<p>It is still early in the process for her, but if she has trouble taking ownership of her responsibilities, procrastinates or doesn’t put in full effort, she may need to stay closer to home for the first few years of college until she is better able to manage these things successfully. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your thoughts and wisdom. I’ve taken the SAT book and the college books and put them in the attic. It’s a battle I’m not willing to have anymore. My honest assessment of the situation is that my daughter has had everything handed to her by an over doting mother who wants to make everything perfect for her. She’s never had to do anything on her own because I’m always running interference for her and not letting her make mistakes. It’s time to step away from it and let her take the lead. We’re supposed to go see a college she has shown an interested in this coming weekend. I’ll let her know it’s up to her to register for that if she still wants to go. </p>
<p>Her BFF has always done better than her in school and she always seems to “lose” to her. I think that has had a great affect on her as well. I think she stopped trying because she feels like she can never win. </p>
<p>As for her scores, yes it was a 1590 (1030 with just M & CR). I made her take it at the end of sophomore year because she had just finished Geometry/Alg II as an honors course (struggled to get an 85) and I thought it would be the best time because it was all fresh in her mind. In hindsight she says she wishes she hadn’t taken it as an honors course because covering two years of math in one year was too much and she didn’t learn as much as she could have. This year she has regular level PreCalc and she’s doing much better. Math seems to be the biggest struggle for her on the SAT. I’ve offered tutors, online courses, etc. and her answer is always “I’ll do it on my own” although that never happens. Can’t get her to crack a book. She’s in an AP English/History class where her unweighted grades are in the 90s so I’m a little confused by all the negative comments about her grades. Maybe I just didn’t do the calculations correctly? She will never get into the Ivyies but it’s not like we’re even looking there. As I see it, her SAT is what is holding her back, not her grades. We are not shooting for the stars here. Her one super reach school will be TCNJ. </p>
<p>She wants to go away to college (does not want to commute or go to CC) but I feel like she thinks it will all just drop in her lap. I told her that just because she can get into college doesn’t mean that I’ll pay for it if she’s not willing to work a little harder now to get a better SAT score. I told her if she breaks 600 on each section I’ll leave her alone and she won’t have to take it again senior year. I don’t think that’s pushing too hard. As I said, her school averages are 470, 440, 450 so her GC thinks she’s doing great. 
But for now I’m done. You can drag a horse to water but can’t make it drink. I have stepped away from the topic before and hoped she would become motivated but it just doesn’t happen. She knows her options are college, CC or she gets a job. I have not made her get a job before. Her job has been grades and ECs. The free ride disappears if she doesn’t continue her education. She has no interest whatsoever in the military and I really think that is more a calling than college. I would never make her enlist. But since she does no research, never goes on the college websites, doesn’t check with her GC, I’m afraid she’ll start missing deadline. If only she could see the potential I see in her. I don’t think she sees herself as worthy of a bright future, just others. :/</p>
<p>This web-site can leave the impression that most HS’ers are highly-motivated “A” students on track to stellar scores, GPAs, and Ivy-caliber colleges. Not a true picture of the average “good student” HS’er, however. Plenty of HS students need to be sheparded, led, and prodded by a parent towards initiating, and then navigating the college application process. It’s a complicated process filled with uncertainty. Certainly seems to average teenager that life-altering decisions must be made when they’re not necessarily readily to do so.</p>
<p>Start the college search process yourself, and set some parameters: how far away, how expensive (calculate the costs on NPCs on college websites), how large/small, what academic programs of interest, etc. Find some candidate schools, and do some campus visits with her. (I did do “parents’ spread-sheet of candidate schools” for our DS, together we visited on Open House days - sometimes several times for DS’ favorites; DS chosing from a dozen “mutual good fit” schools made it much easier for DS and for us.)</p>
<p>Our area’s community colleges are of poor quality with extremely low graduation rates, and not a viable alternative for the B+ student. Most of the students are low-achievers who drop-in to drop-out, and few transfer to 4-year programs.</p>
<p>However, there are many solid-quality Tier 2 schools that seek students just like your daughter. A good start is the “Colleges that Change Students Lives” book, to understand the academic approach of small liberal-arts colleges. This type of school can have very generous need and merit financial aid, and often can compete financially with state public college and university attendance costs.</p>
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<p>You are concerned about perhaps being overly involved but this is itself a very significant intervention. My suggestion is to leave them out…</p>
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<p>But not battle over them. </p>
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<p>But she might think it is pushing too hard. If she believes (rightly or wrongly) that 600 on both sections is unattainable, then this round number is an insurmountable obstacle in her eyes. Why, then, would she want to look seriously into college?</p>
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<p>The flip side of hearing that one has great potential is the implication that one is falling short in not fulfilling the perceived potential. In other words, that one is not worthy.</p>
<p>Higgins, thanks so much for the book. Will definitely check into it. Last weekend I finally got her to sit down and go through some brochures and websites and we really have pared it down to in-state schools (NJ) and one or too outside of NJ. There are a few colleges she could not only get into, but get merit money, but they would involve living at home, not what she wants. I think in the end it will all work out if she would spend just 15 minutes a day on college searching or 1/2 hour a day on SAT prepping. I don’t think it’s too much to ask with the SAT coming up in March but apparently I’m wrong. lol</p>
<p>Why would your daughter need to live at home to go to a state school, considering the cost would probably be cheaper than going away and still living at school, even with money? Many kids go to nearby schools and live on campus for the full college experience, and you should encourage that too, if that’s what she wants! </p>
<p>Your daughter’s score of 1590 is not bad at all. Actually, it’s just about average or slightly above. With her grades and scores, she could get I into a decent state school. In my state, one public university has automatic admission for students with a GPA of 3.3 or higher. I know SEVERAL kids with grades and scores worse than your daughter that get into public universities without much trouble. Stop pressuring her, encourage good essay writing, and start searching for schools in her league. She is not that bad of a student at all!!</p>
<p>I think the best thing to do is for mom to back off and let your DD do for herself. I get not wanting them to work in high school but that doesn’t mean they can’t help clean the house, cut the grass, etc. Give her a list of chores to do, make her responsible for getting herself up and out the door for school, etc. As much as people think they are helping their children by making their way easier, the opposite is true. </p>
<p>Also, it’s NOT uncommon for a junior to be where your DD is right now. To them they are thinking they have over a year to worry about this not realizing that the process starts now and is done in December really, not April.</p>
<p>I think you are right about having your DD schedule the visit and take the lead there. Ask her how much she wants you to do and do that part.</p>
<p>The in-state schools that she could get merit for are within 1/2-45 minutes of home. For $8-$10k a year, it’s not worth living at school that close to home, in my opinion.</p>
<p>I suspect that for a sophomore those are above average scores. She may do better just with the passing of time. If it were me, I’d take those college books and put them back on the coffee table, but I would say nothing about looking at them. I’d spend one day during February break and take her to look at two NJ colleges - maybe TCNJ and a smaller LAC. You might plan a second college trip for spring break if she’s amenable. I’d insist she take the SAT one more time - see if the scores remain the same or if she’s matured naturally into higher scores. Dont’ forget subject tests - she may need them. Then let her decide if she wants to study to improve her chances.</p>
<p>S2 was an uninterested junior. He had no clue what he wanted to do in life. Took the SAT spring of jr. year (because I made him). His score was lower than your D’s as was his gpa. He refused to retake SAT. That’s how uninterested he was. Said he would go wherever that score took him. I said “Fine,it’s your life”. I was tired of pushing.</p>
<p>Fall of senior yr. he got a little more interested when kids at school were talking about college. We told him we were fine with CC or any instate public (which was what we could afford) that he could get admitted to. Privates were out out the question. I encouraged him to apply to two state u’s with easy online apps. Then if admitted to either, he would have a choice in the spring between state u. or CC for a trade degree/transfer degree.</p>
<p>Working fulltime was a third choice but didn’t think that was his best option. We were afraid if he didn’t get some sort of schooling right out of high school that he would never go back to it. He was not a kid who loved school and were afraid he’d still be doing his grocery store cashier job forever because it was easy.</p>
<p>He ended up at one of the two directional state u’s he was admitted to. Had a bad first semester but got on track after that and graduated last spring. Turned out to be a better college student than he was in h.s. He loved his university, matured a lot,made great friends and had lots of good times. He has a job now that has absolutely nothing to do with his degree but it pays well,has benefits and he likes it well enough. It’s a good start. </p>
<p>S2 did take two classses at the CC during his senior year. That turned out to be a very good thing for him…gave him an inkling of being a CC student…and also earned credits that transferred to state u. S2 was a lazy student and took the CC classes so he could get out of h.s. early every day. He didn’t know the benefits of the CC classes were going to really help him down the road.</p>
<p>My advice is to not push too hard right now…don’t make it too big and scary…let her know that she will be expected to do “something” after h.s. but that choice is up to her.
She’ll prob. perk up a little more as senior year gets closer.<br>
BTW, S2 never visited the two universities until after he was accepted.</p>
<p>Unfortunately Mathmom, in NJ we don’t get a February break and spring break has been taken away due to Hurricane Sandy so they only time to go is weekends or taking her out of school/taking off from work for a day. She is scheduled for SAT in March. AP tests will be in May and her school made them sign an agreement that if they took an AP course they would promise to take the test and the school would pay for it, so she has no choice but to take the AP tests. She took the PSATs this year and while her CR and Writing have improved slightly (still under 600), her math has stayed the same. </p>
<p>ADad, I understand your point, truly. However, my daughter has always needed to be pushed. She’s a procrastinator and she settles. If she can get an 85 without trying, that’s good enough. 
When I have pushed her and stayed on her, she’s gotten far better grades and comes home surprised at how well she can do. She always talks about how well her BFF does, but she doesn’t realize the hours that girl puts in. I now realize that I won’t be there to push once she gets into college. I’ve spoiled her. I don’t give her many chores to do and she spends hours watching TV. That’s why I’ve felt that on this subject I need to crack the whip so to speak but I can see how that’s backfiring. I can’t make her want it for herself.</p>
<p>I’m a parent. I think that you need to back off with respect to colleges with HER. You do not need to back off figuring out what’s realistic. </p>
<p>My neighbor had a son like this and she took him on a beautiful day to visit a beautiful local college that he would have had no chance to get into. They did the tour, hung out. He started getting into it. Then she told him that as he currently stood that he had no chance, but that if he started taking school seriously, he would. She got him a tutor and stopped bugging him about it herself. It really lit a spark under him and he started caring. He ended up getting into an appropriate school, happy, productive, serious and mature. </p>
<p>It’s January in NJ. This isn’t going to happen before April. The most important thing is to not nag her. All of her friends will start looking and the school will be pushing college stuff on her. She’ll get interested when she gets interested. Or not. Pick out a beautiful college in NJ and plan for a tour on a nice sunny day in April. If she wants a different one, go to the one she wants. You can’t drive this process. You can only facilitate. You can lead a horse to water…</p>
<p>I think it’s a good idea to let her be responsible for registering to visit the one college she’s interested in. If she doesn’t, it’s telling you that she really isn’t ready to make this happen right now. And if you don’t, it’s telling her that she has to step up. Maybe she will.</p>
<p>If you’ve mentioned what she’s thinking about as an occupation, I’ve missed it. Even when my kids and I locked horns over college issues, they were willing to talk about their futures beyond college. What would happen if you took a break from all college discussions until the third marking period ends? And then maybe went out to lunch to talk about her future? If she’s enthusiastic about any career that requires college, that gives you a window to talk about specific paths into that career. And, if you hold off on all conversations until March, you still have time for her to register for the May and June SATs, if her March test doesn’t go well. I might even think about suggesting she not take the March test, if she’s at all reluctant?</p>
<p>Has she told the GC that she’s interested in TCNJ? Because her sophomore scores at 1590 are still under the 25th percentile there (and will probably go up on a re-take after 10th grade, even without significant prep). So the GC is doing her no favors by telling her the scores are “fine.”</p>
<p>And please don’t beat yourself up for “spoiling” her. 
High school juniors aren’t done yet.</p>
<p>Frazzled, she has no idea what she wants to do. She has fluctuated from marine biology (until she took Honors Bio freshman year), to culinary arts (because she likes to bake) to photography. She seems to be an artsy type of kid but again, she has a photo class and only goes out to take pics when she has an assignment, but not for the love it. Gets annoyed and doesn’t want to carry around a camera. I say she’s in love with the idea of certain things, just not the practicality of it. Basically she has no idea what she wants to do or what interests her. I’ve pushed her to join ECs so she can try new things and she doesn’t want to. She feels she won’t fit in or she’ll look stupid. She has some self esteem issues when it comes to her peers and would rather stay to herself. That’s another big problem – next to zero social life outside of color guard. College is going to be about so much more than an education for her. I’m trying to cut the apron strings and she’s hanging on for dear life. She talks a good game but I know she’d be happy to stay home forever. I cannot and will not let that happen. And I’m sure, at it’s core, this is why she’s not showing an active interest in college and exactly why I feel the need to push. And yet I know, in the end, it will all work out the way it’s intended. </p>
<p>Thank you so much everyone for your guidance. Sometimes it’s nice to get feedback from people outside my circle.</p>
<p>After reading your most recent post I am thinking that maybe she just needs a little more time. Children mature at very different rates and she might just not be quite ready for the independence of college life. Perhaps 1 or 2 years closer to home might be the best thing while she develops some confidence and a better idea of what she would like to study. College is huge change and even the most confident of young people struggle that first year with being away from home and adjusting socially. For someone who is not overly confident and is reticent about the whole process, that adjustment could just be overwhelming. Then you would be facing a bigger problem of deciding whether to bring her home. Plus her confidence would just take a dive.</p>
<p>Hope I am not being overly negative, but honestly if she were my daughter I would slow it all down and take my lead from her.</p>
<p>And P.S. I would take it as a supreme compliment that she likes being at home!</p>
<p>MomfullofQs, you mentioned your D’s (lack of) social life. Is she a true introvert? If so, or if you suspect this, or if you haven’t considered this before, I highly, highly recommend this book.
[Amazon.com:</a> Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking (9780307352156): Susan Cain: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0307352153/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358787872&sr=8-2&keywords=introvert+quiet]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0307352153/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358787872&sr=8-2&keywords=introvert+quiet)
My kid got much out of it also. It was such an encouragement and reinforcement for us both.</p>
<p>(You can find it at your library.)</p>
<p>Not negative at all HarvestMoon. Due to the birthday cutoffs when she started school, she is one of the oldest in her class. She will be 18 in the beginning of her senior year so it’s not that she’s young. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got and I had to learn the hard way with her was “you know the momma birds kick the baby birds out of the nest for their own good”. That’s what I’ve tried to keep in mind. If I honestly didn’t think she could handle it I wouldn’t push. Sometimes I have needed to be her confidence until she can figure out she’s capable. And I’d honestly rather have her leave and go to college and go bring her home, then let her think she’s not capable of handling it. The biggest regrets come from not trying, not from trying and failing.</p>
<p>Teens (aside from the CC’s over-achievers found here) are often immature, uninformed, and surly. It’s part of “being a teenager”, or so it seems, for many, if not most teenagers. It can be discouraging to read all the “OMG will I get into Harvard” threads here. Multiple and/or vague interests are common too, along with the teen malaise. They need our parenting and guidance, and sometimes it requires a prod and a push too. Don’t back-off but don’t argue about it. Provide some considered guidance to her. If DD’s HS counselor’s advice is inadequate or inaccurate - do more digging yourself again. It’s too important of a decision-making process to “let it go”.</p>
<p>Your DD’s scores are good for a sophomore, and could improve significantly simply by repeating test and/or prepping via book or special class. (Our DS didn’t prep w/book, but did take a test-prep class, and scores improved hugely between Soph Fall and Jr Summer.) Her GPA can improve too, but she’s a viable college candidate. Issue is not to be caught short Fall of Sr Yr, when application deadlines loom at same time that decisions and priorities aren’t yet formulated. Best wishes.</p>
<p>Thanks Higgins. I guess I’m finding myself getting caught up in the overachievers I read about here and elsewhere. It’s probably more about me than my daughter. Sometimes I feel like I’m failing her if she’s not right up there with all of them. She’ll find her way in her own time; it’s just not my time. LOL</p>
<p>My older daughter came very reluctantly to the college search process. She was terrified by the SAT scores which she thought were unattainable. What really helped was 1:1 tutoring at home before taking the tests. Her tutor was able to pretest her to help her identify her personal areas of weakness. They zeroed in on those areas and through the process of practice retesting she became more confident. No one enjoys the prep or the testing, but a good tutor could make her feel she has an ally, help take some of the fear away. She did raise her scores and then she was done with it. I feel she may be really scared.</p>