a lawyer who knows the school and the school attorney, he may be ablet o help out a little bit more than that. But threats to sue are just going to make the administration dig its heels in deeper when it comes to things like this. </p>

<p>I am sure this is not the first case of this sort. Kids are caught at the end of the year with booze, drugs, misbehavior all of the time at all schools. THere are precedents at every school, and the OP needs to find out what they are. If the scholarship and college acceptance is a big thorn and question, the best person to contact would be the college counselor at the school. Call him at home. He'll know exactly how you feel, what you are going through, and can tell you what the school's precedents are, and maybe even that of the particular college. This happens each year. It is not something that a school brags about in its newsletters.</p>

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<p>BayDad, challenging the test or the process would make you the plaintiff in protracted litigation. You want an attorney to negotiate a favorable outcome ASAP. This means making sure there's no notation on the transcript and, if possible, no other notification sent to the college (despite the fact that the final transcript request will probably contan language requesting notice of an suspension/expulsion-level offenses).</p>

<p>This is a delicate matter. The school will, understandably, be reluctant to engange in any conduct that will put its relationship with the college at risk. OTOH, the last thing any day or prep school wants is for the parents to think that it would torpedo a graduating senior after the parents have coughed-up over $150K in tuition over the past 4 years.</p>

<p>I think you can certainly work this out w/the school. Any maybe you don't need to have counsel accompany you to the Monday morning meeting - - but I'd certainly have counsel ready on phone alert and if things start to go south with the school, get him/her into the meeting via conference call.</p>

<p>BayDad, l feel for you and understand a parent's desired to pull out the stops to assist his child; but I also understand I-dad's concerns about covering up these sorts of offenses. As parents, we see our kids as the exceptions, the ones w/o the serious problems - - but at the same time, we are often troubled by the presence of other peoples kids w/ similar problems/histories. Covering up a student's drug/substance misconduct mean more kids w/ drug/substance histories on campus and off the radar. </p>

<p>A student whose grades drop precipitously during senior year may still be admitted, but immediated placed on academic probation and subject to more scrutiny than other frosh (that student might also lose an academic/merit scholarship). No reason the same shouldn't occur w/ substance offenses. As for such consdquences being harsh or unforseen - - well, adolescents (those w/o a fully formed adult brain) are impulsive and often don't fully appreciate the possible consequences of their conduct. Live and learn.</p>

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<p>God I feel like a moron. I wouldn't know what substance was implied here. That aside, I think if you abstract this out, it's like many other issues when you try to protect your child from great harm, all the while letting them feel the natural consequences of their actions when great harm isn't at stake.</p>

<p>Let them break an arm. OK. Break their neck? No. Only the parents can know if the daughter is breaking her arm if she doesn't go to this university, thereby learning something and bouncing back, or breaking her neck, and being set back in a profound way.</p>

<p>My deep sympathies for what you are going through. If you are from the SF Bay Area, it is tough living in this area, the extreme wealth and absent parents can lead to a lot of wild partying in large mansions where supervision is lacking. I am so sorry.</p>

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<p>It depends so much on the situation too, Alumother. If the girl truly has some mood issues, mental issues, abuse issues that have reached a point where they need to be addressed, then the diploma, college are all minor considerations. If this was a foolish mistake that does not have future ramifications in that area, the consequence of no highschool diploma after 4 years of paying tuition to a private school, AND the loss of funds and admission to a college is pretty heavy duty. Especially considering how widespread drug abuse is in college, and what a blind eye is often turned to it. I don't consider this a broken neck, even if the girl loses diploma and college opportunity. I have seen true broken necks both in and out of quotes and this does not come close. However, depending on the circumstances, the punishment may be unduly harsh...or not enough.</p>

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<p>BayAreaDad, I am so sorry that this is happening. I am a firm believer in not bailing kids out when they do stupid stuff & get caught. However, I am not sure that that punishment in this case fits the crime. It really does seem too harsh. I hope you can come to an agreement with the high school so that your D's punishment does not cost her her college acceptance or scholarship.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I have a younger brother who had a HUGE substance abuse problem. He is 5 years younger than I, and 4-7 years younger than my other brothers. We knew he smoked pot from time to time, but we were totally unaware of the fact that he started drinking at 14, then added in an array of drugs, then began selling them to support his own habit. Believe me, we were clueless ... and in hindsight, we should not have been (heck, we thought we LOST the stuff he pawned). Many people in the community were aware of his problems. I kid you not when I tell you that my entire family was CLUELESS. We are not stupid. So ... I am going to warn you that this may be much bigger than you think. I still believe you should do everything possible to save her admission & scholarship. However, I also believe you must arrange for a very good substance abuse counselor/program. You must require her to go through counseling even if she says she has no problem. And you must be prepared to make her take a semester or a year gap if necessary. </p>

<p>Yes, by helping her escape the consequence of losing her admission/scholarship, you might send the message that she can do what she wants without consequences. But I think it's best to take that chance, insist on counseling, and work toward a goal of sending a changed young woman off to face a bright future.</p>

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<p>I agree totally with Alumother re: breaking an arm vs breaking one's neck. OTOH, having to pass up a college oppty is not uncommon. </p>

<p>By that I mean not attending a particular college, delaying admission or enrolling with restrictions/conditions - - as opposed to foregoing college all together. Hence my reference to loss of the scholarship and academic probation. For example, students admitted with merit awards, for example, may lose their scholarships if they fail to meet specified gpa requirements. This is certainly upsetting and may cause any number of harships, but is not generally viewed as the equivalent of breaking one's neck. </p>

<p>Still, it is understandable that you would want to spare your D such hardhip any disappointment, even if it doesn't rise to the level of cruel and unusual punishment.</p>

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<p>I think this is in a way the task in college too.</p>

<p>In high school I was very clear with my kids on my expectations for their performance. In college, I am giving my daughter clear signals that she needs to take responsibility for her choices. But, when she makes bad choices, at this point I still bail her out sometimes. Occasionally, I don't. But only the Parenting God knows if I or any of us am making the correct choice on bail or not bail, broken neck or broken arm. And, I imagine different families have different philosophies, depending on their religious beliefs, political affiliations, and cultural heritage.</p>

<p>I am not sure if this is a duh type statement or worth making:).</p>

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<p>I recommend you bring an attorney, and that the entire meeting is about listening to their position statement, clarifying and humbly asking about alternatives, also pose the question to your high school administrator...what do YOU think would be a wise course of action regarding our daughter's first year of college education and need to keep moving forward while taking inventory about her life with formal substance abuse counseling and intervention? Ask them what they think! </p>

<p>Make sure you understand their outlook and point of view before your consider your response. It is even possible that you might consider during the meeting...if you need to ask for the favor of meeting with them again--very briefly in 24 hours after you have processed the content of the meeting in private. Don't speak in absolutes and don't behave in a way that elicits absolutes. This is an important negotiation. Ask for 24 more hours if you need it and then respond. </p>

<p>I "heard" you state that you are not averse to formal professional treatment and you are making strides in that direction, and need no random clinically oriented lecturettes on this thread, which I understand. I know you basically are trying to focus on negotiating with the school in your exit interview Monday.</p>

<p>I just want to pipe in. Especially since your D started out equivicating and saying this was a "false positive." I live where Hillbilly heroin (oxycontin and its cousins) is a scourge, in a culture that is not much like Northern Cal's. There is not a lot of stress here, but even so young people who experience the intense pleasure of an opiate find that ordinary life and ordinary pleasures pale in comparison to opiate highs. I live in a part of a state that is plagued by oxycontin and related painkiller addictions, and adults do not teach their children that these things are dangerous...out of ignorance. We didn't use these drugs and we don't understand the Enemy they are. I have one distant relative in his mid 20s going to a methadone clinic daily and completely unemployable with brain damage that is obvious to all now. It really doesn't matter what school he could get into because his ability to learn is permanently damaged. His problems started with dropping a few painkillers on weekends only. Recently, it came to my attention that another close relative (a nephew) pressured another relative for the rest of his dental pain meds, and he has also taken a few painkillers routinely from a parent's medicine cabinet. My nephew also has a skewed sense of reality and does not consider asking for someone else's painkillers to be socially unacceptable at all, nor is it stealing in his book, or a red flag...he feels justified for a weekend "day off" to take these pills. In fact, I believe he and his peers all have jobs, are in their mid 20s, and think that dropping painkillers (when they can buy them or find them on weekends) is a normative experience, just as in my day, smoking marijuana was considered a normal thing to do on your "time off" from work. </p>

<p>If she is using opiate painkillers for fun, she is not alone. But it is a difficult thing to face an entire lifetime of normal sized highs once you have used opiates. </p>

<p>I hope you will post here and let us know what course you are going to take and I hope she is going to get wonderful intervention and the opportunity to have the pleasure of accomplishment in college with her peers next year. I truly hope that you and her school administrators have a meeting of the minds. As a parent, we know you have dreams for her fulfillment and happiness and we hope to learn she is with her peers and drug aversive in her outlook soon. I have to say that I wish I had been more vocally anti alcohol/drugs with my sons than I was...before launching them. We just presumed they would mirror our behavior but we sort of failed to spell things out and to promote totally drug/alcohol free as a legitimate and wise choice.</p>

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<p>Having dealt with private schools a lot, I can tell you that bringing a lawyer is not the best thing to do, unless the lawyer is familiar with the school and its rules. Private schools have their own rules, and upon enrolling your child, you are accepting them. There is no due process here except what they wish to give. This happens enough that there is likely to be a process already set for it, and there will not be much give. </p>

<p>True, kids very often have problems once they are in college, losing scholarships, getting disciplinary action over drinking, drugs, etc. However, I think that right now at the brink of high school graduation, it is a particularly rough time to lose an opportunity. This is like low tide with the pickings for scholarships and college choices. There is momentum of sorts that occurs with this, and I can see why the parent is upset about losing it here. It remains to be seen whether the problem is much worse than this single incident shows it to be. </p>

<p>I</p>

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<p>To clarify things a bit, we are not talking opiates here, rather pharmaceutical stimulants. There is no threat of referral to law enforcement. There is, however, a very high probability that a withdrawal will be expected or expulsion will be forced. I have no illusions about that.</p>

<p>I do want to make sure that her rights are protected from obvious transgressions and as I'm not smart enough to do that perfectly myself, I expect to have an attorney on call to advise us. I do not necessarily plan to have the attorney there in person, at least not yet.</p>

<p>Trying to walk the fine line between letting her feel the pain of natural consequences, but yet keeping some hope for the future. As someone put it, breaking an arm vs. breaking her neck.</p>

<p>So I think the strategy is to let the chips fall where they may with respect to graduation etc - as a 4-year sr at this particular school, that is a massive emotional blow. But do what we can to salvage/protect the college opportunity. We certainly have wondered, given this development, whether college in the fall is the right thing. But we'll sort that out later. Right now, we're just trying to not drown.</p>

<p>We have considered letting college fall where it may also, as we don't really think she has fully accepted that her behavior was wrong at this point -- I suspect that she thinks she fell afoul of rules, but "everyone does what she did" (limited reference group, I know). But I guess I just can't let the merit aid, for which we have ALL worked so hard, pass her by. So be it.</p>

<p>And then, finally, medical intervention is clearly indicated. We're on that.</p>

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<p>This has been eye-opening, particularly your post, Faline2. I had no idea. I'm not even sure of the difference between opiates and stimulants, but I take it the former is more serious. Oh, for the good old days of pot and beer.</p>

<p>BayAreaDad, It sounds like you are on the right track. You've gotten some good advice here about consulting the lawyer right away, but keeping him/her in the background. I hope that the next couple of days will bring you some peace of mind on the college issue. She will be feeling some consequences, as you point out, and you may well arrange others (I think that paying the lawyer's fees is an excellent suggestion), but losing a college opportunity that she must have worked very hard for would be excessively harsh. You have some time to determine how serious the drug situation is, to arrange treatment, and to determine whether college should be deferred for a while. It's going to be a hard summer (or longer) for her, and I think that the prospect of college in the fall (or later) would help motivate her to do what is necessary to get past this problem.</p>

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<p>I agree with NYMom, BADad, I think you are on the right track. Good luck.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I'm not even sure of the difference between opiates and stimulants, but I take it the former is more serious.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, in the sense that heroin, morphine, codeine, and the various synthetic prescription painkiller versions of opiates are among the most physically addictive substances on earth, equalled or surpassed only by nicotine.</p>

<p>The stimulants (prescription amphetimines) is, in all likelihood, the more managable problem.</p>

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<p>I've been trying to read through the 2 threads and then re-read BayAreaDad's comments and have one thought to add.</p>

<p>I think the more important problem has not been addressed and probably needs to be addressed before a just resolution can be determined. That problem is that the girl in question has not fully come to terms with her behavior and her responsibility for her behavior. </p>

<p>It is quite understandable that in the few days since being confronted with the disciplinary action, she started in denial and is slowly proceeding through the various stages of dealing with this issue. These things are probably never resolved in a weekend, so it would be unwise to press her into any action.</p>

<p>However, I do understand that the school meeting is Monday and it must be addressed. I do agree with getting good counsel tomorrow and would go with counsel's advice as to whether counsel should be present on Monday.</p>

<p>That being said, my approach to the situation (no professional background or personal experience, just putting myself in your shoes) would be to look at what the school would want for your daughter and let that lead your actions.</p>

<p>I don't think schools like taking kids in and dumping them on the side of the road in the last week of school. They want to see their graduates succeed. However, they also don't want to be putting out a product that is likely to have troubles (substance abuse) in college, as it will hurt them over time.</p>

<p>The school wants to graduate a child they believe is beyond a substance abuse problem. The problem is that she isn't there and probably cannot be for some period of time (completion of a serious substance abuse program). </p>

<p>I think your best option at this point is to ask for a deal whereby she can take her final exams proctored off-campus and upon completion (to the school's satisfaction) of a substance abuse program, her exams are accepted and the expulsion is changed to a suspension.</p>

<p>I am not familiar with the university's requirements for reporting of final transcripts from the high school, but there may be enough time to get this all done by the fall term deadlines.</p>

<p>However, I probably wouldn't push for that and would enroll her for a PG year at a private school where she can be routinely tested and demonstrate that she has indeed put her rehab into action in her life and has moved on. </p>

<p>And it is probably a less risky (to your daughter's life) path to take. If she is in a more controlled (than a college campus) school situation and does have a relapse, you will more likely be able get her more help before things get completely out of hand.</p>

<p>If the PG year turns out uneventful, she will still have the opportunity to get some more AP type classes under her belt and will be even better prepared to deal with college.</p>

<p>Most important though is that SHE is onboard with the fact that SHE needs to take a step back in her life and deal with a problem that SHE has brought upon herself.</p>

<p>You are there to provide the support and the opportunities for her to put her life back together. I hope you can focus on her long term needs and get beyond the immediate shock of this administrative kick in the pants.</p>

<p>Good Luck. I know you love your daughter. Make sure she gets what she needs.</p>

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<p>BayAreaDad: I apologize for the unnecessary asides about oxycontin in my part of America and tales in my circle of its misuse by young people who mistake it for a recreational drug.
You are doing your utmost I am sure to think this through with clarity and balance, and to represent your daughter fairly and wisely during a very painful time.</p>

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<p>I would absolutely bring counsel to the meeting on Monday. I would not want my counsel to be leading the meeting, but I would want someone there, listening to everything the school administration says. (I am an attorney - in a very different practice area). </p>

<p>From what I've seen, private schools don't care all that much about the impact of disciplinary rules on any one particular student. I would not count on the school having the same interest as you in preserving your child's admission and scholarship.</p>

<p>In terms of dealing with your daughter it certainly sounds from your posts that you are on the right track and I wish you all the best.</p>

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<p>goalie dad says it very well- the most critical thing for long term success for your DD is to realise it is HER problem, every one else may be doing it, but SHE was caught and if as you say SHE was targeted, it was for a reason.</p>

<p>This is every parent's fear and our hearts are with you BADad, sounds like you are taking it all seriously and if she has been abusing Rx drugs, she may not yet be thinking straight and not yet able to process the consequences. A gap year seems like an excellent thing. I also think the school wants their policy to be taken seriously and will respect you more and work with you more if you show they you see their actions are helpful. Catching this now is better than having her addicted to something serious next spring. Talk to the school about a SA program and successful completion of that allowing her to move ahead.</p>

<p>Ask their advice about GAP/PG year and maybe that would be a good condition of their cooperation.</p>

<p>Let us know how it goes.</p>

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<p>My only reaction to the "get tough on drugs and alcohol" responses. A very large percentage of teenagers drink, use drugs, or both. If you think that your kid doesn't, you may be right, but probably not. The OP's daughter may have a real problem, but there is simply no way of knowing on these facts.</p>

<p>On the legal situation, my impression (worth what you paid for it, since I'm no expert in this area):</p>

<p>As this is a private school, there are no federal constitutional problems here. However, the provisions of the California state constitution have been applied to at least some private parties. Not sure about the applicability to private schools.</p>

<p>That having been said, I'm not sure what due process arguments you might make in any event. The girl knew she might be tested, so there is no lack of notice. I don't see the relevance of lack of true "randomness" to the argument. The OP might have some sort of contractual claim, but frankly I doubt it. </p>

<p>That having been said, as already noted, I'm not an expert in California law on this subject. You probably should get a lawyer, but make sure it is a good one--preferably one who has some sense of the culture of this particular school. It strikes me that this is a case where negotiating skills are more important than technical legal knowledge.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>This is so complicated... and heartbreaking. All of the advice given is very good, and I will chime in as a high school teacher and parent. I think BayDad, that you are doing everything absolutely correctly. I would not have an attorney present at tomorrow's meeting, but I would have one all ready to give advice. The reason I would not bring a lawyer, is that it immediately puts the school on the defensive and sets up blocks that, frankly, you don't need at this point. The school will likely not have its attorney present, so the sides will be skewed. The administration will feel backed into a corner, and you want to have an open dialog. Tomorrow should be the time to listen and see what the school has to say. A good deal will be accomplished if you can all appear to be ON YOUR DAUGHTER'S SIDE. Everyone will want what is best for her. The sticking point is college and the scholarship. No one knows, yet, what the college's reaction will be. Even if they know what happened, they may not react negatively. So, the sticking point becomes notification or lack thereof. Maybe that is negotiable, and not legal. I don't know. I just know that having a lawyer present will not be good for you at tomorrow's meeting. My $.02. Do let us know what happens, and we will all be with you in cyber-spirit.</p>

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<p>Faline2 - no offense taken. Each person can only speak from their own experience.</p>