<p>Franglish, I understand your point but I think given the seriousness of these charges and consequences, I'd bring my attorney. I don't think the school will be defensive or feel backed into the corner - their rules are their rules. I would want someone not emotionally involved in the result to be listening carefully for me. The parents should certainly be the ones leading the discussion.</p>
<p>Haven't figured out how to quote stuff in replies ---</p>
<p>Goaliedad -- "I think your best option at this point is to ask for a deal whereby she can take her final exams proctored off-campus and upon completion (to the school's satisfaction) of a substance abuse program, her exams are accepted and the expulsion is changed to a suspension."</p>
<p>That idea is pretty refined for where my head has been this weekend, as I said, really just trying to not drown. But it is an excellent idea (thank you) and I will be sure to try to work it in. Assuming the school agrees with our position, ie. "our D needs help now that you've helped us to identify a problem", and does not come down hard on their "it was two but now it's one-strike-you're-out" policy (a very, very real possibility).</p>
<p>I think this idea goes to the heart of the issue, that neither the school nor we can accept her going forward without dealing with this issue. And at the same time, tying "redemption" to completing a program that addresses the problem head on.</p>
<p>Given that I've gone this far in laying out the problem, I'll share my concerns that she may not accept that it's truly a problem. Given the millieu in which (we now know) these kids operate, I think it's hard for her to see it that way.</p>
<p>I've worked with recovering alcoholics, in one form or another, for two decades. I understand this problem extremely well. And unless the alcoholic/addict acknowledges to themselves that they have a problem, and will do whatever it takes to get away from it, these programs don't usually take. (they sometimes plant seeds that bear fruit years later though, but only after horrific pain sometimes.) My concern is that she perceives that the rules are the problem, not the chemicals, since she hasn't really incurred any consequences from the chemicals in and of themselves. (e.g. no DUIs, blackouts)</p>
<p>But as I see it, she could not overcome the temptation to indulge, multiple times, even though she was VERY aware of the consequences. In fact, I am aware that there were multiple instances when she chose not to indulge, simply because of the risk. But then, obviously, there were also many times when she did. So she knew the risks, but chose to indulge anyway on multiple occasions.</p>
<p>At her first offense, she lost everything. She was forced to give up most of her ECs, and in some of those ECs she was at the top of the heap. She was humiliated, depressed, but still tried to bounce back and contribute what she could. She is so well liked at the school that everyone pulled for her, and in some ways she continued to "unofficially" fulfill the same roles.</p>
<p>Our advice to her (earlier this year): Don't do ANYTHING to endanger your graduation. We all knew, and discussed several times, the very clear risks, that with one more offense, she would be gone.</p>
<p>I'm going on a bit, but to bring it back to my point: I am hoping that, even though she might not acknowledge the harm from the chemicals themselves (and I have to admit that I don't see a lot of that, YET, either), that she will recognize that the attraction/compulsion/seduction, whatever you want to call it was clearly a step into addictive-type behavior. And, if she can make get under that idea, then perhaps a program will "take". I hope and pray.</p>
<p>BayAreaDad- my heart breaks for you- you sound like such a good Dad. Teenagers do such stupid things. How do they ever survive? (or we survive them?) The last point that I would like to add to this discussion is that before tomorrow, you should make sure that there was no "purveying" involved. From my many years experience with east coast prep schools, I know they are much more draconian in their punishment of distribution than of use. I assume it's the same all over the country.</p>
<p>Her mother and I have discussed our concerns about college entry in the fall, multiple times. Even with the last offense, BAMom began to wonder what would happen at college. We've visited the college, and there was plenty of beer in the dorms (even though it's technically against the rules). There was also pot being smoked, WHILE my D was there on her overnight, according to her reports to us later. And this is a very good college, trust me.</p>
<p>So, given this development, we are certainly leaning towards delayed entry into college. She'll need some time to work of those legal fees, anyway. ;-)
And to give BADad a break after having been soaked for private school tuition. (OK, I'm being selfish here. But you know what? Been very unselfish, to the tune of $100k++, up until now.)</p>
<p>Got off track there a bit -- more seriously, we'll gauge how things are going w/r to the dependency issues before requiring a gap year. But it's reasonably likely at this point. I appreciate everyone's advice on this idea.</p>
<p>BhMom -- thankfully no "purveying" is involved. Just very ill-advised consumption. On that topic, I do expect the school to try to get her to name names, even this late in the year. I don't expect her to divulge such information, but that topic is a whole 'nother thread.</p>
<p>BADad - - since you mention pharmaceutical stimulants (as opposed to opiates), you should know that Adderall, for example, has become a real problem on college campuses. And sharing a controlled substance (such as Adderall) with a friend (even w/ no moeny involved) would constitute a "sale" in most jurisdictions.</p>
<p>Remember that unlike high school where meds are dispensed off campus by parents and on campuse by adults staff (house parents, school nurses or other health services personnel), in college students keep these meds (controlled substances) in their rooms and are responsible for self-medicating. </p>
<p>To handle such substances irresponsibly as a 2nd semester senior - - just months before matriculating - - shows supremely poor judgement and unpreparedness for the freedom/responsibility of young-adult college life. So don't fool yourself that just b/c this case involves Rx meds, as opposded to "street" drugs (and thus no law enforcement referral), that the offense is less serious, especially from the college's perspective, especailly since this is not a first offense.</p>
<p>Again, I don't mean to sound harsh or unfeeling. I'm just saying the h.s. issues are different than the college issues and you have to be prepared to address both sets of concerns; sugar-coating the issue will only undermine your efforts on your daughter's behalf.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>BADad, From what you say, your daughter was not the only one at her school abusing these drugs. Were any other students tested and caught? It doesn't really matter, I'm just curious.</p>
<p>I know that your statement that recovery programs don't "take" unless the addict is at the point where he/she wants to recover is true. But it seems to me, from what you say, that your daughter is not an addict, but more of a dabbler. If this is true, then isn't it likely that a program could help her even if she doesn't fully acknowledge the seriousness of what she did?</p>
<p>BADad,</p>
<p>I've said this on your other thread, but I just wanted to reiterate that whether or not you take a lawyer with you tomorrow, please consult with a lawyer BEFORE you or your daughter say anything to the school on Monday. If, for example, there was something legally amiss in her being drug tested, or if the particular test or lab used has reliablility issues, having your daughter incriminate herself may not be her best course of action. Clearly, she needs to acknowledge her problem with you and with whoever is providing her with treatment, but here the school is the adversary, not a friend. Please do not go into this conference without legal advice. (Also, an attorney experienced in dealing with young people and schools, and with great negotiation skills, will know whether or not s/he should accompany you.)</p>
<p>And bravo for the level-headed way you are facing and beginning to address your D's substance issues.</p>
<p>Stimulants such as Ritalins can indeed be addictive as well as readily available from other students who need the drug but don't like the slowing effects. And, of course, those who need the Ritalin are already risk-takers by neurology and sometimes would rather sell the drugs for the extra pocket money. This will be the case whether the D goes to college this year or next. But, of course, that's not the point here.</p>
<p>As many have noted, private schools do not operate the way public schools do, and I heartily agree with those, including BADad, who don't think having an attorney present is necessary. Yes, have one on hand to consult. And yes, if necessary, schedule another meeting WITH an attorney present. However, this future meeting needs to be as non-confrontational as possible. The student has no right to take exams or to even graduate as a private school student. The family needs to create an environment where the administration is more likely to concede on some points.</p>
<p>BADad, you might want to take the tack that attorneys (I'm not one) advise for their clients arrested for drug use or DWI: enroll your daughter in a program, or at least have the name of one, BEFORE you walk into that meeting. This shows that you are not downplaying the problem and that she has been forced to suffer some consequences. </p>
<p>You might want to list your goals in order, with a high school diploma at the top. If you can get through the most important one, then concentrate on the next.</p>
<p>In all this, I'm not sure a gap year is the answer since kids already in trouble tend to get into MORE trouble without the structure of classes and with circumstances that depress them (all their friends going off to college.) I'm speaking from family experience here.</p>
<p>I cannot begin to express my gratitude for the kind and thoughtful words that you all have shared over the past couple days. You have helped me develop plan of action that takes into account the substantial issues around this event.</p>
<p>We are leaving for the school now (a long trip), but will check back in for any final thoughts late tonight.</p>
<p>Nester, finding an attorney is priority 1 on Monday AM. We have a bit of time before the Inquisition starts. I was still in shock I guess on Friday and had only just started this task before the time ran out.</p>
<p>And I sadly acknowledge the transition to an adversarial relationship between our family and what was formerly a bright shining place our D's life. Well, mostly.</p>
<p>Wish us luck. Prayers are welcomed. Thanks again.</p>
<p>ok, one more post -- advice on attorney selection?</p>
<p>My own experience with lawyers has nearly exclusively been in the corporate (securities/startups) realm.</p>
<p>I had begun the search on Friday, but simply ran out of time. I believe that I should be looking for someone who specializes in Education primarily, with add'l expertise in any or all of these areas as well: Civil Rights, Criminal Law, Family Law. Not really clear on how to identify good negotiating skills. I would normally turn to a corporate lawyer for that, but I don't expect to find that particular combination of skills, realistically.</p>
<p>Definitely go for somebody with education law experience.</p>
<p>If you have a strong relationship with a securities lawyer, ask him for a referral.</p>
<p>BADad, sent you a PM regarding attnys; but EMMI's suggestion of a referral from an attny w/ whom you have a relationship is also a good one.</p>
<p>You would do best with an attorney who knows the school, the school's attorney, the way the school works. I consulted with educational specialists who had no idea where they stood with a private school. The best thing you can do is try to get names of families whose kids have dealt with issues of this sort with the school. Perhaps they will know some attornies. It was a saving grace for us that our attorney had dealt with the school and the school's attorney before. It cut a lot of time out of the ordeal, and no legal actions were done. It was just taken care of over the phone.</p>
<p>At my DD's private HS, there were a number of parent/attorneys who were very familiar with the workings of the school and the policies (sometimes from experience with their own kids). </p>
<p>Good luck with this.</p>
<p>In our public school the admin. consistently lied/left out info. and intimidated the parents in meetings such as these.They would agree to one thing and then state they never agreed in the next meeting. I would not step foot in the door without an attorney.</p>
<p>I just consulted my attorney husband who has both criminal and civil practice in his history. He says definitely take an attorney to the meeting. I told him logistically this is unlikely, and brought up the concerns about an attorney creating more of an intransigent outcome rather than room to negotiate. He disagreed and said an attorney would ask the right questions to fully understand the reasoning behind their positions rather than challenging them at all on the spot. He says that if you go without representation to the first meeting you are to listen, and then to suggest when you leave that you might request a final meeting with them in a few days with your daughter's attorney to review the options or to pose final questions regarding their position.<br>
My husband says..that if they ask for Names of other users or who/gave/sold the pills to her..that you could opt to not discuss in the first meeting, while conceding that of course they would want to ask and want to protect the rest of the school, but to sorrowfully state, you will be discussing this with your daughter and her attorney and you will get back to them once you fully understand what they want and what is best for her.<br>
My husband said that whether or not she fully discloses all circumstances/players is something that could be a bargaining chip or at least something that should be mulled over and consequences to all considered in the privacy of your home. You should have your attorney explain confidentiality to you again and give your attorney time with your daughter. He also suggested that your attorney might be present in the second meeting rather than in the first, and that he could make proposals or explore the final positions taken with you at the second meeting. </p>
<p>He quoted an instance when three mates of ours were suspended and dismissed for a spring semester in college (violation...overnight opposite sex guests repeatedly..breaking the rules of that era), but he reminded me that the only one of them who retained an attorney was able to graduate on time..the others came back and did their final semesters the next year after a suspension and loss of an entire semester.<br>
I would go into meeting one with a respectful, sorrowful, active listening mode on Monday, with a request for a brief time to process the school's position, and with a request to get back to them in a day or two, and do make a mention of consulting finally with an attorney to make sure you fully understand how to represent your daughter's options with colleges while you are also exploring her best treatment plan for substance abuse.<br>
OK I revealed I live near Hillbilly heroin country but I am also a social worker with some mental health job experiences. Which is why my next paragraph does not sound lawyerly.</p>
<p>Try to view the school as a fair good parent, since one reason you sent her there is because you viewed them as custodial good parents during her formative years. You must retain some distance as you must look outward also and be your daughter's best advocate and shepherd, but acknowledge that they are doing their job well, and that being a good parent is tough and unpleasant at times. Of course they wanted her to succeed and reap the benefits of her talents next fall. Acknowledge that they had a significant role in her wonderful college merit scholarship. Acknowledge that they are functioning as morally sound adults. They can be right. Let them be in the right. But you do have a different role to play in terms of your role as a father.</p>
<p>I would try as best as I could to continue on viewing this school as a Bright Shiny Place in your darling girl's life, and to resist feeling that it has become a nightmare/adversarial place. Be grateful that her lack of judgment was revealed early, and not after a year at college. College is full of pressures to perform while social life pressures also are magnified. Thank them for caring about running a drug free school and for being willing to back it up. Tell them about the ways the school has contributed to your daughter's growth, and let them know that her risky behavior does not obliterate your family's appreciation for the school. </p>
<p>(my son at college tells me that everyone "wishes" for Ritalin/Adderal in exam weeks, and it is a common thing that is brought up at college now that a significant portion of students are taking these meds in house...obviously...we hear about students buying these drugs at colleges, although I have not been told this...about my son's school..the kids of today know these drugs are better/more effective than the NoDoze I recall buying in gas stations when I had exams.)<br>
Although you were kind to me when I nattered on about opiates in Appalachian young adults, I also live in the neighborhood that was named in a Newsweek article a few years ago...where an unsupervised high school weekend party ended up with a dead middle class boy who decided to grind up someone's Ritalin and inhale it...maybe it was his Ritalin..I don't recall. The parents were out of town, and are friends of mine...and I can't tell you how wonderful these unfortunate parents are. Their virtues are legion. Also, there is significant literature on stimulants being useful for attention deficits but potentially creating psychosis to mere hypomania in young adults who may have tendencies to a major mental illness in the directions of bipolar illness. Sometimes you don't know till the hypomania appears...all information that makes taking stimulants also sobering and potentially negative for some people in ways a teen is incapable of appreciating.</p>
<p>Thank them for all the good things, including their role in this "reveal." Have her thank them for all the good things. Ask them for their help, and assure them that she has lost some of your trust/confidence and that your family is in a total huddle and will be regrouping and reassessing her next year plan, but that you want their help in getting her to a drug aversive outlook.</p>
<p>You don't have to have all the answers in this interview! Retain your right to be "coming to terms" with this. You don't have to have it all figured out. For instance, before you make any final statements on her ability to matriculate to college in August, tell them you will want full statements from alcohol/drug professionals AFTER she has been in treatment for a while...in other words...it is not the SCHOOL that will have the final say in her freshman year schedule...the jury is going to be OUT until you have further information from drug/alcohol program professionals of your choice.</p>
<p>If you have a friend, or you know someone who knows someone on a local public school board, I would consider giving them a call this weekend. Our local school board's attorney is in my Book Club, and she knows which attorneys represent the interests of students facing disciplinary charges in the public schools well, although she represents the school's position. My spouse is also an attorney, and one of his partners is chair of a school board. These sort of civilians who are already tied to schools as volunteer leaders sometimes know the right kind of attorneys who do not alienate administrators. Do you know anyone who is an administrator in a community college or other college who could steer you to a local person with the right interpersonal skills/experience? Also, I would dial the numbers of anyone you know on staff currently at the local drug/alcohol rehab hospital for ideas re attorney. You would be surprised to know that these people all know each other in changing roles and circumstances for other clients.</p>
<p>You have every right to leave your cell number and a brief statement of need on the phone of an attorney (or 2 or 3)today, asking if they could call you this evening or first thing in the morning. I would also consider calling a Family practice attorney and simply asking for references. Dial a few numbers, get a few names while you are on the road. </p>
<p>Best wishes to a healthy future and we are all sorry for the pain your family is experiencing.</p>
<p>So much good advice. I am 100% on board with faline's last post. </p>
<p>I would not go into this mtg with an adversarial approach. After all, these are the people with whom you've trusted your daughter for (presumably) years. I like all faline's advice about acknowleding that they are working to keep the campus and kids safe. I would make sure they know you already have been pursuing substance-abuse counseling for your daughter (and if you haven't you should today, before the mtg). Without an attorney, I would say as little as possible (will your dd be in the mtg? If so, make sure she stays quiet as well). And when you leave make sure they know you have been consulting with an attorney and will likely be contacting them for a follow-up mtg.</p>
<p>Early on, you mentioned an issue in sophomore year with alcohol. What were the circumstances/consequences surrounding that incident? I guess when I first read your post I thought, "Oh, man, they are coming down hard on someone who probably did the Adderall-at-finals thing." (Not that I think that's OK; I use to live on Oreos and Coke to keep me awake at semester's end). But now I'm getting the impression there is a lot more going on. Good luck to all of you.</p>
<p>So much depends on the school's administration and how compassionate they can bring themselves to be. I AM an attorney, and had to negotiate a settlement for someone near and dear to me re: departure just prior to the end of 8th grade from an elite private day school. I was not dealing with reasonable people, and the other kid involved in the incident (a fight which my "client" did not start) had a meanier, scarier lawyer-dad who had already sued the school once. My situation was easier than end of senior year, but it still left the kid high and dry without a school to attend for 9th grade since all appropriate spots were filled. I got a voluntary withdrawal, nothing negative on the record and the kid got to finish all courses (2 weeks left) and finals off-campus. Kid was not allowed to attend "graduation" (8th grade) and wasn't recognized as Headmaster's List or whatever it was called. It was very traumatic for all concerned- truly a life-event- and I can only imagine the magnitude of pain BADad and his family are enduring.<br>
It's no secret around here that I have been through the mill with one of my kids, and I am here to tell you that you WILL get through it and your daughter WILL get back on her feet. She didn't get that merit scholarship and get through that prep school without having a lot of smarts and personality. The fact that she has gotten into some really risky behaviors is so common these days, and it is not easy to bring them around to realizing that the risks are simply NOT worth the consequences. They are just so smart and so entitled that they simply think they will not be caught! She is probably not addicted to this drug, but the fact that she (as do many kids) keeps making these bad choices is the thing that needs to be addressed by a good program. If money were no object, I have some good suggestions. :)<br>
I keep changing my mind about whether or not you should go in with an attorney. I lean towards No, but Faline made some good points. Unfortunately, these schools and the little Gods that run them have all the cards.
Not that it is much help, but rest assured that I feel like I am walking every step of this with you.</p>