Daughter talking about dropping out

Parents Forum
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<p>I could really use some advice about this. Got an email from my daughter that she is considering dropping out of college. She's in a Top 40 private college on a 3/4 scholarship. This was her first choice and would be unaffordable without the scholarship. If gets below a 3.0, she has next semester to pull it back up.</p>

<p>So far, she has one A, one B, one C, and is failing one course. She's pre-med and now thinks that after this semester, no medical school would want her. I told her after midterms to talk to her professors, but she hasn't done that, and also told her that she could change her major from Biology to something that is easier for her, take the minimum of hard science courses, and still appy to med school, but she's not ready to do that.</p>

<p>An issue for me is that if she loses her scholarship, I cannot afford for her to stay at this college. I don't know if I should even mention the possibility of putting in transfer applications... will wait until she gets her semester grades. I've been encouraging her to study and do the best she can... the closer she is to a 3.0, the less ground she will have to make up next semester. </p>

<p>Her adjustment to college has not been very good. It's been difficult for her to accept that she's not the smartest kid in the class any more, and that now she really has to work. She admitted that she has been partying earlier in the semester. More than once she's texted me, drunk. </p>

<p>She tends to be an all or nothing personality. There are also some family issues. Her college friends are very well to do, and we are not, and she resents me for not being able to provide her with what they have. Worse than that, just last spring she met her half brothers for the first time (her father and I divorced when she was a baby, and we didn't have contact with his first ex-wife). She went off with one of them last summer, and she was very infatuated with his street punk lifestyle. Now she says she will come home for part of break, but wants to spend most of it there with her half brother (I can't stop her, but have told her that I will not give her anything more than a bus ticket home, and that has increased tensions between us).</p>

<p>If she drops out, it wouldn't be a matter of coming home, going to a community college for a while, getting a part time job, and trying again. She would go to her half brother, who is homeless most of the time... she has no concept of the dangers.</p>

<p>I don't know what to do. Thank you for reading this... would appreciate any advice.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry to hear that you’re all going thru this.</p>

<p>I would hope that you could talk her out of dropping out. The fact that she told you by email suggests to me that she knows this isn’t a good idea.</p>

<p>She is throwing away a once in a lifetime opportunity (which you already know) if she leaves this school. She’ll never get that kind of scholarship again - especially from any top school (does she realize that)?</p>

<p>There are many other professions besides being a doctor. What about becoming a Physician’s Assistant or Nurse Practitioner? both are highly paid and well-respected professions.</p>

<p>She’s confused and she needs someone to brainstorm some alternatives for her.</p>

<p>BTW…does she have a job? If not, she needs to get one. Then she’d have more pocket money (and less time to hang out with affluent friends). Working a few hours a week doesn’t hurt one academically…in fact, studies show that kids who work have better GPAs.</p>

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<p>You(she) might talk to the head of her dept to determine if she can take a break and get her act together and perhaps there is a way she could later return and still have the scholarship.</p>

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<p>Thanks. I’ve told her that she will never get a scholarship like this again but I think she’s in denial. Also mentioned going the nurse practitoner or PA route… she could apply to all three… but she doesn’t seem to be thinking very rationally.</p>

<p>No, she doesn’t have a job. I tried to encourage her to work a few hours a week, and she said she “didn’t have time” with her demanding classes. Of course, from my perspective if she can drink on weekends she can get a job… and if she had one, she might be less likely to party. </p>

<p>I also suggested she talk to someone in the counseling center, and to her academic advisor, but AFAIK she hasn’t done either. She doesn’t realize she would be throwing away an opportunity that will never come again.</p>

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<p>I feel your pain! I don’t know if chemistry is her problem class, but the pre-med chem curriculum is a killer of many a pre-med dream. </p>

<p>I would definitely talk to the professor right away! Her grade may not be a failing grade, like she thinks it is. That would probably help her confidence. </p>

<p>Is it too late to drop this class?</p>

<p>Going from not doing well in one class to dropping out seems to be a big jump…</p>

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<p>I’m sorry that you and your daughter are going through this. It sounds like she’s upset about her grades and is threatening to drop out because she doesn’t know what else to do. The transition to college can be very difficult, especially for kids who didn’t have to work very hard for good grades in HS. </p>

<p>I think that you need to help her focus on salvaging this semester’s grades. She may be able to bring up the C and F by doing well on her finals. You made a good suggestion about meeting with professors, but she is probably intimidated. Do the courses have TA’s that she could go to for help? Her RA might also be able to make suggestions of resources like tutoring that might be available. </p>

<p>It would be a shame if she gave up this opportunity. Good luck helping her through this.</p>

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<p>It might be time to be a bit pragmatic. If she finishes with an A, B, C and F, her GPA will be 2.2. Lower if she throws in the towel now. To keep her Scholarship she would need a 3.8 (if she only takes 4 classes, then she would really need all A’s.). It may in fact be too late to salvage the scholarship beyond freshman year. Or at least she feels that way. I know I would. And in the same situation, I too would want to quit. Why continue to invest yourself in an institution that will be unaffordable in 8 months? Why invest yourself in making friends that you will leave in a few months?</p>

<p>A lot of kids drink and party on weekends at every school. No sense judging. It wont help. Thank god she doesnt have a problem, and pray she doesnt develop one.</p>

<p>Consider making a plan for failure. “OK…You bombed this semester, and you are going to not go to med school. What now?” Have her figure out her plan of action to include the 2nd semester of school where she is, and how you can help her transfer to a school she can afford for Sophmore year. Lower the bar, 4 years on that scholarship is out. m Enjoy the one year you got, ask her to try her hardest so as many credits as possible can transfer.</p>

<p>Leave out the fact that if she can change the F to a D or C then the 3.0 might not be out of reach. Leave out the fact that if she does well in the 2nd semester she might be able to keep the scholarship. Resist the urge to plan for a possible win, and plan instead for what the fail could look like. Believe me, if she feels like you are in her corner even if she is no longer the smartest kid on the block, you could end up with a much happier kid.</p>

<p>Stop saying she is giving up an opportunity, missing the boat, screwing up her life. She knows all that, but the quicksand has got her, and you are the only one with a life raft. Her loser step brother has it made in her eyes, no expectations, no way to fail, and he is what is at the bottom of that quicksand.</p>

<p>So plan for the failure and see if you cant get a commitment to finish the semester, re-direct her efforts towards a new major for one more sememster till she loses the scholarship, and a plan towards transferring.</p>

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<p>I think you’ve already gotten some really good advice, but as a student reading this I just want to throw out one thought. You said she’s not thinking rationally and seems to be in denial about the realities of the scholarship situation. Does she have a tendency to be this irrational in general, like if this were a maturity issue, or is this more stress? I know for me this is an EXTREMELY stressful time of year and I have to resist the urge to call my mom fairly regularly to inform her that I am going to declare bankruptcy the moment I graduate and move in at the homeless shelter. I would wonder if she would be able to have a less irrational conversation about the ramifications of this decision, and therefore perhaps make a wiser choice, over Christmas break when all her exams are behind her and she isn’t running in high-stress finals mode anymore. Unless she is planning to drop out immediately, I wonder about how much progress you can really make trying to hash it out right this moment with everything students have going on in the next couple of weeks.</p>

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<p>What if she takes rather easy courses next semester to ensure all A’s? She would have to take at least as many credits as she did this semester.</p>

<p>Then she could take some summer school classes at a CC to make up a few classes that she should have taken spring semester.</p>

<p>she could take all general ed courses (no pre-med courses) that just fulfill Core/General Ed req’ts.</p>

<p>She could salvage her scholarship.</p>

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<p>I am sorry to hear about your daughter. I would suggest three things: 1) Suggest to your daughter that she talk to her professors and see what she can do to improve her grades. The professors may give some direction on what to expect on the upcoming finals, offer extra credit (it does happen), etc. 2) Ask your daughter to seek tutoring help. Tutoring help should be available at a small LAC. Even if you need to pay for it, the $ would be worth it if it helps pull up your daughter’s gpa. 3) Suggest your daughter apply for a leave of absence. This will give your daughter 1-2 semesters to figure out what she wants to do while leaving the door open for a return. This should not affect the scholarship standing. Working or volunteering for a semester or two will give your daughter the opportunity to see what life is like without a degree and can give her time to gain some new perspective.
I went through a somewhat similar situation many moons ago at an Ivy League school and the leave of absence worked out well. I believe your daughter will learn quickly that living with her street punk brother, working, etc. is not all its cracked up to be without a good education.
I feel for your situation and hope all works out well.</p>

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<p>Sorry for the worry this is causing you, califa. You might have to separate the school issues and the other (sibling) issue and there may be nothing you can really do about the sibling thing. Lots of kids vent to their parents, inducing minor heart palpitations, and then promptly forget about it…little buggers, they’re completely unaware of how deeply mom and dad care and want to see them happy. If it becomes a recurrent theme, the school definitely has resources she should be taking advantage of. My advice to my D last year when she realized she detested her pre-pharm chem classes (after loving high school chem, working in a pharmacy, and refusing to consider any school that did not have a PharmD program) was “Get your behind to a tutor and an advisor IMMEDIATELY”. She did, dropped one bio class that she didn’t need anyway, and finished up just fine, just under a 3.5 with 17 credits/semester. The advisor had her do a lot of career testing/research and found her true calling in the OT program. She formally changed majors during second semester, did a summer OT internship, and is very happy now. If I had suggested a major, I’m sure it would have been shot down immediately…nature of the beast, I guess. Sometimes it’s just easier to issue (or bark, if necessary) a few simple instructions and have a professional make them sort through their options!</p>

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<p>Also, can your DD salvage her GPA by dropping a class or even two? The F & D? There may be a minimum number of units, but without that F dragging her down, she might have a more salvageable situation</p>

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<p>OP, I’m so sorry to hear about this; it brings back painful memories from last year, and it is really really tough. I wanted to share how our situation resolved, in the hope that there may be something you can use.</p>

<p>I agree with funfatdaddy; I think your D should take a serious look at a leave of absence. My D had a horrible adjustment to college as a freshman last year. Different problems than your D’s, but she was depressed, desperate to get out, wanted to chuck her entire education, it was a nightmare all the way around. </p>

<p>She decided, rather than unenroll, to take a leave of absence this year. Her college’s policy is to hold enrollment and all financial aid, including scholarships, for one year. It was a godsend, and the transformation has been amazing. She’s taking a few classes at the community college this semester. She belatedly got her drivers license and a car, and a job. She shed a boyfriend who was keeping her tied to the past. Most important, the leave has given her the time and space to sort things out in her own head. She’s clarified what she wants to major in, what she wants as a career, and how she can get there. She’s become an adult in the last 8 months. She’s making really good decisions now, figuring out her own problems, with minimal input from me. She decided to cut short her leave, and is excited to be heading back to school in January. </p>

<p>Every case is different, of course. But it may be that your D needs some time to catch her breath and do some thinking. A leave would give her that opportunity without closing any doors. It buys some time, freezes everything in place, relieves the I-gotta-decide-my-whole-future-right-now pressure that they seem to feel. They can get away from the immediate stress without making an irrevocable decision. </p>

<p>Hang in there.</p>

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<p>Wow, there have been a LOT of great ideas here. My D had some rocky times when she was pitchforked into CC. She did great her 1st semester but had a VERY bad 2nd semester–she talked with the teachers & was able to get a W (withdrawal) or two and also one or two I (incompletes). She was really afraid that these would seriously jeopardize her options, but it worked out for her.</p>

<p>These are options that your D could also discuss with her TA/profs and FAid (figure out the minimum # of credits & courses she HAS to have to keep her $$$). She also needs a more accurate idea of how well/poorly she’s doing in all her courses and this can only come by speaking with TA/profs.</p>

<p>Good luck. Keep in mind your kiddo’s personality to have a better idea of whether her current behavior is normal for her (over-dramatizing) or there is a serious problem. A leave of absence can be a Godsend and many schools are very understanding about it, but you have to work with them & get it resolved ASAP.</p>

<p>Our D also has spent a lot of soul-searching to figure out what she wants to study & what job she might like. She’s even done a bit of shadowing–tho I wish she would do more. I highly recommend it–paid or volunteer if she does take a leave of absence so she has a better idea of what she does and doesn’t like in future career options.</p>

<p>The healthcare profession is loaded with opportunities; many work better for folks than the traditional MD anyway.</p>

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<p>I agree with advice to switch to an academic emphasis in which she could succeed. Why is a career in the medical field so important, especially at her age? Studies show more than half of all college students switch majors more than once, so why is she feeling pressure to stick with medical science? </p>

<p>No one. Absolutely no one is great at everything, but anyone smart enough to get into a respectable college is good at something. It’s a matter of figuring out that something. That takes time, patience, and maybe even a little experimentation through a diverse selection of courses for the first couple of years. </p>

<p>It’s too bad about the 3.0. My D attends a Top 25 Private and has a partial merit scholarship. Without it (I have a high EFC but have two kids in college at the same time) she would’ve had to go to a public U. But her college (admittedly to our surprise) does not require a minimum GPA to keep it, other than the 2.0 required to graduate. Their philosophy is if a student is accomplished enough to be awarded one of their merit scholarships they shouldn’t have to be pressured into achieving and maintaining a GPA at some arbitrary level (like 3.0). She has exceeded that level anyway, but it was nice to discover that she doesn’t have to. Now she can try a couple of courses in areas that are not her strength, and do so without fear that a stumble (a dreaded F or D) that could temporarily drop her GPA to 2.99 or lower won’t cost us a dime. More colleges should have that policy.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the good advice! You guys are the best… you’re helping me get some much needed perspective.</p>

<p>Over break, depending on how close to a 3.0 she can get (if she’s very lucky, the class curve could help) I’m going to talk to her about what to do. If she totally bombs first semester, she can still enjoy her second semester at her dream school, take classes that she can do well in, and then take a year off or work on transferring to an affordable school. I know she will feel bad about wrecking her chances here, but she’ll have to learn to do the best with what she has. </p>

<p>Emahaheeval, thanks for giving a student’s perspective. Right now I’m only going to focus on encouraging her to do as well as she can, and study. I think you’re right about talking about this over semester break, after the pressure for finals is over. If I mentioned to her that it’s unlikely she can salvage the scholarship (which she knows already), she would probably just get drunk and give up on finals. </p>

<p>Getting a professional to help her find out what she is good at is a great idea… if I can get her to go. When she has been very depressed in the past, I could only get her to go to counseling by threatening to take away her driving privileges. This is a kid who does not want to get any help. I tried to get her to get a tutor after midterms, but she would not do that.</p>

<p>funfatdaddy, those are great suggestions. LasMa, I’m glad the leave of absence worked well for your D, and it could be a good idea, especially if it would help salvage her scholarship. </p>

<p>But if she did take time off from college, she would be off with the half brother.
sk8rmom, you’re right about separating the college and sibling issues. </p>

<p>DD has an all or nothing, very dramatizing personality. She told me that if she cannot get in medical school, then she will go to the “starving artist” plan. I’m going to try to encourage her to major in something she enjoys and can succeed in. </p>

<p>Himom, you’re right about other opportunities in the medical field, but right now she’s thinking MD or nothing. But 18 is too early to decide, and those opportunities will be there later. One of my friends is taking classes to get into the PA program, and she’s in her 40’s. </p>

<p>This kid really needs to get some counseling too, but so far, she refuses. She’s extremely stubborn and if she loses her scholarship I don’t know if I can get her to think about tranferring in-state (she did not apply to any in-state schools because she did not like any of them). I dread the thought of her on the streets of NY with a half brother who has been on hard drugs and in and out of jail.</p>

<p>It would be good if she could drop the course she is failing, but she is only taking 13 credits. But I’m going to look into if the minimum is 24 credits per academic year, rather than 12 a semester. In that case, she could possibly drop the course she is failing, focus on the others, and take five easy classes next semester. I’ll have to find out the school’s policy on that; she may have already missed the deadline.</p>

<p>Thanks again to everyone.</p>

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<p>It would be good if she could drop the course she is failing, but she is only taking 13 credits.</p>

<p>Well, then, that means if she takes 16/17 easy classes next semester, she can bring up her GPA. (She can look on ratemyprofessors to see which classes are easy A’s.)</p>

<p>If she ends up with - say - a 2.3 this semester with 13 credits, then if she takes 16 EASY credits next semester and gets a 4.0, she’ll have a 3.23 GPA (if my math is ok…lol)</p>

<p>If she ends up with a 2.0, then if she takes 17 easy credits and gets a 3.9, then she would end up with a 3.07</p>

<p>Side issue…there’s more going on here. Your D is only taking 13 credits. That’s a light load. A typical load would be 15/16 credits per semester to graduate on time (unless a student comes in with AP credits). </p>

<p>Your D stated that she doesn’t have time for a job. I think that’s hogwash. I think she fears that a job might mean some weekend nights she might have to work while friends are going out. She’s a smart girl at a top school. Many of her peers are probably taking more credits AND working “work study” jobs.</p>

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<p>I agree, and if the 3/4 merit scholarship your D is on is based on academics, she should also be at the top of her cohort to start with.</p>

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<p>Called the scholarship office. They don’t check grades until the end of spring semester, and if she still does not have a 3.0 then, she has fall of next year to bring it up. If she still doesn’t have it, they withdraw the scholarship then.</p>

<p>So this takes a little of the pressure off.</p>

<p>She’s taking 2 hard sciences, which is why the easy load, plus she came in with 60 credits combined dual enrollment and AP. Idea was with fewer courses she could do better in the sciences, but that’s not working out.</p>

<p>I’m suggesting that she take 15-17 EASY classes in the spring. She could switch her major now, and then after she pulls up her grades, go back to the pre-med track if she still wants to, and after a semester of easy courses she enjoys, sh emay not want to.</p>

<p>I agree that it’s nonsense about her not getting a job. Hmm, maybe if I don’t let her have any spending money she would get one.</p>

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<p>Actually one can really major in ANYTHING and still apply to med school. They do need to take the courses to have the background & be able to do the work but strictly speaking do not need to major in pre-med. Folks often major in some science, math, physics, or even biomed engineering or any engineering but I’ve not heard that it’s REQUIRED for med school apps.</p>

<p>Glad some of the pressure is abated but it does sound like you & D have some issues to work on. Perhaps a counselor for could help you figure out ways to broach them most successfully?</p>