@redeye41
I have a good friend who is a medical photographer and I worked with her for years. Her job is very appealing to me. She gets to go to surgeries to photograph and gets to see all of the interesting cases. She helps all of the surgeons prepare and put together their national and international presentations. She helps with the marketing and putting together printed media. She also has lots of miscellaneous duties. She works for a medical school and her good friend is a medical photographer in the hospital. I have no idea what the job prospects are but this could be something your daughter could look into. Good luck.
That is incredibly cool.
Sigh. She came home for Christmas break and everything seemed great. She was happy to be done with the semester and even joked about her “meltdown” and thanked me for caring enough to come see her. That was the first time she actually admitted she was struggling albeit in a joking way. But she said she was glad the semester was over and expected the same good gpa. She rested up for a few days and then we had great family time, shopping, lots of fun things. We had a great holiday. Through friends I got an inexpensive Cello and she surprisingly took right to it— practiced several hours a day just since Christmas and has learned some scales. Last night I found out grades came out. She completely changed and refused to tell us what they were but implied we had forced her to go back to school in the fall when she wanted time off and it’s our fault her grades dropped. Told me her lowest grade is in a class I suggested which means that is my fault as well. She says she didn’t fail anything but was furious with US and blamed me in particular. I purposely held off posting an update until grades and now I am worried again. She absolutely refuses to talk about seeing a counselor and says she is not going back to school to “waste more time on stupid classes”. Just a few days ago she said she was looking forward to next semester because she felt more focused on her major and goals. She had chosen a study abroad program for next year. It changed last night and she keeps reminding us everything is her decision and she doesn’t have to listen to us. Finally, my husband told her that no one could make her go back to school but she would be expected to get a job if she didn’t and it was time to start looking. That really made her mad. I am afraid she is going to take off with her boyfriend when he gets home. They don’t really even know each other, he has been deployed most of the relationship although they regularly FaceTime. My husband mentioned to her that because she has so many general credits already, why not just finish up an associates degree this spring, perhaps into summer if that’s what it takes. She is refusing. He said to her “why not at least go see what they have to offer”. We have two community colleges within driving distance. He told her if she were to take community college classes he would expect her to work at least part time because— and it’s true— she has no experience in the real world and thinks her ideal life is just going to fall into her lap. I asked her to really think about all of the things she will be missing at school— not just academic. She doesn’t seem to care. I want to put my foot down and say if you want our support you need to see a doctor including her old psychologist. She has no access to a car without us and drained through most of her money last semester. I can’t make her see a psychologist but I think it’s very important. Maybe living at home, school part time and work part time would give her some perspective. Then again, maybe apply for the emergency leave to keep her scholarship although if she won’t see a doctor I don’t know if that will be granted.
To be honest I think she has known about her grades for about a week but knew today it couldn’t be kept secret as the “official” day for them to be released was the 27th. Still she talked about new clothes needed for Spring Rush, how she got special permission to take two classes normally held for Seniors (this is true I have seen her Spring schedule— she had to actively seek out teacher permission) and acted like she was looking forward to next semester. Now she says this was never true. That we forced her into school this year. Her grandmother just paid for a pretty lavish spring break saying she deserved it. She and my daughter did this without telling us. Now she has a weeks vacation bought and paid for and doesn’t even want to go to school! Doesn’t want to do anything!
One last thing. My husband will say something but not really try to get her to do anything or hold to any consequences. Yes, it is a real issue in our house that adds to the problem. So all anger gets directed at me because I want to stick to agreements and such. Not sure what to do next. At least when in school she was making progress toward a degree. For free. Now everything is up in the air. Again.
Hugs @redeye41
We went through something similar last year and there are no easy answers. Lots of serious discussions and tears. Ultimately we left all final decisions to her. We told her she could quit school but she had to have a job. We did not require part time job with community college although she did that on her own. She thought she would quit school but I did make her register for fall. When she asked why, I told her that if she didn’t have a job by fall she would have to continue classes, but if she did get a job she could always withdraw. She had a very bad experience with professors when she registered late and we were not going to allow that to happen again. She basically bombed her first semester.
Fast forward. She struggled with the decisions and changed her mind several times. Late this summer she announced she was going away. She turned her grades around and has gotten 4.0 the last two semesters. She wanted us to make the decisions for her so she could blame us. She wanted to quit school until we told her she could. That scared her.
She still doesn’t LOVE school but she likes it fine and has been accepted to her major and is on a path. She is a semester behind because of all of the drama.
It was a VERY stressful year for everyone involved. Good luck!
More hugs @redeye41
This is not a short term crisis, and I think you and your spouse could benefit from some counseling sessions together. You can not control your D’s outcome in this situation, but you can work to step off the emotional rollercoaster she has put you and your spouse on.
It seems that you are more committed to having a backbone and standing up for what you will/will not pay for/allow in your home, etc. than your spouse. That inequity could blossom into major disputes as this situation plays out.
No amount of rules will make a difference if your D knows she can plead her case with her dad and get what she wants. Your D needs to see that you two are united as one, that your decisions are jointly made, and that you will stand by whatever rules/policies/financial arrangements for tuition costs you announce to her.
If your spouse refuses to go to counseling, then you should go alone. I imagine you feel helpless, but you DO have some choices to make in how you react and respond to your D’s behavior. Also, a number of great posters here recommend NAMI support groups. Your D may have some mental health issues that she is refusing to deal with. I am sure NAMI support groups have experience in this area, and members may be able to give you practical ways to frame your outlook for your D’s future in light of her struggles (and refusal to get help).
As a side note, I would strongly encourage you to set as a condition for anything going forward (free room and board at home, etc.) that you see every Grades Report. No Report, no free ride.
I’m not sure I understand…you are paying for the party (sorority dues) and the fun foreign vacation (study abroad) but she won’t show you her grades? That wouldn’t work for me…there is no such thing as a free lunch.
The communication in your house is not good. Your approach so far has not worked. I would call it “behavioral” in that you are trying to control outcome with consequences. I would give that up.
Step back a bit and let her control her own life. Have faith that things will work out. Don’t require anything of her. Tell her she is an adult and can make decisions and as long as she is not abusive she can stay in your house, work or not, go to school or not, seek help or not.
Tell her you realize she has not been able to communicate truthfully with you and you are sorry for whatever dynamic has been set up that has created that situation. Take on some blame yourself. Yield. Stop fighting and trying to salvage.
It also can be very helpful to get a therapist yourself. Not only is that a good role model for her but it shows her you are willing to work on yourself for her sake.
Showing trust in our kids can sometimes backfire but it is worth a try.
Many of us have been where you are. One of mine came home from a great college, got fired from two lowly jobs, withdrew from a bunch of community college classes, refused meds, but fast forward 5 years and things are great. I had to be very hands off and just support her when she fell. I don’t like to write about my kids but am daring to, to give some credibility and relatability to my post.
So sorry @redeye41 - That sounds very stressful, especially when you were having such a good holiday time and she was saying positive things about spring semester. It sounds like she is digging in about some things and being pretty immature in her thinking by blaming you rather than taking responsibility for her poor grades. In that situation, it may be best to back off with the suggestions for a bit, and try to be supportive while letting some natural consequences happen. If she really doesn’t want to see a psychologist at this time, it may be wasted time and money. However, I would suggest that you and your husband go see someone together in order to get on the same page about parenting for this upcoming semester. It is not going to do you or your daughter any good to set expectations and then not follow through, and you should not have to be the bad guy. Maybe having low funds and limited car time will motivate her to look for some work. Hang in there!
“Don’t require anything of her. Tell her she is an adult and can make decisions and as long as she is not abusive she can stay in your house, work or not, go to school or not, seek help or no”
Totally disagree on this. She can make adult decisions and still be responsible. Not being abusive does not give her the right to be a freeloader and take no responsibilities at all. What if she chooses the “nots” in all of the above examples. That is not in any way being an adult.
Out of curiosity, compmom, what adults do you know can live rent free with all expenses taken care of and not work or attend school? That isn’t adulthood, that’s childhood, or freeloading as an adult, but in any event it isnt behavior I would encourage or that would prepare the student for the future. If the student is so ill as to be unable to do either, then immediate treatment, maybe inpatient, is warranted, but don’t enable arts to sit arou d,and do nothing and call it adulthood.
Is she an only child? Her behavior is sounding incredibly childish. Her having trouble is certainly not your fault. Have her start looking for a job and let her know the rent that will be due. Unbelievable that she has a special spring break vacation. Does grandma know the situation?
It sounds like she has no respect for you two. She needs to face consequences. Real life won’t be easier.
I’m sorry that you are going through this.
OP- big hug to you.
I agree with the “our emotional support for you is forever, but our financial support ends 30 days (or 60 days if you are exceptionally generous and/or live in a rural area where job hunting is very time consuming) after you graduate/withdraw/stop going to classes. You can work and pay us a nominal amount of rent to cover your expenses, you can enroll in community college or find a certificate type program, you can go back to college or take time off and find a different program. But if you aren’t enrolled in some sort of educational program to help you ultimately support yourself, you need to find a job. Let us know if you need someone to proof-read your resume. Love you!”
The only way to break the cycle is… to break the cycle. She’s got you spinning like a top with every shift. So stop. Let her know that you love her and that you trust her ability to make good decisions going forward. And remind her that you’re happy to help find a counselor/therapist if she’d like some perspective from an outsider. And then sit back.
Husband and grandma? Oy vey. Agree that if you can’t get your H to see a counselor go by yourself. And you can remind grandma that the vacation is a sunk cost- i.e. it costs the same if your D goes on the trip or doesn’t go on the trip. No extra charge to grandma. And your D may well NOT be able to go if she’s just started a new job and has no vacation time coming, or is at community college where the trip dates coincide with midterms,
More hugs.
Interesting to read through the variety of opinions! I think I get what @compmom is saying in #106, and yes, it sounds counter-intuitive.
I highly recommend seeking out the help of a skilled therapist for yourself, @redeye41 , even if H will not go with you (that might change down the line).
We had some big bumps with one of our kids, and I did wonder if she’d end up back at home instead of continuing with college. Upon deep reflection, I realized I did NOT want her to come home if we could help it. Having her here full-time, in a mood, would be a dust-up that would ripple through all of our lives. Option of last resort.
So, we put our energy and some money into doing what we could for her to feel like a competent adult, and part of that equation was for me (primary parent) to back way, way, way off ---- which is sort of amusing to me because I see myself, compared to parents around me, as very hands-off already. Luckily, for all of us, we have not had to intervene and she is still at school.
To the chorus of hardliners in this thread, I’m not disagreeing necessarily, but I’d remind the OP that one has to feel comfortable with unintended consequences. You might think if I do A, this will naturally force kid to do B. Well, kid might do N, something you hadn’t even considered and it might set off a chain of events that would not result in a better, happier life for anyone involved.
This is where a skilled therapist who “has seen it all” can really help you be less reactive to what your kid says and does, and help you figure out your next steps — in context of the present events, plus the overall big picture.
Good luck! Lots of people going through these situations! You are not alone!
I think the analogy of OP “spinning like a top” is appropriate. So maybe your goal, OP, is just to figure out how to stop yourself from spinning.
As @blossom states, you can break the cycle. You can not control how your D reacts, but you can stop reacting to her harsh words and decisions about her future that seem to change daily.
It is SO HARD to let go, to let them flounder, or fail, or just make bad decisions that will cause major consequences in the future. You can be a better support to your D if you are not spinning out of control yourself. Ground yourself with outside support (therapy/NAMI/good friends) and with your spouse if possible.
Love the child you have on your couch right now. You can offer emotional support without agreeing to fund every tangent she wants to explore.
@Midwest67 I’m not sure if I’m a hardliner but I agree with the hands off approach. She seems spoiled. Let her do whatever she wants BUT if she lives home then she pays rent because that is what adults do. And there would be a limited amount of money if she wants to go somewhere else. Let her live with these consequences. If she wants to leave and go live with the boyfriend, let her live with those consequences. You can’t chase her around her whole life ready to catch her if she stumbles. Sheltering her from real life does her no favors.
How can you say she seems spoiled based on what the mom wrote? She seems upset that her grades were not what she expected and perhaps that is making her question everything. Perhaps she is spoiled, perhaps she is taking advantage, perhaps she is just venting and will end up back at school, doing well.
I agree with Midwest that is harder than it sounds to cut off a kid completely as you don’t know how that will impact them. They may get a crappy job and decide to go back to school or they may stay in a dead-end job for a long time or make some other worse decisions. Tough love is not always a guarantee and a college-aged kid is still not a fully formed adult even if they are a legal one.
If (and to me this is a big if), she decides not to go back to school or to take a semester off, you need to lay out the expectations for work or community college and what you want in terms of rent or other payments. One of mine is still on a “break” from college, but has worked and been self-supporting since he stopped going to school (we have been paying his health insurance when he is not covered by work).
Good luck and don’t despair.
The one thing a lot of people don’t understand is that it can be a lot harder to practice tough love with kids with depression. We tried this after D15 graduated from high school, turned down scholarships, quit jobs, and made other terrible decisions. The end results were kicking her out and her trying to kill herself and being hospitalized. Her therapists and psychiatrists said that will not work with her. We are still struggling to find what will. People need to understand every child and every situation is different and what you can do with some kids could have terrible consequences with another.
Good luck to the OP
@mom2and Well starting from the point this kid would not speak to her mom, made her go all the way to school to check on her then refused to speak to her and gave her no choice but to call security and then was rude and angry. There are so many things. It seems wrong to pile on and list them all. If not spoiled then insanely inconsiderate.
I feel for you. I agree with those who said that you and your husband have to get on the same page, present a united front, and go from there.
If “everything is her decision and she doesn’t have to listen to you” as she says, let her be an adult and make adult decisions which include the adult responsibilities of paying her own way. If she wants you to finance everything then, no, “everything” is not her decision. She doesn’t get to tell you how to spend your money.
Ugh ugh ugh, not a great update and I’m sorry, OP.
Tough love might not work but I’m pretty sure helicoptering (and I don’t mean it in the pejorative sense) is not the answer.
You can maybe call the school and see if there’s a way to put the scholarship on hold - but if there isn’t, or if it requires D jumping through hoops she has no intention of jumping through, I think it’s time to let her flounder.
The paid-for spring break - not your place to countermand that side deal, but I’d be pretty annoyed also. I also think spring break, even if it’s paid for, will be kind of tough to handle financially with no other source of income for things like food and drink and event costs, and I am suggesting you not provide any.
I believe in paying rent if you’re staying in the house and not going to school. I would also worry about the BF and her leaving with him. But she’s of age and there’s not a thing you can do about that.
I also think you and DH need to present a united front. You and he need to sit down and figure out your boundaries. He needs to know that caving is not helping. And you probably need to know that ultimatums aren’t the way to go with this D. (I am living your exact marriage, btw)
Figure out what your H hopes to accomplish with his approach (it might not be what you think). Try to understand where he’s coming from - see if, between the two of you, there’s a way to accomplish both your goals. Which, really, should only be to get your daughter in a happy and productive space, wherever that may be - and it might not be college.