Agreed. And there are plenty of highly talented kids who go to public universities or lower ranked private ones to follow the money of getting merit aid
@politeperson Hm maybe I misunderstand but she does want an academic experience. That’s why she’s asking for a place with small classes. She wants a lot of interaction with professors from the beginning. She just doesn’t want to be overwhelmed and, at this point anyway, I don’t think she’s a strong enough candidate for schools that are “too intense”. I know Davidson can be stressful. Starting to think it may not be the best fit on the list.
She’s also shown concern that she’s not sure about a major so she wants a place where professors take an interest in the kids early on and can help guide her as well as a place that has a strong career center.
But, yes, she also wants some traditional college fun and more a social life than a place like Bowdoin is offering S19. She wants a balance.
Yes I agree. When we visited Denison with S19, our tour guide and his roommate definitely fell into the cohort of kids who could have been accepted at a lot of schools but followed the money. They were both very impressive.
I also agree that she should just look at the schools to see what they offer her. But there are two tiny problems with that. One, she wants to be surrounded by peers and I agree that the students around you make a big difference in the academic experience. And, two, she’s practically looking for a unicorn school. Suburban but 2000-6000 kids, school spirit, option to live on campus for at least three of the years, no need to declare a major until mid soph year, not too hard to get there (ok that’s more about my husband’s and my preference). Add option to dance without being a major and the list becomes very small. I feel like most mid-sized, suburban universities are either super selective or Catholic/Jesuit.
So should she look for what a school can offer her? Of course. But finding one she can get into the hard part!
@homerdog yes, I wasn’t questioning her interest in academics but she does not appear to want the intensity that many in that top group probably do. A Princeton say, or Bowdoin. My point is that her criteria don’t match what many top students will prioritize but do match what many of those kids she sees as average (or their parents) prioritize, whether they’re from her HS or others. All the criteria you list above are independent of whether the average kids or the top kids from her school go there, so I’m saying encourage her to focus on those and not whether average kids at her HS will be wearing the same sweatshirt.
@homerdog Has your D listed her priorities in order? In other words, what are the “desires,” and what are the “nonnegotiable” items? You might try getting her to think about that since it’s difficult to get everything she want in one place.
@politeperson Great point!
@homerdog, Totally agree about many of the midsize suburban schools being Catholic. Richmond and Wake Forest seems like terrific fits. I can’t remember if it has been brought up yet, so forgive me if I am duplicating efforts, but have you thought about University of Miami? 10K students, amazing school spirit, new freshman dorm near completion. My D20 really liked it there and I was impressed the students we met. Your D would probably qualify for decent merit there. I believe one concern for her will be the number of students who live off campus. I think it is something like 60% of students live off, but that number should go down with the new dorm being built.
I agree that the University of Miami is worth checking out. I don’t agree about the merit…she needs higher scores.
I know one girl who received $20,000 a year, but her scores were higher.
My friend’s S is currently there and received a huge scholarship essentially covering everything, including summer research in Australia etc…but …his stats were really, really high.
I think the U of Miami is definitely worth looking into.
I don’t know Dance, but aside from that SMU fits all the other requirements (well, and kids are required to live on campus for the first 2 years, don’t know how many do after that).
SMU was my S13’s (HS grad year) safety that he attended coming from an elitist top boarding school. He was provincial as he was only familiar with the north east. That’s one reason we wanted him to go to college in another part of the country. He probably thought there would be a bunch of yokels at the school. I vividly remember him saying to me his freshman year “Mom, the kids here are REALLY SMART!”
SMU’s acceptance rate is light years away from Davidson; my point is your daughter might have an easier chance of admission at a school like SMU and she would absolutely be as challenged as she wants to be, and surrounded by very smart kids.
i have a current freshman at Wake, not sure if it’s been said but Wake offers little no no merit $$ and is test optional.
SMU also gives merit$
Also Wake is medium size, suburban, D1 athletics with a lot of school spirit, declare major sophomore year, must live in campus housing for 3 years, small class size, GSO airport only 40 minutes from campus, kids from all geographic areas, active social scene but also serious academics, students are collaborative rather than competitive, I believe they have dance also
An observation on students not meeting their perceived score potential: for many students, mid-junior year is too early to settle for status quo test scores, no matter how many times they happen to have tested. Some will score higher naturally the later they test. And as a separate matter, some will score higher with even a modicum of high-quality one-on-one tutoring.
@UGG2023 yes Wake ticks almost if not all boxes.
Are you all taking about Miami of OH? If so then yes she qualifies for merit already with a 29. They list out merit by ACT score on their website.
No to SMU. Our neighbor’s daughter is there. She’s liking it but I’m not thrilled with a lot of things I’ve heard about it from said neighbor. It’s just not quite right for D.
@homerdog, I was referring to The University of Miami in Florida, not Miami of OH. Sorry for the confusion!
Another midwest parent in high achieving school who can share that test optional can be an option for the otherwise talented kid who just isnt a multiple-choice test taker. My kid was a recruited athlete, so I do not know how much that played into TO working for him. We were only looking at schools where he could get significant (1/2 tuition) merit, so for him, it was not a question of getting admitted but of getting enough money. From adcoms remarks to him through his process, I think the fact his application told a coherent story and reflected his strengths and values is what led to more merit money than was predicted, even when he went ED as a recruit. So test optional can work for high achieving kids.
Conn Coll, Wake (though I hear that, for TO kids, the interview really matters as does the gpa), Dickinson, Denison, Bates are all test optional and seem to align with many of OP’s kid’s views.
You know, in this long thread, I can’t recall if anyone recommended looking at Brandeis or University of Rochester. Those schools are not as hard to get into as some others your daughter has considered. Yet they are respected top tier research centers that are also relatively small in student body size. Where I live, they often are the second choices for students trying for Ivies, and the first choices of some other strong students. In the past two years, that is where our local high school’s valedictorians went: one to Brandeis and one to U of Rochester.
They meet many of her criteria, except Brandeis does not have a football team. U of R has some Greek life. They both have a somewhat ‘nerdy’ feel, Brandeis a bit more so. So maybe Rochester would have more of the rah-rah vibe she craves, although it is not even remotely approaching the big sports culture of a southern or midwestern sports giant.
I know Skidmore and Connecticut College were also mentioned.
We considered Brandeis, Skidmore, and Connecticut College to be all about the same level of admissions difficulty when we were touring. We did not visit Rochester, just because our kid already had liked the first three, and Rochester was farther from our home. I think your daughter would stand a good chance at any of these four colleges, the first three of which are even test-optional. These are examples of colleges that provide a top quality academic education and have intellectually oriented students, yet do not have impossibly low admissions odds.
The University of Rochester is an amazing school, but I don’t think it has the type of school spirit that this student is looking for. I see it as a better match for the OP’s son.
We looked at it and my D was offered a scholarship prior to applying (through our HS). It has the “nerdiness.”…not the big rah rah.
Agree with @twogirls about Rochester and also think Brandeis is not going to have the spirit/social vibe OP’s D is looking for. But she might like Conn College, and if she can get past the Catholic affiliation Villanova could be a great choice.
@homerdog I have had two children accepted at Wake, one RD and the other ED. I can probably give you some helpful guidance. Feel free to PM me.