Daughter is ready to give up

Parents Forum
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<p>Hugs to you, Partyof4. It’s always difficult to see one of our kids hurting. </p>

<p>You’ve already been given a ton of excellent advice. It’s great that the lines are communication are open between the two of you and that she is talking to you.</p>

<p>I would encourage her (even gently push her, if you have to) to do some kind of activity. I am a big fan of sports, because when you are active and keeping your body healthy, you feel better in general. Maybe she can still try out for her sport. She may make the varsity team, and even if she sits on the bench more than she plays, she still can enjoy the social aspect of being part of a team. If not her previous sport, maybe she is willing to try a new sport; it doesn’t even have to be at school. It could be a club or travel team. If she doesn’t want to do sports, what about the arts? Maybe drama club, dance, chorus, church choir…whatever. Theater/arts folks are usually a welcoming and fun crowd. </p>

<p>Best of luck to her and let us know how it goes.</p>

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<p>Exactly alwayslearn - my D doesn’t have to do the sport I pick but she has to do one sport per year (or at least tryout). If she doesn’t want to do that then she has to explain how she will stay active and then do that. This is required both for social and for fitness.</p>

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<p>Weight lifting? Or you and she join a gym for the fun of it (mommy and me). Movement will help with the mild depression (situational it sounds like, not a true chemical imbalance).</p>

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<p>Not all bright and capable kids can thrive in the main stream high school system. My eldest was a passionate, gifted student until high school got a hold of her. She went from an individualized education in an excellent public school that valued her time and her voice to a one-size-fits-all high school. She was grossly under-challenged in classes marked “advanced, honors, AP.” She was assigned 4 to 5 hours of busy work a night. Work she didn’t need to gain mastery. She pushed herself through freshman year but sophomore year she fell apart. She was surrounded by apathy. She tried to reach out to staff and they either resented her trying to push them outside of their teaching comfort zone or commiserated but totally impotent. Other kids seemed to be managing better but they didn’t need the same things she did. They could roll their eyes and vent about a teacher, just focus on grades and not stress so much about what they felt they weren’t learning. Some even resented D for asking hard questions in class, for pushing for discussion, for trying to force the curriculum to connect with real life. For her mental health and intellectual stimulation go hand-in-hand while other brilliant kids could naturally separate that. So, D got angry, rebellious and then depressed. Her grades started dropping… A’s on her tests, F’s in homework. She pulled away from her friends and from us. She was in quality passion-based activities but they could not make up for the 7 hours she spent at school and the 4-5 hours she spent on homework each night (and having the activities made it impossible to get more than 6 hours a sleep a night.) In the end, she stopped caring about them too. We knew something drastic had to happen and we pulled her out of the school and moved her to a high school/college hybrid program where she takes most of her classes at the community college. She came back to life, back to love, back to friends, back to activities, back to being eager for school every morning. She’s now 16, a senior and thriving with a 4.75 GPA the last 3 semesters. Yes, sophomore year hurts her college applications (overall GPA still not recovered) but I actually question whether she would have even graduated had she had to spend 2 more years in that system.</p>

<p>I don’t know what the situation is for your own child but I wanted to share our story. I can’t say what it right for you and your child but I’d at least look into alternative educational choices. Plenty of kids do just great in the system. Others get through well-enough… maybe not thrilled but not in despair. Then there are kids who just need something different.</p>

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<p>The main point I would make is that she and you don’t HAVE TO put up with the school crap. No one’s holding a gun to your heads. And you don’t have to simply supplement the crap with better stuff on the outside (which will make her schedule even more extreme).</p>

<p>There are lots of alternatives once you think outside of the box.</p>

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<p>Echoing what Mini said, try to remember that school is a CHOICE. The local school is a choice. An alternative school may offer more freedom, and it’s a choice. Homeschooling is a choice. Combining school (however you define that) with college work is a choice.</p>

<p>Each choice has benefits, and costs. The local public school doesn’t cost you extra money, apart from your taxes. It’s got a schedule built in, classes you ‘need’ are offered on a regular basis, and it is the default social norm. It also has a rigid schedule, classes that may be useless for a student at the time they are required to take them, and the ‘social norm’ may not be in the best interest of a particular individual.</p>

<p>An alternative school may offer more flexiblity in coursework, may attract more committed students, and may allow for a wider range of acceptance of personalities. It costs money from your monthly/yearly budget, may require more family volunteer time, and may be too small to offer the classes an individual is interested in. It may have a more “unique” philosophy that one needs to adhere to, and sometimes that isn’t obvious at first.</p>

<p>Homeschool has a lot of flexibility in schedule and coursework. Using local resourses, it can be very cost-effective. It can also, however, be expensive (compared to “free” public school). Depending on one’s choices :slight_smile: It requires more work connecting to other peers (of all ages). </p>

<p>The point is to just remember that almost anything we do is a choice we have made. Often, however, we don’t realize that we chose it, we just roll along and do it. It is very liberating to realize that you have a say in how you organize your own life.</p>

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<p>I think a physical and a session/evaluation with a psychologist might be in order to rule out any issues in those areas. Discussion on what options she has should to change her situations might be in order. Going abroad, home studies of sorts, any early college programs. Should look into the possibilities. </p>

<p>Or she might just have to grin and bear it, if neither she nor you can come up with ideas. That’s what a lot of people have to do, you know.</p>

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<p>We have a son that went through a similar frustration, twice. I also suggest you think outside the school box we lock so many kids inside.</p>

<p>Our son came home in Sept of 8th grade and declared he was bored, not learning much, and unhappy. My reaction was “welcome to life”, but wife replied “make us a proposal”. We both work full time, so “home schooling” was not a real option. He came back and proposed a series of volunteer opportunities with social and environmental community organizations. We figured he was academically ready for high school anyway, so why not try it. If he bombs, the public school always has to take him back. He thrived, organizing his days, riding his bike and the bus all over town, and mostly working with adults. He was actually a very busy boy. He is now a HS senior, and is still working with several of these organizations he started with in 8th grade at increasingly higher levels of responsibility and training. Turns out he was not thrilled being surrounded by middle school kids, but worked well with adults.</p>

<p>He went to 9th and 10th grade and just killed it academically, but then didn’t see where that was going for two more years!.. so he went to Austria as an exchange student (through Rotary) for his junior year of HS. Came back totally independent, confident, and excited about life and his future, and also completely fluent in German at a level that qualified him for German University. Applying to colleges, he applied to several LAC’s and so far all the EA responses have included acceptance with the highest merit aid advertized, and a finalist for a couple of prestigious scholarships, blah, blah, blah… By the CC metrics, it looks like he will do fine in the college lottery. I might even be able to retire someday.</p>

<p>I am the traditionalist stick in the mud at our house, but son number two has really taught me it is not always doing “what you are supposed to do” that gets you ahead. It is about finding what makes you fulfilled, grows you personally, and gives you energy and direction. School is a tool to use in that pursuit, but there are many other paths that lead to success. You just need enough good grades to show that you can do it. Then what else do you have to offer.</p>

<p>I have also started to wonder whether segregating kids with their peers is good for some kids, or just more convenient for adults.</p>

<p>Your mileage may vary. My first son was a much more traditional animal.</p>

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<p>I know a number of kids who came to the same conclusion, and therefore graduated a year early from high school and headed off to college. All that I know have done fine that way. Doesn’t mean it always so works, but that is a solution too.</p>

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<p>My daughter has always (even now in college) done better socially with guys than girls (she has no tolerance for cattiness). How about your daughter try breaking into a group of guys who have common interests with her (because breaking into a clique of girls is never going to happen)</p>

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<p>Mini, great post!</p>

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<p>There is a lot of very good, thoughtful advice in this thread, and I don’t want to belittle it. This may be a situation in which professional intervention would be valuable, and it may make sense to think about radical educational alternatives.</p>

<p>But also, maybe not. My reaction on reading the OP was “The first half of 10th grade is always sort of a nadir.” I missed it, because my parents had the good sense to send me away to Spain that year, but I remember all my friends had a terrible time that year, they were all fighting with their parents, trying drugs, having existential crises. My older child basically stopped trying in school for a while, and was terribly unhappy. We actually did the stuff people recommend here – had her see a therapist, switched schools, had her get a job. </p>

<p>Things got better, but I think they would have gotten better in most important ways even if we had not done those things. My kid thought the therapy was useless, and the therapist agreed she was not providing value. Switching schools wound up being interesting, and a good experience, but she essentially kept all the same friends, and was of course the same person. Her job wound up being a source of real satisfaction and success, not to mention the freedom of having her own money. She also quit ballet (on which she had been spending about 20 hrs/week) and took up tap, with less intensity and a lot more fun.</p>

<p>But really what happened is that she and the other girls she knew started feeling more comfortable with themselves, and less critical of each other. The cliques that had formed along battle lines of alcohol and sex became unstable, broke up, and re-formed in looser configurations. Girls who wanted to have sex had sex, but stopped letting that dominate their lives. Girls who didn’t want to have sex stopped feeling threatened by the ones who did . . . and sometimes changed their minds. They didn’t always know what to do to get boys to pay attention to them, but they were more willing to try things and more confident about it, less desperate that no one would ever want them. </p>

<p>It was largely a matter of being 16, and then going on 17, etc. Just awful for a parent to have to watch, but what emerged from the process were fine, successful young women.</p>

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<p>Teach her how to fly an airplane → perspective + unique.</p>

<p>Also, nice one, compmom, #29.</p>

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<p>I learned how to fly a plane–my perspective was that you could get killed doing this…</p>

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<p>I could have written your post 3 years ago. Actually, I did write a post like yours. What your daughter is experiencing is very common in gifted girls, especially those in competitive, high-pressure schools. At schools like that, the work load is very heavy, so that honors classes really become all about endurance rather than learning.</p>

<p>Please monitor your D’s mental health very carefully. We ended up pulling our daughter out of her top-notch public school at the end of her sophomore year and sending her to a lesser known private Christian school. It was the best decision we could have made.</p>

<p>She thrived during her two years there, made a lot of very close friends, and had a much healthier work life balance. She ended up as salutatorian of her class, scored a 2340 on her SAT (she had even questioned the need for this test during her misery phase) and is now a very happy first year student at Wellesley.</p>

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<p>I still think you need to address the academic issues that she needs, or feels she needs, to spend an excessive amount of time on her homework. Perhaps start by recording how much time she is spending on each assignment, for say a week. Perhaps looking at those numbers will be helpful in convincing her that really, she doesn’t want to devote that many hours to class x, and motivate her to be more efficient. Does she know what the teachers are expecting? It might be helpful to discuss with them that she is spending excessive time on the class. Or before she starts her work, decide how much time each assignment is worth and set timers to help her stay on track. If she is headed into AP classes next year, the time committment is likely to jump significantly and I worry about what will happen to her then. Is she taking an unusually heavy courseload? Would it help to take a study hall, or at least to schedule one for next year when her classes will be harder?</p>

<p>The various suggestions of trying new activities are good (although I do think she would be best off if she manages to find at least one good friend at school; finding connections in the community is better than nothing but won’t do as much to make her like school) but she has to address how to get her work done, because those new activities will all take time, and if she then ends up staying up half the night doing homework, not sleeping, things will just get worse.</p>

<p>My senior daughter has a very demanding courseload and with all the college applications this fall, the past three months were quite difficult. Except for a few breaks, she’s been working non-stop when she’s home, not getting quite enough sleep and we rarely have had time for simple family activities. But the worst is behind us now. I cannot even imagine living like that for all of high school.</p>

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<p>I agree with taking your daughter’s concerns very seriously, and first ruling out anxiety and depression. Your story is one I am hearing way too often recently, which makes me very sad. I feel like our current educational system is sucking the life out of our children (especially the gifted, sensitive, and creative). Our kids have so much homework and stress that they don’t have time to explore who they are or what makes them happy, let alone actually DO the things that feed their souls. My daughter went through a bit of an existential crisis at the same age. We had her tested at Johnson O’Connor, so that she could learn what her natural aptitudes were. We then moved her to a smaller high school, where the emphasis was on learning and creativity, as opposed to grades and class rank. Her social life was non-existent during this transition, so I became her best friend. As she explored new interests, I tagged along, cheered her on, and spent way too much money on all of her new hobbies. She is now a senior, and she has been accepted to the colleges of her choice. She has also made new friends, so I’m no longer her go-to weekend buddy. I would just encourage you to keep listening to your daughter, keep taking her concerns seriously, and keep helping her explore who she is. There’s a light at the end of the high school tunnel, but it’s not an easy journey these days.</p>

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<p>This.</p>

<p>Sophomore year is hard. The kids are so insecure and can be “mean” to others to try and fit in. It can be very hurtful to the more sensitive kids. I find that Junior year is when the walls come down and students begin to actually “see” each other.</p>

<p>Sophomores are also the forgotten students on campus (IMO). Freshmen get a lot of attention while they are transitioning to HS, Juniors are getting ready for SAT’s and college selections, Seniors…well we all know what goes on there.</p>

<p>Has she spoken to her GC about how miserable she is? It would be appropriate to put in a call if she is not comfortable. Also, are her classes at the right level for her? If she feels she is doing too much busy work, she may need more challenging material. She shouldn’t be spending an exorbitant amount of time on homework she feels isn’t worth it (that would frustrate anyone).</p>

<p>I might also be inclined to set up a meeting with you, her and all of her teachers to get an idea of how they view her ability, interaction with her peers, etc. Sometimes, what she is perceiving may not be entirely accurate (not that she is making it up, just she may be slightly off). I have seen kids who think “no one” likes them when there is very little evidence to support that.</p>

<p>I am not trying to play down your D’s feelings. As a parent, I would also be concerned. If all else fails, and you are worried about her mental health and general well being, I would look into alternative schooling options as others have mentioned. There is more than one way to get an education.</p>

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<p>When my D wanted to quit her sport after 9th grade, I understood… she did not have a lot in common with her volleyball teammates. But I told her she HAD to do something active, but it didn’t have to be a school team. I suggested yoga classes, horseback riding lessons, or fencing. She picked fencing, and ended up really enjoying it for the next few years. She mostly club fenced (so a couple of practices a week, and at least at our club it was super flexible so if she couldn’t go it didn’t matter). Great coach, but low key if that is what she wanted. She ended up competing in tournaments her senior year just to try it, and won 5th in the state in her weapon (amazing to all involved!). But the best part is what CRD said above, it is a sport for smart kids, and she may find it to her liking for that reason.</p>

<p>My D also loved Quiz Bowl, and got involved with Robotics as well. Debate and speech are other possible activities that appeal to smart kids if they are okay with public speaking. If they have Academic Decathlon at her school or any Science Olympiad activities, those are also options.</p>

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<p>I’m confused by all the posts suggesting that the OP’s D go to a more difficult high school (or immediately to college) when the OP reports that she is spending hours and hours on homework each night. To me, that doesn’t read as a kid who is not challenged but rather as one who may be over her head academically. This can be really, really difficult emotionally for students who have excelled in school before and may explain some of the D’s isolation. If you’re feeling overwhelmed already, you probably don’t want to pick up a new time-consuming EC… but you limit your social circle in doing so, which adds social stress to academic stress.</p>