Dealing with Stress

College Majors Music Major
1

To Parents/Students:

Is it just me, or does the whole music process just stress you out? Maybe everyone else is blissfully sailing along with their lessons/teachers/programs whatever, but for some reason my mental health seems to be super fragile.

So, do you/your kids experience stress? Please discuss how you cope with the process.

I wil apologize in advance for the length and unnecessary details below. I don’t want anyone to think I am using CC for a personal diary, but I am trying to sort out my thoughts.

Long paragraphs follow:

I have feelings of inferiority. I am always comparing myself to other people, thinking “(insert player here) was THIS much better than me at this age, after X years, I bet everyone else can play this piece, etc…” I experience periods of calm, but these feelings can be easily triggered by one comment by the teacher, reading players’ biographies, youtube videos in which prodigies/teenagers can be seen in the “Suggested Videos thumbnail.” And, worst of all: FROM THE TOP. Yes, this is why I avoid the radio like the plague noon on Sundays. (Lol.)

Furthermore, I started late (I think) at age almost 15, have now been playing 2 years. In my casual web browsing I often google stuff like “players who started late” etc. trying to find people I can relate to, but few are to be found. The few players who did start ‘late’ seem to make extraordinary progress in a short time, practicing large amounts, so I naturally feel a desperate urge- (perhaps I could make crazy progress too-!) - which results in overpracticing and frustration.

Anyway I just spent way too long on frustrated non-practice of a 3-octave scale… A famous player stated he began these when he was 10, but I can only struggle through a C-major scale and none of the rest. x_x I had the grand idea that I would learn every scale over the summer, thus ‘making up for lost time’ but apparently this is not going to happen.

Of course, I, too, wish I could go on From the Top, showcases, play my favorite pieces and everything, but then I hit a dead end. Something doesn’t work out, someone says something, or I record myself and find myself worse than expected. I avoid Youtube, the internet, players’ bios, maybe to deny reality, and pretend I am better than I actually am.

The benefits of camps, competitions, etc. are that you can see how you fare in comparison to the rest of the world, but what if you’re not good enough for any of those things in the first place? x_x

2

Hi.

Long paragraphs are great.

I can offer limited perspective. I don’t even play an instrument. My S does. He is 16.

I asked S what he likes about playing music. He said he likes the groove. That sounded good to me. What do you like about playing music?

My S also sort of “started late”, and I’m not saying he has caught up to any particular level. Here is one story. He has been transitioning from a percussion focus to a bass focus over the last several months. He is still playing out the tail end of his percussion experience this summer in DCI as a snare drummer. He heard about DCI for the first time exactly 1 year ago. He posted video of his playing on a fairly expert form and received much critical feedback - his playing just wasn’t in the ballpark. So, we started to look into getting better. The key element in that effort was that we went to an audition at a very top drum corps with the purpose of coming away with a recommendation for an instructor. We luckily picked a great instructor and all of the insights and techniques came together. So, that story may be useful or not, but we have seen mediocre instruction and very good instruction. We still wonder if we will be able to see stellar instruction - we theorize about its existence. We dropped a percussion instructor to take on this new one, and now we are accustomed to the idea of seeking out great quality and have a vague sense of what it looks like. Our impression of good instruction is that there is a fairly noteworthy discovery every 10 minutes - a posture change, an angle adjustment, a new concept, etc. These discoveries are brought to the student’s attention and left as homework to develop further.

My S is probably also starting late on bass. I have to say his fundamentals are probably good - music reading, general senses, determination, thoughtfulness, and perspective. He started on upright bass just a few months ago, after a couple years on electric bass. You can see with the hurried learning od DCI snare and now the late start on double bass, it seems like he is always behind and trying to catch up - that is what he and I say. We discuss how it seems like the things he is lacking is technique, and the instructors are able to add a lot of value there. Yet, even with a late start and S’ desire to study jazz bass in college and auditions just 1.5 years away, I would say my and S’ focus is not so much on ‘how to catch up’, but more on ‘what is a good use of time’ and ‘what is wise.’ If we were truly facing a late start, then a logical solution would be a gap year. If we were truly facing a plateau of talent, then it would be logical to seek appraisal/advice/instruction and see if another career choice or another learning approach were in order.

I can’t really write words that can be followed literally by another person, but those words would be to relax enough to assess what you really want, and take some times with that. If there is not some major mismatch between your body/mind and these goals, you can inch your way forward and conquer quite a bit. Small purposeful steps.

Best wishes.

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I am not unsympathetic, but I’ll begin by saying that you are using the wrong standard of comparison. The only person whose progress is relevant to you is YOUR OWN. It doesn’t matter what others are doing, it is your own goals
and aspirations that need to be considered.

So, considering your goals, what are these? 15 is late to start an instrument in the current environment and your
personal goals should be reasonable. I hope that you want to develop the ability to play your instrument for personal satisfaction and that you can take great pride in how you started from nothing and can now play music that you enjoy. If your goals are early admission to Curtis, you should undoubtedly re-think.

It is frustrating to feel unable to join in while others seem to play easily and well. The truth may be different. I’ve observed the lives of many young players who were proficient at young ages. At the risk of being very dark, I have also seen at least one suicide attempt by one pushed too far, know of one young adult well on the way to alcoholism and know many who are vastly underemployed and whose talents and accomplishments are vastly under appreciated. Life after “From the Top” is not always rosy (and I am not implying any judgement on “From the Top” or early music instruction.)

The suggestion that you consider your teacher is a good one. I can truly sympathize with you here having personally
had experience with a teacher who was absolutely wrong for me – I made little progress and felt horrible about myself. This was not an abusive person, he was actually quite appropriate in all instruction, but he just did not understand my
difficulties and could not change his methods. As he was great with many others, I was convinced the problem was with me. Do consider as objectively as you can if your current teacher is properly supportive of your goals, level and ability and is giving instruction that is helpful and bringing positive change to your playing.

Another thought for you, sometimes (most times I sometimes think!) our personal practice is not as efficient or targeted as we think it is. Again, personal experience!! The mind is racing about so many factors – how we sound as we play, what’s coming next, how we just played a particular passage, etc, etc. Our goals may be confused – I need to learn notes, I need to “sound better”, I need to understand the phrasing, I need to fix those 16th notes, etc. etc. Sometimes all this stimuli results in just doing, doing, doing without a more scientific approach to analyzing the problem and resolving it. If there is someone – perhaps a school music teacher, trusted more advanced player, perhaps even your teacher – who can analyze your practice habits this may be a great help. There are also books available on developing effective practice habits and I’m sure on-line hints.

One of the things I have worked on with students is to get them to STOP after one beat, half a bar, after 2 bars, after a phrase and analyze what just happened. The stopping is actually hard for many as our minds don’t want to stop in the middle of something, we feel compelled to continue on to a logical resting point, no matter how bad this sounds! By stopping, even just a “freeze, then continue” our ears and minds can focus on specifics and muscles learn good habits – not just slop through at all costs! 3 octave scales – put the stops in just before or after shifts or string changes (if you play a string instrument), if you’re a pianist - stops can go before and/or after a fingering change over or under thumb or at coordination points between the hands, wind player before or after register changes, major fingering changes, etc. I think you can get the idea.

Music can be very personally fulfilling and exciting – it can also be the worst task master in the world. Go easy on yourself. You play and you are improving your accomplishments. Most people cannot do what you are doing and most people don’t even know what it is like to dedicate themselves to trying something as difficult as what you are learning to do. Don’t let what it appears others can do upset you. You are in the game also for as long as you want to be.

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Sorry about some of the strange spacing above. I don’t know how those breaks got in. I hope it’s not distracting.

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@GoForth your son is lucky you are so involved in his musical journey. I have read many of your posts and I wish my parents cared as much as you! It sound like your son is making really fast progress? Also, as a teenager, doesn’t he feel bad that he started late (and probably hears about people better than him all the time)?

Whenever my teacher mentions his other students offhand-- “My students have played these pieces in a set at recitals!” and, with a starry-eyed look, “Yes, some of my old students are pretty serious about it… One of my students is playing that piece…” My heart drops like a stone!

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You posted back in April that you were stressed out. Rather than focus on the relative success on others, why not focus on what you can do yourself. It’s your life. There will ALWAYS be someone better than you.
I would suggest seeking professional help from a medical specialist who can help you cope with your stress issues.

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It seems that you are suffering from regret that you started late, and impatience to catch up. I think there are some things that cannot be rushed, like technical and artistic progress. I am not saying practice won’t speed development. If you think of learning to ride a bike, it comes much easier at the moment you are ready. If you push it before you are ready, you can practice many more hours and make less progress. And the stress will slow it down in some ways.

You cannot “make up for lost time” and it is important that you enjoy the time you do have.Stressing too much will take away the main reason for doing music :slight_smile:

We don’t know what instrument you are playing (or maybe I missed it). The late start is not as much of an issue with some instruments.

What are your goals and hopes for music? Are you thinking of conservatory? College or university with lessons and ensembles? There are schools where you can study music very happily as you are and as you will be with the hard work you are putting in. Promise.

Perhaps if you could tell us a little more, we could help you with schools.

This summer, try to enjoy what you are playing. With things like scales, maybe concentrate on quality not quantity. Play pieces you can play well, to feel that sense of mastery, and not only pieces that are a stretch.

You sound very dedicated and I hope you feel better about all this.

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Yes, I am sorry, it probably sounds like I am having issues since both threads have dealt with this topic, but I am making progress with my issues. I hate to bother people on these forums, but since I have no musical acquaintances some outside perspective is useful.

I lurk here often but I rarely start threads in case I have some motivation, which in both my cases has been negative/stress related stuff. anyway sorry, it is rather silly when people try to deal with mental health issues over the internet, but know that I am making outside progress as well.

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@compmom Thanks, I will maybe consider posting threads about schools after discussing with my teacher (hopefully soon lol).

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Don’t be sorry. Just know that if you are struggling with stress, negativity, or depression—it’s just going to make coping in the very competitive field of music impossible. Don’t let stress ruin your relationship with music.

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oh…and get some musician friends.

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@sushidog123 - We, S and I, probably exist in a very low-key environment. On the one hand, we have to really reach out to find out what is going on, who to learn from, what to learn. S is the only person in our realm who is even pursuing music as hard as he is. So, that might be a disadvantage if we miss a key thought in S’ preparations. On the other hand, we don’t have to listen to much chit chat about who’s doing what. So, our lack of stress could be related to different environmental factors than what you have.

We talk about that he sort of started late by measures that you might find here on CC or maybe in social settings that you experience, but we really don’t care (caveat, if his instrument were piano or violin, like others have said, maybe we would feel bad). Anyway, we have seen a phenomenon we will call, uh, “seniority.” Some groups or organizations have people that have been in them for a while and moved up the ranks from “rustling leaves” to “wonderful winds” to “symphonic sensations”. This is probably great, but we have noticed that there can be too much focus on ranking and “seniority.” We wonder if folks get too comfortable in some of these groups. So, while it probably is important to become excellent, maybe it is possible to get distracted with ranking at the same time. I don’t know if that makes sense, but it sounded right.

S decided he wanted to be a musician. He could change his mind, but he is pretty mentally balanced and tough, so I figure, OK. His only back-up plan in my opinion is the having of a bachelors degree (BM), which at least is helpful as a pivot point, but it doesn’t dilute too much the focus on music performance along the way. He has zero desire to go into music education, so at least we have talked and gotten a snapshot of exactly what the plan is today. When he said he wanted to be a musician, I said, “OK, you’re a musician now. Go forth.” You see, he can go play right now. Not at the top gigs, but he can see if he likes playing. He can see what it is about. I told him to think of college as something that comes in the midst of his music career, that there is magic sprinkle bestowed by college or a new instrument or anything else.

We watch some youtube. Mostly I scout things out, but so does S. We look at college auditions that people forgot to publish unlisted and we look at pro’s. It is natural to note all of the fine qualities of these players, but I don’t think it leads to the feeling of being far behind, but more the feeling that there is more awesome stuff out there to learn.

I told S that a key thing that will help ‘him’ out is to be organized. So, he developed a habit of carrying a small notebook and pencil with him. He writes down what the instructor said after the lesson is over. He reviews the notes once in a while. He will think about what to practice well before it is practice time. He has runs where he does practice 2-3 hours per day, but right now, he is off in drum corps without opportunity to practice much bass (actually a cheap electric bass is sort of available to him). We are probably heretics to the study of jazz bass, but he got on it during a recent break and said he just “played on it and got better.” What does that mean? Not sure, but I trust his judgement. So he is doing some cross training, certainly not burning out on the main instrument. I think the time taken so far to sort out some musical interests has been great.

Well, I just blurted out a lot of words. If any of them strike a cord, feel free to bounce it back.

So, what do you like about music?

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My impression to
“My students have played these pieces in a set at recitals!”
“Yes, some of my old students are pretty serious about it… One of my students is playing that piece…”

first was “Awesome. Sounds great.”
but then became “Why are we talking about that at my lesson.”

Does you instructor chit chat a lot? I have found that to be bad. I associate very direct, curt comments and a lets-move-it-along flow to good instruction.

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@GoForth Funny, I see how you got your username.

Though I am confused, I don’t know anything about jazz, (electric bass is the bass guitar they use in rock bands right?) but your son doesn’t even have his own instrument? Also isn’t it rather strange, that he plays multiple instruments, etc. if he wants to be a jazz bass major? Or maybe in jazz you’re supposed to know multiple instruments, I dunno.

But I am used to hearing about people focussing on one instrument only for many hours every day. Does your son plan to attend conservatory?

Anyway, if I was him, I would be freaking out, what with only 1.5 years left till audition, but he seems pretty chill.

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I probably jumbled some words, trying to put my strange ideas into writing. He does plan to play electric bass (like in rock music) and upright bass, both as jazz. He does take classical music lessons on the upright bass, but only to appreciate intonation and bowing better - he might not develop the chops for orchestra (?). The drum instrument is something he is phasing out of, to focus solely on bass, but he is wrapping up the culmination of his dedicated drum training by marching in DCI this summer. However, the drum practice has helped him develop certain appreciations he would otherwise not have. He may or may not end up being qualified for a conservatory later. He will do his best to develop his skills, and then we will trust the judges and admissions officers to admit him to his level, and then he will continue forward.

He doesn’t have his bass instrument “with him”. He is traveling in a bus and sleeping on gymnasium floors carrying a suitcase of clothes with him. He can only occasionally get time with his cheapie travel bass. The good basses are at home. He does have the drum corps snare with him of course.

I freaked out when S was trying to train up to get into DCI (drum corps). I read about people playing for 8 hours a day. Well, after sorting out many stories, I believe that 2 or 3 well-planned hours a day is about enough for anybody serious, and maybe 2 such sessions in a day for preparing for special auditions. Your instrument may vary.

I have a friend whose son was an All-American baseball team member - this is very very good, in baseball. One season in high school, this son was put on the ‘B’ team. My friend’s friend said, “what’s up with that?” My friend said, “Don’t worry about it.” It didn’t take long for the son to be shuffled up to the ‘A’ team where he belonged.

In careers I have seen, those who keep applying steady efforts to their work chops usually have things work out alright for the most part. I have only heard of “late start” problems in “big law” where if you miss a certain recruitment cycle out of college, you might not get on the track that leads ‘to the top’. Just one opinion I heard.

16

I’ve been playing piano since I was 7 and I STILL experience stress. A lot of it.

The music field is so competitive and extremely rigorous. Piano especially seems to have a lot of people who’ve been playing since they were four years old, along with people who’ve played for 3 years and can play Flight of the Bumblebee and what not.

I can relate to you in that my mental health is quite fragile, so it’s easy for me to get stressed. I try to tell myself that everyone has their unique talents in the field. Fingering is not my strong suit, but phrase-shaping/emotion/general musicality is. Some people can play very complex pieces very fast, but don’t have that same emotion. Thus, I try to focus on my own strengths rather than theirs.

I think it’s important to remember that there are, like, 10 piano “prodigies” in the world. At most. Out of 7 billion. They all get a lot more media attention than the average, though, so it makes you feel like there are a lot more than there are. You don’t have to be a prodigy to get into a music school. In fact, you don’t even have to be great at many schools. I know some decent/good musicians, in my personal opinion, who have gotten into very competitive conservatories.

Still, I decided very recently to drop my aspirations of double majoring in music education and music therapy and decided to pursue psychology instead, and I am much happier and much less stressed this way. It was hard for me, because I love music so much, but I just had to accept that I wasn’t built for it on the long term. But overall I am happy with my decision. As I said, music is a very competitive field, and most of the people in it are extremely passionate about what they do, and I just wasn’t at that same level of dedication. I do intend to stay very involved in clubs and what not through college and beyond, though.

Are you looking into music schools? What do you play? What do you want to major in? If you’re worried about getting good to get in, I think there’s a lot of variables here. Music performance is a competitive field, while just about everything else is more lax. Piano is the most competitive instrument. Instruments like violin, trumpet, flute, and sax are also fairly competitive. Major in something like french horn, oboe or bassoon, though, and you only need basic knowledge. Not a bad idea to try to learn one of these if you think it’ll help, since you have time.

And that’s another thing. You’re only 15. You never realize it at the time but you can improve soooo much in 2-3 years. Probably more over the next two years than you did over the last two years, since you’re now much more comfortable with your instrument.

You’ll be great. I promise. :slight_smile:

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I would be careful about saying things like “major in french horn, oboe or basson” you only need basic knowledge, that isn’t true, at least not for competitive performance programs. While the level of playing required for piano and violin is very high (believe me, violin is as competitive as piano, for much the same reasons, the two of them are the major solo instruments, along with Cello) , especially given they they start very, very young which you can’t do with an instrument like bassoon, french horn or oboe, that doesn’t mean admission isn’t competitive, it is. First of all, they only take as many instruments as they need for their orchestra, so on a given year they might only admin a handful of oboes or bassoonists or french horns, so while less kids play these instruments, they have less slots. You need to be very, very good to get into a competitive program on the non solo instruments, the level of playing may not be quite as crazy as violin or piano but it is up there.

As far as stress and worry goes, it comes with the territory, it is very, very common for kids, even the ones you probably consider “great”, to worry about how good they are, they look at other kids and say “wow, look how good they play, I don’t have a chance”. That kid that won that major competition may very well be thinking “did that really mean anything?”. momofadult is very, very wise, you can’t do that because it will drive you nuts. It is one thing to want to benchmark yourself, but the reality is there isn’t a reliable way to measure "how good you are’ by looking at the kids on From The Top, or winning some competition. I know of kids who were on From the Top on violin, who couldn’t get into any of the top conservatories (more on From the Top in a little bit), whereas a kid who if you compared their CV against one of the ‘hotshots’ would look hopeless, gets into a dream teacher at a dream school. The stress comes with the territory, and you kind of have to look at it as I am determined to try, and I think I can do it, and work on making yourself the best you can be. My S went through one of the top pre college programs and saw all kinds of kids who in many ways were better than he was, yet he got into the studio at conservatory of one of the more in demand teachers around, and came to realize that even in a studio full of killer students, he had attributes some of the other kids didn’t have, while they have things they did much better than he.

I also wanted to comment on “From the Top”. While I think it is an amusing program, and you hear a lot of great musicians on it, it also in some ways is an entertainment program. Kids often get on the program because they have ‘a hook’, a 'good interest story", “something different”, the kid who is a musician who also happens to be a talented swimmer, the kid who started taking college courses at a young age, you name it. There have been plenty of kids and ensembles on there who technically and musically were good, but not spectacular, so don’t judge much by people getting on there,it may not be what you think.

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From The Top is a great show but you should also know that, like other syndicated radio broadcasts, the episodes are highly produced by talented engineers. They record a full take at dress rehearsal and will re-take sections as often as they need to to get a clean enough recording–even before the live show. Then they tape the live broadcast and create an engineered version (often interviews are cut drastically, too) that shows the performers in the best possible light. So, and particularly for solo and small ensemble work, you get a very clean but edited version for the air, a version that fits precisely into the the time slot. The live performances are different. Of course, for the most part the performance are at quite a high level to begin with, but the appearance of near-flawlessness can be intimidating and discouraging to aspiring musicians. There are many reasons for selection–often there is a local kid included with kids who are brought in from other locations. The hooks are not a reason for the original selection, but rather come out of the extensive pre-show phone interview. The show is loosely scripted with room for improvisation, but interviews are always carefully edited because they have a strict time limitation. Anyway, I can think of dozens of fantastic young musicians who, for whatever reason, were never selected for From The Top and still went on to do quite well.

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I think a successful private teacher-student relationship is a two-way street and there needs to be a level of trust and understanding of what your goals and aspirations are; ones that the teacher supports and is committed to guiding you toward. Regardless of how inexperienced you may be as a musician, I think you’re old enough to have that conversation with your teacher. I think it’s your responsibility to communicate to him/her what you think you want to do with music. And your teacher’s responsibility to be honest with you about whether he/she thinks your goals are realistic and how he/she plans to guide you there.

I think a major part of your stress is the uncertainty from not having arrived at that understanding. I know it’s scary but I encourage you to bite the bullet and talk to your teacher. It’s like the classic band-aid analogy; just get it over with. If your teacher is under the impression that you’re pursuing music “just for fun” and you have bigger goals that your teacher isn’t willing to support, then you need to listen to his/her reasons and decide for yourself if your goals need to be adjusted. If you and your teacher can’t get on the same page, then you need to find another teacher who can be.

I don’t think anyone can say that music isn’t a competitive field. No one can promise that you’ll be great or guarantee that you’ll be able to make a living doing it. But you can take steps to make it less stressful for yourself by having YOUR own plan. That doesn’t mean ignoring what others are doing because I do think it’s human nature to set goals relative to what others are accomplishing. But if you have a plan, you can judge yourself against your own plan.

20

I have a very odd relationship with music. I have played musical instruments since I was in kindergarten, basically the opposite of OP. I have routinely been top of my section in band. People assume that I will be majoring in music and are surprised when I tell them I want to be an engineer.
The dirty little secret of all of it? I won’t major in music because I still want to enjoy music. If I ever have to rely on my sixteenth notes or my tone to keep my grades or make money, I’ll stop enjoying it.
That said, it’s kind of impossible to do music without getting stressed. Stress is an inherent part of performing, and music is a performance art. And the whole comparing yourself to others thing? That is how you improve. Every professional musician and music teacher you will ever meet will always give you one piece of advice: listen to music. You will not not be as good as the people you listen to, almost guaranteed. But through listening to people who are better than you, you will find out what you need to improve.
Another thing to think about is that music takes a lot of coordination. You have to be thinking about about fifty things at once, not least your tone, fingering, articulation, vibrato, tempo, tuning… Each day you practice, focus on one element and do exercises, either written or made up, to work on that element. For example, today I want to focus on my articulation. So I pick some Vivaldi or Bach with funky slurs and staccatos. Tomorrow I want to do vibrato so I will do a lot of slow pieces that are expressive.
This post is sort of scatterbrained, but I hope it helps!