<p>I just got a letter in the mail today from CSUCI (my local CSU) saying I was denied admission because I failed to meet the Admissions requirement of Oral Communication.</p>
<p>However I am getting an AA-T using the IGETC UC pattern (oral comm. not required for certification) which by law guarantees my admission to the CSU system even without the oral comm course. So what should I do to assert this?</p>
<p>I've already sent them my AA-T verification and transcripts.</p>
<p>I’ll be blunt. You are trying to find a loop-hole in the system. The fact is, until you go to court, sue them, and a judge rules on your side, your technicality means nothing. </p>
<p>Put yourself in the adcons possession. 1000s of other students followed the guidelines and took the required speech class, why should they make a special exception for someone who didn’t want to play by the rules? </p>
<p>@bomerr - Because it’s the law. I sent them the verification of the degree which guarantees my admission.</p>
<p>Loopholes are the American Idealogy people are successful because of loopholes if you sit by and just conform to what they want you to be or expect you to be what makes you any different from another person?</p>
<p>“Conformity is the jailer of freedom, and the enemy of growth”. - John F. Kennedy</p>
<p>@Matt4200 You have an AA-T, so you will get into at least one CSU. You will just have to play the waiting game because you are going to be the last person they will accommodate due to the loop-hole you are using. Just about every other applicant will have completed all of the Golden Four so they will have priority. Your options are to sit and wait, or find a late-start speech class. </p>
<p>@matt4200</p>
<p>Transferring into a CSU with an AA-T, I believe is not a guarantee. Just yesterday my transfer advisor said the it gives you maybe a 1% better chance than those without an AA-T, but is not like the uc tag which is a guarantee. </p>
<p>I think it allows you to transfer your degree which puts you at a jr and those guaranteed number of credits and completed classes vs someone who just transfers in with 60 credits at jr credit standing, but missing required classes. I am a poly sci major and also had to take a comm class for cal poly and Sdsu for the aa-t. I was never asked for a verification and didnt send in, and got into slo without but might be screwed for not sending one into Sdsu. So maybe check with your transfer advisor and maybe have them call the CSU school to help figure out the situation for you.</p>
<p>Good luck!!</p>
<p>@knhofto - I’m pretty sure the one I’m guaranteed to is supposed to be CSUCI, and what should I do if they just never send me an admission as I’m guaranteed at any CSU?</p>
<p>@5nonnegotiables - California Education Code, “the California State University shall guarantee admission
with junior status to any community college student who meets all of
the requirements of Section 66746”.</p>
<p>And here is the above mentioned section 66746, </p>
<p>“66746. (a) Commencing with the fall term of the 2011-12 academic
year, a student who earns an associate degree for transfer granted
pursuant to subdivision (b) shall be deemed eligible for transfer
into a California State University baccalaureate program when the
student meets both of the following requirements:
(1) Completion of 60 semester units or 90 quarter units that are
eligible for transfer to the California State University, including
both of the following:
(A) The Intersegmental General Education Transfer Curriculum
(IGETC) **or ** the California State University General Education-Breadth
Requirements.
(B) A minimum of 18 semester units or 27 quarter units in a major
or area of emphasis, as determined by the community college district
and meeting the requirements of an approved transfer model
curriculum.
(2) Obtainment of a minimum grade point average of 2.0.”</p>
<p>That’s why it’s called ** “A degree with a guarantee”. **</p>
<p>@matt4200</p>
<p>Ok …well thank you and …good to know.</p>
<p>So is it the CSU u apply to or if not do they have to offer you admittance at atleast one CSU?</p>
<p>@5nonnegotiables - It not necessarily the CSU you apply to.</p>
<p>You are guaranteed to at least one CSU though, if it you didn’t apply there.</p>
<p>But you are given priority consideration at all CSU’s if you have the AA-T.</p>
<p>Most likely you will be sent to your local CSU though.</p>
<p>So I’m kind of lost here lol I’m calling CSUCI Monday and informing them, or maybe I shouldn’t and I should just wait and sue them for failure to comply with state laws and get the admission + damages and they will be fined by the state?</p>
<p>Oh and for you, </p>
<p>**"A student admitted under this article shall receive priority
over all other community college transfer students, in accordance
with subdivision (b) of Section 66202, excluding community college
students who have entered into a transfer agreement between a
community college and the California State University prior to the
fall term of the 2012-13 academic year. **
The California State University shall develop an admissions
redirection process for students admitted under this article who
apply for admission to the California State University, but are not
accepted into the California State University campuses specifically
applied to. This process shall be aligned with the guaranteed
admission into the California State University system under
subdivision (a).</p>
<p>according to your own link, it just says “eligible for transfer”, that isn’t the something as guaranteed admission, likewise “A student admitted under this article shall receive priority” doesn’t mean they can’t reject you for not completing the golden 4.</p>
<p>You are not guaranteed admission into any particular CSU, although some CSUs (ie SDSU) give priority to local students. Honestly, I don’t know if there is anything you can do, aside from filing a lawsuit. This is a new law, I don’t know that there is some oversight committee that can force a CSU to let you in. An ADT is not required for admission into a CSU, however, all the CSUs I know of require the Golden Four. You can tell them that they HAVE to let you in because you have an ADT, and they can tell you they don’t have to because you don’t meet their admission requirements. Then you can go back and forth until you are blue in the face and probably have the same end result.</p>
<p>Like I said, if you don’t end up being admitted into any CSU, you could follow a lawsuit. But I don’t know that you have a chance at winning because, although the law may not specify which IGETC pattern you have to follow, it is implied. A judge could tell you that the UC-IGETC pattern is irrelevant because you are applying to a CSU. Therefore, the CSU pattern is implied because ADTs only applies to CSUs.</p>
<p>To add upon what the previous poster said, the law is vague on the exact meanings of “eligible” and “priority,” furthermore it makes no specific mention of the speech class you are lacking. It does NOT explicitly state that you may enter a CSU without completing the Golden 4. Step back for 1 second.</p>
<p>When the ADT law was being created, do you think their intention was to create a loop-hole so you could transfer into a CSU without speech class? I’m going to say No. Even if what you @matt4200 are saying is within the letter of the law (which is may not be as I have pointed out), it’s still against the spirit of the program. I have no doubt that if this issue did goto court, they would end up modifying the law to remove the ambiguity. </p>
<p>@bomerr - This is the portion you are quoting, " a student who earns an associate degree for transfer granted
pursuant to subdivision (b) shall be deemed eligible for transfer
into a California State University baccalaureate program when the
student meets both of the following requirements…".</p>
<p>It says it clear as day right there if you meet the requirements listed below ** YOU are deemed as being eligible **</p>
<p>And until such time as the law is rewritten, which they did edit the law in 2013, but did not change the IGETC portion of it, so clearly they did not see it as needing any clarification, or meant that either form of IGETC is suitable.</p>
<p>@knhofto - A lower court judge would not dare to attempt to interpret the meaning of the legislature it would either be handled out of court because it would cost the CSU’s tens of thousands in attorney’s fees, not that they can’t afford them but because it could easily be resolved, or be sent to a higher court which could/would take years to hash out.</p>
<p>Bottom line is the law is the law is it not? And as of today the law states what it states and they must follow it as any other business does. They have no right to deny me admission completely. </p>
<p>I’m not going to a CSU and have no intent of going to a CSU but I would like my admission as I am guaranteed, and because I paid the fee to have my transcripts sent over lol</p>
<p>“eligible” means they can accept or deny you; why are you interpreting it as “guaranteed admission?”</p>
<p>“Bottom line is the law is the law is it not?” The bottom-line is it seems that you are misinterpreting the wording. </p>
<p>Wait - CSUCI? There is no such place. What school are you talking about?</p>
<p>@bomerr - did you skip reading this post???</p>
<p>"@5nonnegotiables - California Education Code, “the California State University shall guarantee admission
with junior status to any community college student who meets all of
the requirements of Section 66746”.</p>
<p>There’s no mistaking that wording</p>
<p>@Flossy - CSU Channel Islands</p>
<p>1st. The full quote reads. </p>
<p>"The act also requires the California State University to guarantee admission with junior status to a community college student who meets the requirements for the associate degree for transfer, and provides that admission to the California State University under these provisions does not guarantee admission for specific majors or campuses. " </p>
<p>So basically without the speech class you aren’t competitive and you will get last dibs at transferring to a CSU. </p>
<p>2nd. “(A) The Intersegmental General Education Transfer Curriculum (IGETC) or the California State University General Education-Breadth Requirements.” </p>
<p>The problem is you completed IGETC for UCs, not for CSUs so, like @knhofto pointed out, it’s still in the air wherever you completed the correct IGETC pattern. </p>
<p>So they still have to admit me somewhere even if it’s last dibs?</p>
<p>Or they’re not complying with the law correct?</p>
<p>I just feel like I made the effort to send them my transcripts, get the degree, get the verification, they should do their part and send me my admission as the law directs them to.</p>
<p>Dude come on, quit the victim act. You are trying to exploit a loop-hole to get into the CSUs without an admission requirement. Because you completed IGETC for UCs and not CSUs, it’s unclear whether you are eligible for transfer.</p>
<p>“A lower court judge would not dare to attempt to interpret the meaning of the legislature”</p>
<p>You interpreted the meaning of the legislature… A judge has more authority than you do. Yes, a lower court judge can and will make a decision on a case based on their interpretation of the law, especially if there are no previous rulings on similar cases. </p>
<p>Like I said, you have to either play the sit and wait game or suck it up and take the class. CSUCI has every right to deny your admission. You have no case until every last CSU denies you admission. To know whether or not that will happen, you will have to wait until all of them are finished making decisions.</p>
<p>@bomerr - but you said it yourself I’m still guaranteed even if it’s last.</p>
<p>@knhofto - Can’t I just check admission decision dates for all the CSU’s and once it’s past then they would have broken the law?</p>