<p>That sounds like good news - whew! I hope she is just feeling overwhelmed and after some time at home over break she is able to realize that she CAN do this. I think we may sometimes underestimate how difficult the transition may be. And honestly, I can understand her attraction to her brothers seemingly care-free life. Keep us posted…I am rooting for her…and YOU!</p>
<p>My son’s taking 13 credits this semester and works 7.5 hours a week tutoring. It’s a great job because: 1) he can study when there are no students needing help, 2) he can chat with the other tutors who are generally pretty bright people.</p>
<p>He’s taking four hard sciences courses and they all have a lot of lab work.</p>
<p>Your daughter went in with 60 credits - I would think that she could handle a college load with two hard sciences (my son has generally always taken three hard math/science/computer science courses per semester) fairly easily. It sounds like she has other distractions.</p>
<p>Some of it could be the different expectations & pacing in HS vs college. If the HS was more nurturing & gave lots of opps for kids to do well instead of one, two or three major tests/projects that nearly everything hinges on, this can be a tough adjustment for students. As you say, if she is used to being at the top of her school & she’s not at the top in her U, that’s also a big shock. Some kids weather the bumps better & more quickly than others. Time can be very helpful.</p>
<p>It’s good that you did get clarity from the scholarship office. It might also be good to clarify about a possible leave of absence, in case that is something you and she decide might be appropriate (perhaps where she could shadow a doc or do research, perhaps while taking a few courses at a local U)? Time really helps a lot of things work out and is one of the best gifts we can give or receive.</p>
<p>She also had dual-enrollment credits. If you come in with 60 credits, I’d guess that a fair number must come from taking college courses - so she should have been familiar with the higher pace at college.</p>
<p>I can only speak to our own experience (and the experiences relayed to me).</p>
<p>It seems to me that a lot of “smart” people have the hardest time asking for help. This is a big mistake. Fortunately, my son didn’t have trouble going to his professors, but he did have hesitation in going to his professors after the fact when he hadn’t gotten a good grade or done as well as he had thought. So… he bombs this lab early in the semester and like your D thinks no med school is going to want him in three years, what’s the point, this is so hard, I don’t know what happened, etc etc… </p>
<p>A recent grad of son’s college was on CC and so I PM’d her asking if he was way off the mark in his response and if, as S had said, he was barking up the wrong tree. She suggested a number of things but one was, he needed to get a little perspective. In order to do that, she suggested he go to the professor where one of two things would happen: He would either better understand where he went wrong and be able to improve going forward or he’d get some points back by having the professor see his point of view. When I copied him HER note and he followed thru - BOTH those things happened. </p>
<p>The 09 grad also said that people THINK their grades are so much worse than anyone else’s grades, which is absolutely not true. But everyone is stressed about their grades and so they may not be completely forth coming in relaying grades, even at a relatively cooperative school like S’s. Most important, she did not have any where near a perfect GPA and still managed to get into an Ivy League grad program. </p>
<p>She said he needed to understand that no one at the school makes straight A’s. And there is more to being supported as a candidate for med or grad school than grades and encouraged him to not be so hard on himself. Again, the advice was to go and talk to the professors.</p>
<p>THEN! Over TG, my niece was there who graduated from Reed. During her four years there she said her ego was beaten up pretty badly and the work load left her feeling that she just wasn’t as smart as she always thought she was. There were several times over the years where she thought she might be better off if she transferred or changed her major, etc. However, she persevered. And now that she has been out of a couple of years (and recently completed her graduate degree), she says that what Reed taught her was work ethic. She worked her butt off for four years. And now that she is back among the not-so-smart people, she again realizes just how smart she is! And far smarter than she ever thought she was! She said that she has friends who were smart in HS and yet have never had to really test their brain or their tenacity and therefore, don’t know how to work hard or problem solve on the fly because it all was just so easy for them. WITH HINDSIGHT, (key phrase) she is beyond grateful for her education even though it was really really tough going through it. </p>
<p>I am so grateful for her words of wisdom because I could have said all those same things, but nothing would have resonated with my kid like someone else just recently having gone thru it. School for my kid was always what came easily, but at the caliber of school he attends now, EVERYONE is that smart and more so! He is working harder than he ever has before and he will be better off for it. Between the advice of a recent grad of his school and my niece, I feel he really got ahold of some metal to muddle through especially on those really tough days.</p>
<p>Yes… a bit of a ramble, but what you want your kid to really learn is that life isn’t going to be handed to her. Sometimes you need to ASK for what you need and there is absolutely no shame in seeking help, regardless of how smart you think you are. Every single bit of advice handed to my son so far has been to talk to his professors and talk to them often. At his school, a top CLA, that’s what we are paying for. But even when I was in grad school at one of the largest Universities out there, professors had office hours and were absolutely accessible.</p>
<p>Having been through something similar with my son, I have to caution that the real problem might be social/behavioral issues that aren’t going to get better – so you need to realize that **you<a href=“the%20parent”>/b</a> may be the one in denial. The drinking & lifestyles changes with the half-brother might be a far bigger part of the problem than you realize.</p>
<p>In other words … if your d. has a drinking problem, then making it through this semester and resolving to try harder the next semester isn’t going to fix the problem. I’d find the fact that your d. has called you while clearly drunk to be somewhat alarming … at least my son had the good sense to try to conceal whatever substance abuse issues were playing into his academic problems. </p>
<p>I do think you should encourage your d. to try to stick out this semester, as well as to seek whatever academic help her college offers, including being proactive and discussing her concerns about her scholarship with her advisor. Tell her you love her and will help her “work things out” no matter what happens, but that you think its best to wait until grades are in before making any decisions. As you noted, she might be saved by the curve in the class she is failing.</p>
<p>However, if the grades come in as bad or worse as anticipated … think hard before making the mistake of sending your d. back to a situation where she has not been coping well thus far. Maybe heavy drinking is part of the campus culture – if so, its not going to change in the spring. </p>
<p>Long term, it may be easier for her to recover from one bad semester at a top 40 school than from 2 bad semesters. If she transfers, the courses with the good grades will be transferable; D’s and F’s generally won’t transfer and will end up dropping from the calculation. So she would be transferring into school #2 with a 3.0, which certainly is not disastrous.</p>
<p>She doesn’t have to rush to transfer. My son took 3 years off, and transferred from a top-tier LAC into a lower-ranked public state university – the CSU was very affordable (he paid his own way) – and he ended up with some incredible achievements and opportunities via the CSU, where he was a more mature student and also easily able to earn top grades. For some students, it really does help to be in a less competitive environment. </p>
<p>The point is – whatever happens, your d. can recover from this. She can still go to med school – but it may turn out that she will need some time away from school to mature, and that she will be attending a less prestigious undergrad school. </p>
<p>So I’m saying – be reassuring and supportive, but don’t be blind to reality. Denial or minimizing a problem doesn’t help because it sends the message: “things will be ok because the problem doesn’t exist” – which the person with the problem knows is untrue – rather than the message, “no matter how bad things are, there will be a way to work past this and overcome this setback, and I will love and support you no matter how long that takes”.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone. I’ve tried telling her that she can major in anything and still apply to med school, but she has her heart set on this one particular program, and the sciences have always been challenging for her. </p>
<p>Over break, I’ll talk to her about a leave of absence. If she shadowed a doctor and did some volunteer work while taking classes at a local college, that would give her time to mature. Drinking is very much a part of the campus culture… she has called me saying she can’t tolerate the dorms because kids come in at 3am, drunk, in the middle of the week. Plus they play drinking games. I’m surprised there hasn’t been a case of alcohol poisoning yet. The only drawback to a leave of absence is that she has already said she won’t spend the summer at home (while having no plan on how to support herself), so my feeling is that she would be with the half brother, which could be a disaster.</p>
<p>Modadunn, thanks… that is great advice, and I’m going to pass it along to her. I wish she had someone else to tell her to talk to her professors… she does not seem to want to listen to me.</p>
<p>Calmom, you’re right about the social issues. I wish I could get her to go to counseling, but even when she was under 18 and I had more control, she would flatly refuse to go. I’ll keep trying though, and I will borrow your words about supporting her no matter what.</p>
<p>The college classes she took were at the local CC and were in subjects she was good at, so she hasn’t experienced the faster pace in sciences yet. It’s also different to have only a few grades, rather than many opportunities as in high school.</p>
<p>Just hope she stays home long enough over break so we can talk about these things… I’m afraid that she’ll decide to just drop out and go to her half brother.</p>
<p>I just wanted to add that there seems to be a lot of talk that “my kid takes a, b and C” and is doing just fine, etc. Well, not all schools are the same and not all 3.8 GPA’s are equal either. Four classes is a full load for my son and each class (whether or not they have labs - which three of his do) is only one credit. He knows from talking to friends at other schools that some of their classes with the exact same name don’t have nearly the work load his have. And it’s taking awhile for him to get that this is OK and he is doing very well for the school he attends. It’s all relative.</p>
<p>Lastly – “easy” classes don’t always prove to be so easy, especially if you think they’re easy and therefore don’t feel you have to work as hard as you would otherwise in a “hard” class. I was a humanities major… I could write a 15 page paper with my eyes partially closed but I couldn’t get through basic statistics. Some kids would be bored silly in a basic math class and be completely swamped by the thought of writing three and four papers a week. Just pointing out what should be obvious when talking about class loads, various GPA’s and labeling a class as easy or hard. It’s not just apples to oranges, there’s a whole fruit basket involved.</p>
<p>Have tried but agree that no one can MAKE anyone go to counseling and get anywhere. We can only change ourselves. That is why I suggest you consider counseling for yourself, preferably with someone who has experience in working with parents of young adults like yours to help guide you in how to be effective at dealing with these challenging issues. Why NOT get the advice of an expert? It would be good role modeling for your D as well.</p>
<p>Himom, if I had health insurance, I would have gone for counseling long ago! Unfortunately I make too much to benefit from sliding scale community based programs, and not enough to buy private health insurance… and could only afford a few sessions. Maybe that would be better than nothing, but right now finances are tight.</p>
<p>Modadunn, she’s one of those kids who can crank out a ten page paper in one night, but struggles with math and science (she knows got all those 4’s and 5’s on her AP exams because she can write a good essay). So 13 credits with two hard sciences is, for her, about what 17 hours of humanities courses would be. </p>
<p>But she’s determined to stay in this major… at least she says that next semester she’ll talk to her professors early on.</p>
<p>I’m trying to understand why a students who struggles with science is a Bio major!<br>
She could major is something that she loves, and can be successful in.<br>
Many med schools require 8 science classes, so she could take just one each semester. </p>
<p>My daughter is at a school where lower-level science classes are brutal. She keeps meeting people who tell her that that are going to graduate from that school, but do their pre-med science classes elsewhere, during summers or the year after they graduate from college.</p>
<p>Many “pre-meds” don’t realize that many medical schools love students who have a humanities background. They also are very open to more mature students who took a year or two off after college. I personally know physicians who majored in Music, in English, Psychology, and Spanish. I know a physician who worked for 10 years as a flight attendant before she entered med school.</p>
<p>She should study what she loves, and use these college years to develop her study habits. I hate to say it, but she doesn’t want to get into med school if she hates science and doesn’t have excellent time management skills.</p>
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<p>Me too! I agree that you don’t have to be a science major to get into Medical School, but you do need some basics which include Organic Chemistry and Biochemistry. And while I don’t have a clue what goes into that, my understanding is you better also be pretty adept at math to get through (beyond the calc requirement). </p>
<p>I did, however, come across this article in the Smithsonian Magazine, which might prove interesting (even if there are very big caveats involved):</p>
<p>[Three</a> Classes Wannabe Doctors Should Take Before Med School | Surprising Science](<a href=“Three Classes Wannabe Doctors Should Take Before Med School | Science| Smithsonian Magazine”>Three Classes Wannabe Doctors Should Take Before Med School | Science| Smithsonian Magazine)</p>
<p>Also, taking required science classes to get into med school at an alternative school might be OK for non-science majors but beyond Chem I, I don’t think son’s school accepts outside credits within your major unless it’s at an approved study abroad program (and even that doesn’t really work for the sciences).</p>
<p>Still… I am very much in agreement with the thinking that you major in what you absolutely love. Life is hard enough without constantly swimming against your own inner-current.</p>
<p>There are some things you can take off the table:</p>
<p>1) Say “I love you throughly and support you exploring other options to find a great path forward” (this takes off the table the notion any “I’m an unloved teen” thinking)
2) Say “I can understand that you want to know your brother.” (So brother no longer has the “forbidden fruit” allure). </p>
<p>It’s also ok to let her know that you are terrified. In fact, you can ham it up and put a Mom’s Biggest Terrors list on the fridge. You are terrified she will be a raging drunk. You are terrified that she will leave college and live under a bridge. You are terrified that she will be unhappy. It helps a lot if a student knows that a parent is terrified – because usually the student feels the parent is demanding or disappointed. Consider giving her the “Amy’s Answering Machine” CD from Amazon. Hilarious messages from a mother to her daughter, full of well meaning advice. Laugh together. </p>
<p>You may not be able to get to counseling but you can tell D that you would love to build your negotiating skills – and it would be terrific to do it with her over the holidays. Get one of those books on Negotiating Skills and say “OK, let’s do this. You are my prisoner on the sofa until we page thorough this book and negotiate who is cooking this week.” – sounds silly and it might get you the teen eye roll – but the point here is that you want her to know that you are not going to be an “all or none” person. That you are open to half measures and different paths.</p>
<p>I have to say that I Never, ever, want to be treated by a doctor who is poor in math and science. No thank you.</p>
<p>Lots of great advice and, frankly, if she wasn’t so set on med school, the grades really aren’t that bad since she has a semester to recover and even the fall term gives her one last shot to bring up the GPA. Meanwhile, she is getting decent grades in the other courses and accumulating credits toward graduation. Even if she loses the scholarship and has to leave…with all her AP credits–she will be half way to a degree! Something to celebrate and you should remind her of her tremendous efforts in HS are not lost.</p>
<p>I interpret her talk of the starving artist and moving in with brother as threats to you. I disagree about telling her how she scares you with her talk. She knows perfectly well that she scares the bejeebers out of you everytime she says she is going to spend time with drunk/druggie half brother. She knows that talk scares you and since she is scared and hurting she lashes out at the only person who loves her unconditionally, you…she gets to hear you feel stressed and hurt and angrye so then she can focus on you being “mean” and “unfair” instead of facing her fears about failing out at school. Recognize her attitude as an inappropriate way to deal with the stress and don’t rise to the bait – my 15 year old often does this type of diversionary tactic when she is super stressed or unhappy with something at school. Its immature and cruel but not unusual.</p>
<p>I really like the idea of giving her some ideas of how to deal with the problem (talk to professors, consider other majors etc) but also reassure her that things are not that dire and she should do the best she can for finals. Try not to fight with her…always, always start with a positive comment about what is good and talk to her about things to look forward too during the break…don’t say anything negative about her brother. You could ask her talk to her Dad about his situation or even the mom ? Perhaps hearing advice from someone who loves her brother will be more palatable from you who can’t be expected to be knowledgeable or fair judge of his lifestyle. </p>
<p>Last…this is a little personal…why o why are you giving her spending money? We pay full freight at a top 20 private (ka-ching!) with no financial aid (only some scholarship) but my S knew in HS that allowance/spending money would end at age 18 no matter where he went to school or what kind of scholarship he won. His roomate is on almost a full financial aid and the parent complains that the money they put into his account is used for partying. Kid is too busy to get a work study job…Duh? My son is not about to waste his hard earned money in a crappy job on liquor although I am sure he doesn’t say no to a free beer at a frat party. Your D only needs a job if she needs spending money. If you provide the spending money…no need to get a job. My S also says he is too busy to work this semester and I don’t know or care if that is true…his problem. He needs to figure out how to balance work, school and spending habits for himself. It is going to be hard to stop providing her with spending money now without it seeming like punishment, so you may want to give her a small, reasonable allowance at the beginning of each month to cover minimal entertainment ($60?) and tell her that when it is gone, it is gone. No advances, no emergency loans, she must budget or work to meet her expenses. I would give her that same amount w hen she goes to visit brother as well as the ticket home (you may want to send a holiday food basket with her to provide sustenance to them both under the guise of holiday gift–just leave out the bottle of wine). </p>
<p>You sound like a wonderful mom who is doing the very best with a difficult situation. You love and care for her and all you can do now is provide steady, non-dramatic, support and calm advice because for her the world is out of control and you are the only anchor. She knows you are there for her…all you can improve on is ratcheting down the drama, emphasize the positive, suggest but don’t impose fixes and alternatives, tell her you love her every time she calls, end the conversations when they begin to turn into fights. I hope it gets better and the holidays bring you some happier moments.</p>
<p>Ask her to imagine her life four or so years from this current fork in the road. Would she rather say “Whew! That was really hard, but I did it, and am better for this accomplishment” or “I sure have had a lot of fun since I dropped out, and a limited future is okay with me” or something similar. Have her read post #25.</p>
<p>Perhaps the school is not a good fit for your daughter. She might have wanted to be there in theory but in practice it might not be what she had hoped or wanted. If so, then stress to her that she is not failing or will not achieve her goals. They might need to manifest in another location and/or a different path. </p>
<p>All or nothing catastrophic thinking people need to be shown the gray area which exists. Do not allow her to suck you into her drama rather stay pragmatic and realistic about what this MINOR setback could mean long term…</p>
<p>a minor setback or a major game changer.</p>
<p>I really like FineArtMajorsmom take on the subject, especially the half-brother diversion. However, I too understand the financial pressures of paying full boat at a top private school (with NO scholarship as it’s a need-blind and need-only school) and we too said that we’d pay for school and books and he pays for anything else - laundry, going out, etc. He has to earn his money during the summer and maybe over break if he can get a couple shifts over such a short time frame. Work Study is not really an option for a kid not on financial aid and most of the “good” jobs are taken by work study students. So… given the good advice, I might make a new deal going forward. Give her a small stipend and then make the deal that she needs to work over breaks to cover her future expenses.</p>
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<p>Maybe she really needs to reevaluate her plans toward med school. Why does she want to be a doctor? What other career choices might there be in related fields or capacities? </p>
<p>If a class like chemistry is doing her in… I sympathize. I started out as a very young pre-vet major, and I stressed all quarter about my chemistry class. I didn’t have a clue what was going on, and somehow by a miracle I managed to pull a B. I signed up for Chem 1B, but 1 week into the next quarter decided I just didn’t want that level of stress, so I dropped the chem & signed up for an English class instead. I eventually majored in something else and went to law school. </p>
<p>One more piece of advice: don’t fight with your daughter over the half brother! I think she knows it irks you. Just don’t get stuck in the position of giving her financial support over the summer to live outside the home. Tell her that your home is always open to her, but that if she wants to live on her own she also needs to pay her own way.</p>
<p>*I agree that it’s nonsense about her not getting a job. Hmm, maybe if I don’t let her have any spending money she would get one. *</p>
<p>Bingo! (Would you go to YOUR job everyday if you had the option of someone else just handing you the money? Put her on notice. The spending money is stopping in XX days…get a job)</p>
<p>My son is pre-med (chem engineering major and math major). He works part-time as a university tutor. Great job…he can study when no one shows up for an appt. </p>
<p>*I’ve tried telling her that she can major in anything and still apply to med school, but she has her heart set on this one particular program, and the sciences have always been challenging for her. *</p>
<p>hmmmmm…Maybe others can chime in here, but in my humble opinion, if science classes are a struggle for her, then being a doctor probably isn’t right for her anyway. </p>
<p>JMO…but I think science classes should require studying and such, but if she can’t get good grades after putting in such effort, then she’s not really right for pre-med.</p>
<p>You mention that she is good at the classes she took at a CC. What kind of classes were they? Perhaps others here can think of possible careers that are geared towards her strengths. :)</p>