^ Agree that she needs to start owning her decisions.
I also want to add that she seems like she needs to be centered (I find that aikido helps) and get enough sleep. It also seems like she’s on a hamster wheel just because people seem to expect that from her (or she expects that herself but for reasons other than to make herself happy).
Tell her that she needs to think deeply about what would make her happy in the long-term and work backwards from there. But also that she has to own her decisions as she is an adult now. She may take your suggestions, or not, but you have to tell her that any advice from you is non-binding but any decision by her has consequences that she has to face. But also that there are many paths to a goal in this country. I personally think that college after working a few years is more ideal. Kids would appreciate schooling more and have more of an idea of what to take. Finally, kids act immature with parents all the time because they know that you can’t get rid of them, but you don’t have to give them the reaction they crave.
Tell her that it’s her life, but she’s not going to be truly happy if she is enabled. For her own sake and her own happiness, she needs to woman up and become an adult.
“So maybe your goal, OP, is just to figure out how to stop yourself from spinning.”
This. I’m guessing you are doubly upset because things go well and then go south so fast with your D and you find yourself “the bad guy” once again with fault placed on your shoulders. Nobody signs up for abuse nor deserves it…
But maybe backing off is the way to go.
First you need facts.
" Told me her lowest grade is in a class I suggested which means that is my fault as well. She says she didn’t fail anything but was furious with US and blamed me in particular. I purposely held off posting an update until grades and now I am worried again"
You should know her grades. It feels like the crux of the entire conversation on so many levels.
You can’t discuss anything or even worry if you don’t know the facts. There is a WIDE range of possibilities and differing expectations when it comes to grades.
“.She absolutely refuses to talk about seeing a counselor and says she is not going back to school to “waste more time on stupid classes”. Just a few days ago she said she was looking forward to next semester because she felt more focused on her major and goals.”
Just a thought. Is it possible that you or her have such high expectations that you’ve set her up for “failure”.?
Maybe she just feels like one. Perhaps you don’t realize how much she wants to please you (like taking a class she didn’t want to). She’s lashing out but knows it. She doesn’t need “fixed” by a counselor.
College is difficult and high grades are not always possible. It’s not HS.
She didn’t “fail” anything in your words. What does that mean to you? What does it mean to your D?
In my day, it meant you passed and ( yea! ) you get to continue.
Right now without seeing ALL her grades you don’t have any perspective on her college progress. Or maybe you aren’t telling.
(My mom was the “you made a 98 on this test–what happened to the other two points?” My dad was “here’s some celebratory money–go have fun! Good job!”–I’ll have to say that Dad was the favorite on that front…)
Does she talk to grandma?
" Her grandmother just paid for a pretty lavish spring break saying she deserved it."
Does grandma know something you don’t? How would grandma know she “deserved” it otherwise?
Was it— “I’m failing this class and it’s hard, don’t tell mom!” and grandma said “stick with it!” and she did ?
To someone who doesn’t have mental illness, saying everything is your fault is actually empowering. Because if it’s your fault, you can fix it. Are you unhappy? In pain? Made mistakes? Then figure out the root cause of your unhappiness or pain and do something to make it go away and be happy. Learn from mistakes so that you don’t experience that pain or unhappiness again. If you still engage in actions that cause you pain or unhappiness, then figure out why you are compelled to engage in them. Keep long-term happiness as the goal and keep in mind that the world is constantly changing.
And get centered. Meditation or aikido or something else.
I find Tai Chi helps me keep detached, and yoga has helped the kid I described earlier so I agree with Purple Titan.
I have never charged any of my kids rent. The drive for independence is naturally strong and they have found ways to fund their own housing . One kid, the one who came home, lived with me for two years but worked her way into jobs that could pay the rent (this can take time too, rents are high where we live) and shares with friends.
When all is said and done, it is our relationships that matter. And are most helpful to our kids.
I worked for a long time in a homeless shelter. The first few years it was smaller and less professionalized, and less “therapeutic.” Welcoming with fewer rules. I thought it worked much better than the later administration that booted the guests out in the morning, gave them time limits and work requirements and so on.
Behavioral approaches really do have their limits and can make people feel manipulated. I know it’s counterintuitive but I would have a talk, tell your daughter you have decided to trust her and her decisions and step back. Let her live in your home until she is ready to leave. Offer her help with volunteer or intern positions or other programs that might help inspire her if you can afford it. Think long term not short term. (For my kid, long term WAS working at working class jobs, which have increased her confidence. She refused offers of financial support to do anything fancy and I completely respect that too.)
ps I just saw some of the posts that responded to an earlier post I wrote. These kids are NOT adults yet. My image is more of someone coming out of cocoon slowly. Ripping it away prematurely or when they are struggling can have dire consequences. I personally have found that the drive for independence (as I said) and the drive for engagement in the world is incredibly strong, barring mental or medical health issues and that when left alone, most kids will move on. Certainly paying for increased costs to parents like more hot water or electricity is reasonable if needed.
That said the strongest feeling I have about parenting is that consistency is paramount. I have good friends who parented entirely differently than I did and their kids have done well with consistency of approach. That is why I can read many of these posts and admire parents and families who are so different than mine.
But please, let’s keep it polite and respectful when we do disagree. I promise you that my approach worked with my family. I have persistent kids who have gone through all kinds of things with resilience and grace. I cannot promise you that my approach will work with your kids. Of course. Every parent knows their own kid and family and circumstances. I think it’s great to see different approaches, and the OP can benefit from all of them.
@compmom So. Then it is harder if she is even saving. Put the money aside for her educational expenses or wedding. Her mother is not her personal whipping girl though the daughter certainly treats her like one.
Some things in life should be hard. It does the kids no favors to make their lives as easy as possible.
Your D reminds me in some ways of my middle son, the one who is brilliant, funny, an Eagle Scout and a victim of ODD with anxiety. He is 23, home from college since we pulled him out on a retroactive medical withdrawal and leave, one year ago. Things were going okay that last semester and then H freaked out and called security to check on him. I had begged him not to but he was in rehab after knee surgery (H was) and I wasn’t there to stop him. H called because my son wasn’t calling every day to check on his progress; H tends to the narcissistic. That is not my son’s way. After that visit from security, my son stopped responding to any calls or texts or emails from H. He would answer me about once a week, which was similar to our prior pattern. I paid for D to drive up and visit the campus. Since she is a graduate, I sent her up for alumni weekend, which didn’t arouse my son’s suspicions. D said he was angry that H had humiliated him in front of his dorm mates and RAs. I finally got my son to admit that he wasn’t going to classes and we got him a medical withdrawal based on counseling he had had the previous summer.
It’s a year later. He isn’t working. I don’t give him money but he doesn’t really seem to need any. I do pay him if he does something extra and he works occasionally as an election inspector. I feed him, clothe him and pay for his medical and dental care. I don’t charge him rent. He has always been resistant to counseling and it has never proved successful in the past. H and I don’t always agree but I am terrified that he will become mentally ill like my sister and H’s sister, so I don’t push as hard as I would like. I pushed him this past summer to take online classes, which he said he wanted to. Fortunately, he confided in H that he wasn’t doing the work and we were able to withdraw him before he failed again. I have decided that I am not going to pay for any more education for him. In the past couple of months, he has started to open up to us and to spend more time in our company. We are taking it slowly with him and hoping that he can resume his education at some point. However, I am not pushing him until he is 24 and can qualify as an independent student for FA.
Our situation is complicated by the fact that my oldest son dropped out of college as well and didn’t really work until I told him he was coming off my insurance and he would have nothing. On a side note, the individual mandate was a big factor in convincing oldest boy to get a job and he is now with USPS. Thus, the fact that I allowed my oldest son to not work till 25 is an example to middle son, even though he knows oldest is Aspie lite and they can’t be compared. My third son is also a college dropout. He is severely dyslexic and, though he’s bright, school has always been a struggle for him. He is looking for a job but not having much luck.
I feel for OP because there are some kids that you just can’t force or push or you will lose them. With my son, I am happy that he has a great core group of friends. They are starting to graduate and go out in the working world and I hope that seeming them advance in life will motivate middle son to want to do so as well.
Re #127: Yep. Very immature (as many are at that age).
Personally, I would say "We will give you free lodging and food; something other people wouldn’t. But everything is your fault. You can choose to take charge of your life or be a loser (and it’s OK to be a loser! I’ve given up expectations for you; but that also means you’re free!) If you want a shoulder to cry on, I’ll be here, but I also won’t be your emotional whipping post. If you’re going to act immature, I’ll treat you like a 5 year old and send you to your room (send dinner there as well) and ignore you until you can discuss things in a mature manner.
And if you take up mediation/tai chi/yoga/aikido/Buddhism to help with your emotional control, I’ll pay for the fees.
Other than lodging and food and the emotional control stuff, if you want to spend our money (for education, etc.), you’d have to make a proposal like an entrepreneur looking for VC money and convince us that it is worthwhile to invest in your future.
Taking charge of your life is hard. Long-term happiness is hard. Anything worthwhile is hard.
Just remember that everything is your choice, we have no expectations other than that you act maturely around us, so don’t blame us for your decisions."
I would add one more thing and that is that I now live in a studio apartment and my kids aren’t that old. I wish I could still offer them a home! If they sleep on my floor I guess I won’t be charging them rent
@PurpleTitan That is nicer than what we would do. There would be an expectation of getting a job in our house. No one sits around all day doing nothing. Or DH would have a long list of chores.
Hmm, though thinking about this more, this may work better with boys.
Guys will find that living with mom and dad is very unattractive to the opposite sex.
Girls can always dream of running off and being supported by a guy.
I understand that there are young people with mental illnesses who cannot function independently. DH was 19 when his father died of a heart attack. It was just the two of them since his mother had separated from them. DH had to do everything himself which includes being the executor of the estate, running his father’s machine shop which had gone into backruptcy while his dad was ill, renting his former childhood home out by himself and going to college. We are not perfect parents but our boys have been taught to be self reliant. There was no emerging from a cocoon. They understood hard work and how to take care of themselves because that was what was expected. When I started working I paid my parents some rent. When my mother started working she did the same for her parents. It made no difference to being able to move out but it did teach budgeting and the value of things. We would not have kids who were not ill freeload. It does them no good IMHO.
I don’t know that I agree that this works better with boys. None of my 3 older sons has any inclination to leave home. Only my D went away to college and moved out. The jury is still out on S17. Maybe it’s genetic in my family. I left home at 18 and H literally lived at home until we married when he was 36. My oldest son has had the same gf for 9 years. She lives with her grandma.
Free loading is very appealing. I wouldn’t expect it to change unless it was forced; why should it?. I would love to have all my expenses covered and not work and have someone else take care of me and all the housework. Who wouldn’t? Isn’t that why the rich hire servants? They seem to manage with any minimal loss of independence just fine in exchange for a life of leisure and your kids would too.
I think the OP has done what she can and now it is time to turn the decisions over to the daughter. I’d say to her "I’ve told you my opinion that I think you should stay in school, and I’ve told you that if you chose to leave school or change schools the money may not be there to pay for you to go back to school and you’ll have to finance it yourself with loans, but it is your life and your choice. If you want my help in picking classes or a major, I’m happy to help. If you want to arrange a leave from your school, I’ll help you.
“You can live at home and take time to make your decision. You’ll be expected to help around the house, you’ll be expected to be polite to your family. You may use the car to look for a job or go to music practice, but other than that you’ll have to ask permission just like you had to when you were in high school. You’ll have to earn any money you spend.”
Some time off may do her good. Some kids are not/were not ready for college at 18, and should have taken the gap year. My daughter really needed to take a semester to work at Disney because it had been her dream forever. She screwed up and lost her merit scholarship (8 CONSECUTIVE semesters was a term she didn’t understand) but she had tried to arrange it and it was a mix up between the scholarship office and the registrar’s office, and they reinstated it (after I called). She made a whopping $9/hr and spent it all on the room and board, but she really needed to do it. Now all her friends (and her sister) are graduating in May and she’s not. All part of learning life’s lessons.
Sometimes kids need to see what it means to earn $9/hr, to work 40 hours a week when their friends are all going on spring break with cash in their pockets, to say hello to their new friend FICA., or just to sleep all day and have no money. That gets old too. The colleges aren’t going anywhere, they’ll be there in a year.
OP, I am so sorry to hear it and don’t have any answers to your question. But I wanted to encourage you to keep faith in your child and be at her side and remain as her friend even if it feels somewhat unreasonable and disappointing. I feel that she will eventually find her way.
I don’t think it is a parent’s duty to be a fair judge. There will be plenty of people who will judge her, as this thread proves. What they need from a parent, at a time of confusion and crisis, is reassurance of unconditional love and support, and not another tough lesson of how life really sucks. They get plenty of that elsewhere.
