Need advice

So DD has been accepted to two schools, waiting to hear from 4 more. Of the two schools she’s been accepted to, one is a large state school where she’ll receive in state tuition because of reciprocity. The other, is a private school that has given her a scholarship that will cover about 1/3 the cost to attend. She had the opportunity to earn another scholarship to the private school that would have covered an additional 1/3 of attendance, however, she blew off the application and submitted very bad essays, so that option is most likely out. She is blowing off school, not doing homework, currently has two As, a C, a D and an F. We have told all our children we will cover the cost of what it would cost to attend our state flagship school, anything above that they need to earn merit money. With her scholarship, and our help, D is still $11,000 short of having enough to cover cost of the private school where she’s been accepted. However, I feel her lack of performance at school right now shows that she does not deserve the money we’ve promised her, or at the very least that her only option should be the state school. It’s early in the quarter, and she has time to raise her poor grades, but whenever we try and discuss it with her, she’s defensive and rude. We are at our wits end. We are considering making up an agreement that we will all sign…she must raise her grades, to the level at which she had performed previous years (her GPA through junior year was a 3.88) or her only option is to attend the state school. What would you do? She is seeing a therapist for depression, anxiety, and ADD…but anytime we try and discuss something with her she throws her anxiety in our faces and tells us we’re stressing her out. The poor grades are because she’s not turning in homework. We’ll ask her if she’s done her homework, she replies “yes”, but when I check her grades she hasn’t turned it in.

Frankly, it’s very likely with a D and an F that her admissions (and scholarships) will be rescinded, perhaps at both schools. I don’t think I’d peg the bar at a 3.88 but I would certainly say nothing below a C.

You’re definitely in a tough situation here but I think you’ve made a lot of good decisions. It was smart to give her upfront how much money you can pay; a lot of families keep that information a secret until late in the game which just causes unneeded stress.

It sounds like your daughter is still working out some issues and I can see why sending her off to any school, even a state school that you can afford out of pocket, might be a poor use of time.

The thing about merit scholarships is that they often have GPA requirements as well. Let’s say she manages to drag her Fs up to C-minuses or something and manages to keep the scholarship. Is there any reason to think that she won’t have challenges in college? If the scholarship requires a 3.0 for example and she consistently falls short of that, she could lose the scholarship and end up having to transfer out of the school. The reason this is bad is because it is often harder to get merit aid as a transfer than as an incoming freshman and failing classes/transferring could possibly disrupt her ability to graduate in four years.

The $11,000 extra that she needs to cover the cost – is that something that the two of you will be borrowing? If that’s the case it even more important to get things squared away. It would be bad if you borrowed $11,000 or $22,000 or more to pay for an expensive private school and she ended up having to graduate from the state school anyway.

@Erin’s Dad: Her grades for the first semester senior year were a 3.5. Half As, half Bs. Her school only reports semester grades on transcripts. The semester just started two weeks ago, so there is hope to get the grades up.

@DmitriR You expressed our fears exactly. We discussed having her take a gap year, to see if she matures more so that she ca

It is an incredibly stressful subject to be dealing with, and I wish I had good advice for you. Can you talk to her therapists to set something up with the three of you together to discuss what’s going on? She may be less defensive if she feels like she has the therapist mediating the conversation.

If she were my child, I’d have her take a gap year and get a job. Part of the responsibility of being a student is actually doing the work, and I’d make it clear that you’re prepared to help pay when she’s shown that she’s prepared to do the work.

I would be more concerned about the not well managed anxiety/depression and ADHD than the grades per se. What interventions are there other than therapy? Medication? Has she worked with a coach? Developed specific habits to compensate for lacking executive functions? Does she have a stress reduction “toolbox”-exercise, meditation, yoga, breathing, etc.

It sounds like you are now hesitating on paying the agreed upon amount because even if she brings her grades back up you are worried she will tank next year. That is certainly a very real concern. But frankly, I don’t think threatening to withhold the money will provide the long-term fix needed here. Can you reach out to her therapist or another professional to figure out a plan to help her succeed?

If you haven’t already, I would also strongly encourage you to read and learn as much as you can about teens with ADHD. Additude magazine has a lot of very good webinars available as podcasts, including ones specifically geared to teens heading to college.

You aren’t alone.

Thanks everyone. We have discussed a gap year. We are not considering reneging on the amount we agreed to pay, if she where putting forth her best effort, we’d be willing to pay the cost of the best school for her. We are planning on going to her next therapist appointment with her.
Please explain more about coaches, this is the first time I’ve heard of this. We’ve never sought out accommodations for her ADD, because, up until this year, she has always managed to get her work done. It seems as she gets older, her anxiety

Gets worse.

For some reason my messages keep getting cut off at the end.

Step back for a moment and try to be a bit more objective which is near impossible I know. You’re too mad.

Your D has been accepted to schools so obviously has done very well in the past. She had to have worked to get there. So she is smart and capable. Made great grades in the past.
She is being treated for depression already and other issues.

So taking just those few comments of yours into account:
Her behavior really looks like major depression which you should consider for your D’s sake. I know of course I don’t have any facts beyond what you put in your post…

Symptoms (according to your post):
She’s blowing off school work, essays at a very inopportune time which is maddening to say the least to you especially since there are deadlines coming up. And you shake your kid but nothing happens.
It’s out of character–you know she can do the work–it’s just not being done. Always been a great student.
Reason doesn’t work.Talking doesn’t work. Kid shuts down conversations ( rude). Are you wondering where your great kid went?

Anything sound familiar in the scenario? (if not to you then I’m sure others will relate in some way)
Now her grades are dropping and she seemingly doesn’t care. (underline the seemingly)
She’s rude.and defensive about why this is happening. Answer: she can’t give a reasonable answer. She blows you off. And that makes you mad too.

(Not in your post but common) Still is okay with friends and favorite diversions but school seems impossible so now you REALLY wonder what gives? Your kid has time for computer and friends but not homework? You don’t get it. Time to take away perks in your eyes.

Maybe you ask as a concerned parent…“what’s up?” …“tell me your problems…”
Truth…
If it’s depression she probably can’t articulate her lack of feelings to make you understand. So much easier to say how we feel about something rather than we can’t feel at all. Mull that over for a minute. There are a million words to describe feelings but nothing to articulate the absence of feeling. So you get a sullen response.

You say-- At the least turn in homework!-- It’s all simple day to day stuff to you–how hard could it possibly be? Just do it!
Huge for a person who can’t move and feels everyday is quicksand. Homework is totally not on your to-do list.

Any of this sound familiar? I’ll be thrilled if it’s so much simpler! But don’t close your eyes.

My very short take if it’s depression…
She is NOT doing this TO you. It is not a personal choice of hers. Look at her past performance–she’s done you proud for years. Give at least some credit. Acknowledging that will let you move forward to help your D. Flip it all over and tell her you are totally there for her and see if she can verbalize what’s in her head. The answer may be “nothing”. which may be a frustrating response but truthful.

Ask her what she thinks needs to happen to help her.
If her present therapist isn’t helping–HAUL her to someone who can.Now.

A very depressed person does not have the mental or physical reserves to make it through the day. Literally. They sometimes struggle to FEEL anything. Think about that for a second…you don’t feel anything…you don’t care about anything…you know you should care/feel but you don’t. What keeps you going is knowing that you know that isn’t the way it should be. You need help but who you gonna call?

Unless she is truly ill I would not renege on the amount you agreed to pay. You are coming to the point in your DD’s life where the consequences are going to be on her. She’s likely not to get that message. You were very wise and lucky to have committed to X amount. What she ends up doing with it is up to her. That she lost opportunities to other schools because of her slacking off, is on her. Rather than getting her defensive, let her think about it herself. She is likely hoping that the private school comes up with the award anyways.

When you reneg or punish, it makes it easier for people to push the blame on you instead of shouldering it. When it’s your kid the consequencs can hurt.

A lot of this isa bad case of senioritus.

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She is seeing a therapist for depression, anxiety, and ADD…


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Is she on meds? If not, why not???


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.but anytime we try and discuss something with her she throws her anxiety in our faces and tells us we’re stressing her out.


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Unless you’re being inappropriate, this answer is a control one…and you can’t let her do that.

You need to send her to a local school where she can commute if necessary that you can afford without merit scholarships. You have to be ready that her college education may not be a straightforward 4 years affair. There may be medical leaves, part-time studying, coops, etc.

The college will ask for final reports from HS and that would show all the grades. You better contact the adcom ahead of time once she got the final grades so that you can arrange some back up plan for her. If she really get a C, a D, and an F, the chance of getting rescinded is high.

D or F grades will make the risk of rescission high. In that case, she may have no choices for college except to start at a community college.

I like the gap year recommendation. I know a lot of students that have benefited from a year of personal growth before hitting the books on a college campus.

She is two weeks into the new grading period? How many grades have the teachers inputted? Have you always kept this close an eye on her grades?

Most important, have you discussed this with her therapist? Is she scared because all of a sudden college and leaving home is “real”. Is she “defensive and rude” because she is scared of failure? Have you looked at any accommodations she would be eligible at either college? Has the therapist discussed a plan to transition her to another care taker when/if she leaves for college.

How long has anxiety been and issue and how long was she stable prior to these recent events? I am sorry to bombard you with questions and really they are more issues for you to think about, not provide answers in a public space.

Aside from the mental health issues (which should be the top priority here) and second semester senior grades, if she does not get her admissions and scholarships rescinded, it may not be a good idea for you to back out of any previous promises. You mentioned that she has two possible choices in terms of finances:

  • State university paid for by you.
  • Private school with $11,000 remaining after your contribution and her scholarships. This is a very stretch budget that she can come up with from a federal direct loan and work earnings. While it may be doable, it is not particularly advisable to live on the financial edge when there is a lower cost option, since there is an increased risk of having to drop out due to not being able to earn enough money. Of course, it will come with the student loan debt as well.

Really, it looks like (by not getting the second scholarship) she set up this choice herself, leaving the state university the obvious choice here, with the private school being a financially risky choice. And if she does poorly enough to get her admission to these schools rescinded (D or F grades make this likely), then she will have effectively limited herself to start at a community college.

I.e. you don’t have to be the “bad guy” by backing out of previous promises. She will own the results of her actions and choices.

My senior year of high school, my depression and anxiety spiked and I started failing 3 of my classes that I absolutely NEEDED to pass in order to graduate - much less keep my acceptance to my dream school.
My parents nagged me and that made it worse. Personally, after my parents mentioned that the University could rescind their acceptance if I did not maintain a certain GPA, I got my ass in gear and worked on my own.
I think that if you have promised your daughter money to go to school, do not back down on that promise. Threatening to take it away might give her a sense of hopelessness. Do, however, stand firm in that you will not pay more than the $11,000. It is up to her to earn the grants and merits.
If worse comes to worse, she will go to the flagship school and will regret not trying harder in high school.
Give her positive reinforcement and encourage her to keep trying, I’m sure she’ll overcome it.

Thanks everyone. Again, we are not backing out of our agreed upon support. I did let her know that the schools could rescind her scholarship and admission. She is trying harder, has the D up to a B, is slowly bringing the other grades up. Right now I’m focusing on being supportive.