<p>As I said, I’ll describe my impressions more fully after bid night :)</p>
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<p>Even though there’s less structure, I actually found fraternity rush kind of stressful when I went through it. At least at my school, a lot of the events are such that you end up spending the whole day with just one fraternity (things like a trip to the beach, or to an amusement park, or paintballing, etc.) So you’re almost forced to narrow it down to just one or two fraternities after the first day, and at my school there were many more fraternities than sororities. </p>
<p>The method they use rejection seems to be a lot harsher too. I personally got a phone call from someone in one fraternity, pretty much telling me they didn’t want me (of course, they worded it as saying that I should consider other fraternities). Others have the same conversation in person. I think this doesn’t happen too often since maybe it’s not that hard to tell if people like you or not.</p>
<p>When a young woman is cut in a sorority, it generally isn’t personal-it is more of a numbers game. When a young man doesn’t get a bid, it is entirely personal. It seems so harsh to me. </p>
<p>My DS was Rush Chair this year and it just confirmed my belief that fraternity recruitment is unstructured and bizarre. Still, he ended up happy at his place.</p>
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Interesting observation, MizzBee. Ususally it’s women who make everything personal and men who are more about numbers. Maybe women try to de-personalize their system because they realize not getting a bid can hurt and they feel like their way softens the blow?</p>
<p>I’m sorry but unless you’ve experienced a recruitment with 1000+ pnms you have to meet and make decisions on in 1-2 day worth of first round parties you can’t grasp how invaluable they are. Without delving into PRIVATE membership selection (which all members should be mindful of in a discussion like this) recs serve as a way for chapters to get to know the girls coming through before round 1 and so much more. </p>
<p>The bottom line is recs are all but required at some schools, you can dislike it, complain about it and list a million and one reasons why it’s unfair but you’re not going to change it. If you want to have (or your daughter to have) the best chance at a successful recruitment you have to do your best to get those recs.</p>
<p>Oh, please. I was in a school that had and still has a very active Greek presence (about 35-40%). Houses are in the 100 - 120 range and pledge classes are 30 - 40 girls depending upon what the quota is for that given year. My son’s an active member of a fraternity there – same house / chapter as my husband. I serve as an alum adviser to some of the girls and as I said, I was a rush counselor and a rush director when I was there. </p>
<p>Recs are NOT “invaluable.” They are helpful only to match up initial interest – oh, when Mary from Seattle walks in the door, make an effort to have our member Susie from Seattle greet her because that’s a nice way of breaking the ice and finding common ground as you’re getting to know her. But you should be doing that kind of thing during your first round parties anyway, regardless of whether you had a rec on Mary from Seattle or not.</p>
<p>Do systems like the SEC-type systems just not give a darn that x% of the incoming freshman may be girls from backgrounds where their mothers didn’t attend college, or might be international students and thus not familiar with the whole concept? Apparently not. </p>
<p>Actions speak louder than words here. You can be the kind of Greek system of substance where all comers are genuinely welcome, or you can be the kind of Greek system where you really only care if the right girls from the right families who already knew about the system ahead of time get in. </p>
<p>You tell me which system you prefer. I’m a HUGE Greek booster at schools like my alma mater. The other types of systems / schools? Yuck. Unimpressive, unappealing, and it’s no surprise there’s hardly any diversity there either.</p>
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<p>My son has a big heart – one of the qualities that makes him just totally awesome – and he had a heck of a time when he got bids from 2 houses in having to go personally tell the guys at the other house - I like you guys a lot and I appreciate your interest, but I’m deciding to join this other house instead. Who wants to walk up to someone and disappoint them? There is something to be said about the more impersonal route of how girls do it, with the RC as the conduit.</p>
<p>I’m on going to fight with you pizzagirl, I know nothing about your campus culture just as you know nothing about the happenings of SEC recruitment culture. Specifically membership selection and how recs are used. You weren’t Greek at Alabama or UGA or LSU or any other school where recs are all but required. You’re offering an opinion on something you have no knowledge about. You might think those huge systems are “yuck” but history shows they’re strong successful systems. </p>
<p>As for the way you look down on them for how they choose to run things (which btw seems to be working out with tremendous success) so much panhellenic unity and support.</p>
<p>I’m somewhat confused here. In my experience the school I attended did not care one way or another about recs. Certain sororities ( the one I am a member of) were required to have a rec on each girl but this was from the national organization, not the school. Most of the sororities at my alma mater did not require recs. I had never heard of a school requiring them.</p>
<p>My daughter was an RA (never felt any pull to Greek life). From what she experienced the girls that did not get a bid (whether they didn’t pick all the houses that invited them back or they didn’t get picked by any house) all took it VERY VERY VERY personally. Of course, it’s a numbers game, but that hardly seemed to help the individual who felt rejected. She said it was really awful for the unselected during that period of time for the new sorority members when they were showered with gifts, their rooms decorated etc etc, taken to various events by their new sisters. They actually had an inservice on how to deal with the issue (and this wasn’t a big Southern school)</p>
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<p>There’s a difference between “I wasn’t invited back by anyone” (which happened rarely in our system) and “I decided early on that I only wanted to be a Kappa and ignored those nice invites from Chi O.”</p>
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<p>“Normal” Greek systems? Wow.</p>
<p>Listen, my mom didn’t go to college and my family moved south when I was a child so even though you insist on clinging to your fantasy of what Greek life is like in large SEC schools, that’s all it is; fantasy. I had an older sister who was a member of another chapter and they cut me after the second round of parties. It stung but I got over it and ended up in the ideal house for me. My sister had no recs to any houses and our family had no Greek connections and yet somehow we both managed to have positive experiences in one of the systems you malign. </p>
<p>Who elected you to decide what Greek systems are normal? If it were not for the strong chapters in the southern schools the system probably wouldn’t survive so I’m not sure whose system is “normal” but I sure know where Greek life is thriving. I hope they don’t find out that you aren’t impressed; they’ll be devastated ;).</p>
<p>Recs are invaluable?</p>
<p>I found all the UA sorority rush threads fascinating. I was GDI but went to a school with a big Greek presence and rush is nothing like described here. There certainly is more than one way to run any process that can work really well. That said, from the outside, the recs was one of the things that make no sense at all. There were numerous posts telling folks how to chase down recs from total strangers … and then these recs written by strangers are invaluable? It’s a little hard to reconcile those two positions.</p>
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<p>Panhellenic unity and support means that at my college, I get to treat the other women in other houses as the undoubtedly nice and pleasant people they are, until proven otherwise. it doesn’t require me to check my brains at the door or give rounds of “you go, girl!” to systems that result in lots of girls not getting bids or which put up obstacles to all but the predetermined “right” kind of girl.</p>
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<p>It doesn’t occur to you that there are incoming freshman who just don’t know ANYTHING one way or the other about a Greek system until they arrive on campus? See, that’s what makes our system superior. It’s inclusive to anyone on the campus; you don’t have to have any specific before-the-fact knowledge or preparation required.</p>
<p><<<<Sigh. Can we just think for a minute, here? How can they rush if there are rules for recs that a) they don’t know about til they get on campus and b) they don’t have access to if they came from families where their mothers didn’t attend college and hence they won’t know women in sororities who can write them recommendations?</p>
<p>Aside from that, it’s exactly the same thing as the northern systems. @@>>>>>></p>
<p>First, anyone who meets the University requirements is welcome to participate in recruitment. </p>
<p>Second, as has been said by me and others in this thread one does NOT need to know Greek word en personally to obtain recs, there are resources out there. I’m honestly shocked that you as an alumna seem to be blind to this, unless you’re just glossing over it to help your argument. </p>
<p>There are aluminum panhellenic associations all over the country in every state that women can get in contact with that are more than willing to help out a PNM and write a recommendation for them. I’ve done it, my sisters have done it, my friends in other organizations have done it etc… </p>
<p>You don’t need to be bff life long family friends or a legacy to be able to obtain recommendations. </p>
<p>You also keep talking about “when they get to campus” that does not happen at these schools, recruitment is registered well in advance online and typically takes place before classes start. You can’t just show up and decide to go through recruitment. You would know this if you actually knew anything about the system you are pontificating about.</p>
<p><<<<<<it doesn’t="" occur="" to="" you="" that="" there="" are="" incoming="" freshman="" who="" just="" don’t="" know="" anything="" one="" way="" or="" the="" other="" about="" a="" greek="" system="" until="" they="" arrive="" on="" campus?="" see,="" that’s="" what="" makes="" our="" superior.="" it’s="" inclusive="" anyone="" campus;="" have="" any="" specific="" before-the-fact="" knowledge="" preparation="" required.="">>>>></it></p>
<p>Honestly I don’t understand you’re hostility, no Greek system is superior. They are all awesome systems with great and terrific sisterhoods, that foster lifelong relationships, do amazing philanthropy work and contribute to their campuses in invaluable ways. </p>
<p>You complain that the SEC doesn’t give girls from all walks of life a chance, but you’re the one who isn’t giving Greek systems from all parts of the country a chance. Doing things different does not mean good or bad, superior or inferior. If you as a college graduated sorority alumna cannot grasp that then I’m sorry your “superior” Greek system failed to teach you the invaluable lesson that no matter the letters or the school or the geographic location WE ARE ALL GREEK TOGETHER, UNITED FOR COMMON GOALS, IDEALS, SISTERHOOD AND GOOD.</p>
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<p>Yes, I have written recs for girls I didn’t personally know either – the friend of a friend type of thing, and I’m happy to do it. But that’s the whole point. It’s just a formality. Which is why it <em>shouldn’t</em> be taken seriously, because you don’t know if the alum is writing about her best friend’s daughter whom she’s known from birth, or some random young woman. So, why, exactly, “should” you require these formalities, again? What purpose do they serve that you don’t find out in the first 5 minutes of meeting the girl? I’m honestly curious. We only used them for the aforementioned “make sure Susie from Seattle gets to meet Mary” purposes. You must use them for other purposes. In which case, what’s the meaningfulness of recs written by random people?</p>
<p>It’s kind of like the letters that guidance counselors have to write, when in large public high schools they don’t even know the student and they are filling in the blank that Johnny / Mary / Billy would make a fine addition because he / she loves studying history / English / biology. When you know that they don’t reflect any insight, what’s the point?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, thank you for answering my question upthread. </p>
<p>Also, do schools which require recs also have the girls write their own description of where they’re from, what they like to do, how they are as a person, etc? I’m rushing a non panhellenic sorority so this entire process sounds totally foreign but quite interesting.</p>
<p>When your D is a senior it is good to let your family and friends know your D is considering sorority rush. Usually people will offer to write them. I am happy to write them if I am asked. </p>
<p>Not all sororities need them, some do. Many sororities have GPA minimums, it is a bummer if you don’t know that going in. </p>
<p>Mizz Bee gives great advice above! ^^^</p>