<p>@bomerr - According to the letter of the law I am eligible, and my the articulation officer at my CCC campus agrees which is why they are granting me the Degree. </p>
<p>My CC counselor told me to take the coursework to get the Degree two years ago and I asked multiple times if I could get it without the speech course and they said yes the law allows for it and so does the college catalog. </p>
<p>Because of the AA-T’s introduction my CC cut the Sociology Degree in favor of the AA-T, so because my counselor told me multiple times to do all this coursework to
Fulfill the degree requirements and reassured me that I could get the degree and everything that comes with it (a guaranteed admission to the CSU system being one of those things) and I have done everything that he said and the law is on my side I see no reason I should not be admitted, and once admitted be required to take the speech course.</p>
<p>Matt: Maybe this is my interpretation but I’ve seen your previous posts and it seems like you are doing anything and everything to use the law to your advantage and argue/debate loopholes to make money. Just take an online class and go in for your speeches if you really are sincere about getting an education at a CSU. But your intentions appear to be to sue anyone, in this case the CSU’s, just to make money on the backs of state taxpayers; you really appear to have no intention of going to a CSU. Your intention seems to be to get a rise out of people and to debate/argue on CC and try to abuse the state system. That’s just bad karma and it’s going to turn around and bite you back. </p>
<p>@aunt bea - I intend to become a lawyer someday and this is good practice no?</p>
<p>Also literally all I want is the acceptance that I’m legally due and if I was sent an acceptance letter id be content right now instead of on here.</p>
<p>I worked my ass off the last 2 years in CC out of 4 and I haven’t received any sort of recognition, my first acceptance would feel great yet I haven’t received on yet even though I’m legally entitled to it. </p>
<p>As mentioned before I’m not planning on attending a CSU, I TAG’d to a UC and applied to multiple UC’s, but just to know that I got into at least one CSU through a legal loophole would make me feel awesome.</p>
<p>I don’t want any money, I just want what I’m due. Nothing more, nothing less.</p>
<p>I’m not attempting to “abuse” anything, I’m entitled by law to an admission, why should I not get what I’m entitled to?</p>
<p>And what exactly does one communications course do in a person’s academic career? Absolutely nothing, that’s time and effort that could be going into the 6 classes I’m currently taking.</p>
<p>I apologize if you don’t see it my way but the law is the law if I must abide by it so must you, and everyone else on here as well as businesses such as the California State University.</p>
<p>Maybe you are legally entitled to an acceptance, maybe you’re not. But regardless, it’d be a LOT easier to just “play the game” than turn it into a legal battle. Why spend all your time and energy and possibly money trying to settle this dispute, when you just take the speech class? It seems like a much more effective solution. </p>
<p>@baileyj57 - Because multiple people who research degree requirements and the law told me that I am getting the degree and if I’m getting the degree I am then legally entitled to the guaranteed admission.</p>
<p>I don’t wanna sue anyone and I don’t even want to go to a CSU I just want to have successfully used a legal loophole as well as to get an admission to the CSU system (my first 4 yr admission).</p>
<p>And to ur question why not just take the speech class?</p>
<p>Because if I’m going to a UC it’s pointless and it’s time wasted, time that could and should be used prepping for upper division work and my new life wherever I end up.</p>
<p>@matt4200 you have been preaching about the Aa-T for months and about the law and the loophole. You’ve been patting yourself on the back for making your CC give you the degree. People have told you for months that the Golden 4 is not something you can really get around. Perhaps you could go to court, and perhaps by some slim chance you might even win. But how long with all of this take, and how long could this delay you finishing your education? You keep saying that the CSU’s are only a back up for you and that you plan on going to a UC. </p>
<p>Is your goal in all of this to just be right, or is your goal to actually transfer successfully and finish school? </p>
<p>@2016Candles - I’m transferring to a UC so it makes no real difference as far as delaying my education.</p>
<p>But the law is the law and I’m on the right side of it, they are not.</p>
<p>Okay say I decide to file a lawsuit, I could state in the lawsuit that I was not given the option to attend a CSU because they failed to comply with state laws and I made numerous attempts but they still failed to comply and due to this I had to accept an offer of admission at a secondary school (a UC) instead of having the option between the two.</p>
<p>It’s not my fault the law allows for you to earn the degree with IGETC for UC as well as IGETC from CSU.</p>
<p>It’s like if you win a bet on a technicality are you not entitled to the winnings? Yes, of course you are because you won.</p>
<p>@Matt4200 Yes, you can wait until admissions dates have passed and then (according to you) they have broken the law. At that point you can talk to your school counselor, congressman, or hire a lawyer. But just because your school certified your IGETC and gave you an ADT, does not mean you will have automatic admission into a CSU. School advisers frequently make mistakes and, unfortunately, many students have lost their admissions to schools because of bad advice.</p>
<p>Like I stated previously, I do not think you have a case and this is why: An Associates Degree for Transfer has no relevance in the UC system, it only pertains to the CSU system. The UC-IGETC and CSU-IGETC are two completely separate things for two completely separate school systems. The letters IGETC do not make them interchangeable. The law may not specify CSU-IGETC, however, the entire law ONLY PERTAINS TO THE CSU SYSTEM. Therefore, it is implied that you must complete a CSU-IGETC. The UC-IGETC is completely irrelevant. It has no meaning in the CSU system because it does not meet one of the most basic requirements for CSU transfer, which is completion of the Golden Four with oral communication. </p>
<p>Here is an analogy that does not have anything to do with UC’s/CSU’s that might put it into perspective: Let’s pretend like you live in Arizona and would like to apply for a driver’s license in California. You go online to the California DMV website, pull up the form, and read the requirements. The requirements state “You must be a resident of this state to obtain a driver’s license.” You are a resident of “this state” of Arizona, and technically the law does not specify which state, just “this state”. Is this a loophole for you to obtain a California driver’s license while being an Arizona resident? Absolutely not. You are applying for a California driver’s license through the California DMV website, therefore, you must meet the California residency requirement.</p>
<p>Ambiguity does not equal loophole. You have to take into context the entire law, not just one sentence of it. </p>
<p>Honestly, why do you want to continue to waste your time, energy, and resources on a school system that you do not even want to be in? If you do have this much time and energy, then it could certainly be put towards taking that speech class. </p>
<p>“Conformity is the jailer of freedom, and the enemy of growth”. - John F. Kennedy</p>
<p>JFK never had to do a college app. His dad had the Navy give him a commendation instead of a court marshal in WWII, had a ghost writer do a book, then extorted the Pulizer committee to give him the Prize. Joe Kennedy got all his kids, including JFK, into Harvard by threatening to cut off his substantial contributions. Even had Teddy reinstated after he was thrown out for cheating in an exam. </p>
<p>If you are going to quote someone who got through adversity, quote someone who actually had some. </p>
<p>@knhofto - I’ll get my admission I’m speaking to the head admin at CSUCI tomorrow and explaining the law to them, we will see if it gets me anywhere.</p>
<p>And whether it is implied, the written letter of the law is what I followed and it is what they must follow as well.</p>
<p>@oldindie - Just because the man had little adversity doesn’t mean what he says isn’t valid.</p>
<p>And being the first Catholic President when the entirety of America distrusted Catholics because they were beholden to the pope or so it was believed and that was tough whether you think so or not. </p>
<p>Matt I gotta be honest, I am really disgusted by your attitude.</p>
<p>1st) You seem to think the world owes you something. Like you are a special snowflake the world needs to bend to accommodate you. Get a reality check. It’s not like you even have a 4,0 GPA or are taking the most rigorous courses. The fact is you failed to play by the rules. The same rules 100,000s of other students have followed. i.e. finish speech class. </p>
<p>2nd) You seem to lack any understanding about the law. The law isn’t about finding and enforcing minor points. It’s about the grand scheme. The ADT program was designed to assist students who want to transfer. Students wouldn’t take worthless AAs at their individual CC and then find themselves needing lower-devision coursework upon transfer. Stop trying to warp and twist the program to suit your own needs.</p>
<p>3rd) You have no respect for other people’s time. What is your objective? You don’t even care about attending this CSU. People have better things to do then play along with your games.</p>
<p>@bomerr I completely agree . This forum is a place to get support from people who are going through what you’re going through. It’s also a place for all of us to learn from one another-both our successes and our mistakes. In the year that I have been following posts and making posts, I have learned so much about the transfer process to Cal States and UCs. The number one thing I think I’ve learned from this forum is that we cannot rely on our community college counselors to always have the best information. </p>
<p>Most of us on here have taken the time to take the right classes, fill out the right paperwork,do the correct applications, write the essay, or do whatever is required to make us eligible to transfer to our respective schools. If you’re not willing to do the work that’s required to get into any particular school, them you don’t deserve to go to that school. </p>
<p>@matt4200 you’re trying to get support from a group of people who understand the requirements, and followed them. Why would any of us interested in supporting a person who knew the requirements, understood the requirements, but didn’t feel as though they applied to him? You sound like a child. </p>
<p>“Conformity is the jailer of freedom, and the enemy of growth”. - John F. Kennedy</p>
<p>You want the CSUs to go by the “letter of the law”, isn’t that conformity? </p>
<p>“And whether it is implied, the written letter of the law is what I followed and it is what they must follow as well.”</p>
<p>The “letter of the law” written specifically for the CSU system. Going by the “letter of the law” does not mean that you get to cherry-pick one sentence out of a law and use it to fit your needs. The UC-IGETC does not exist in the CSU system. It is irrelevant, null, not taken into account whatsoever. In a law written specifically for the CSU system, there is no need to put “CSU” in front of “IGETC” because the only IGETC that exists in the CSU system is the CSU-IGETC. </p>
<p>I find your attitude disgusting, as well. You want to be granted admission to a CSU just so that you can say that you got in on a loophole, not because you actually want to attend the university. You want everyone to conform to YOUR interpretation of the law and do not care whose time you have to waste to make it happen. You are wasting people’s time and money all because you want to “win.” By continuing with the “battle,” you are taking time and services away from people who actually WANT to attend CSUCI. </p>
<p>Perhaps it is time to step back and look at the bigger picture. Concentrate on the classes you are taking for the universities you actually want to attend.</p>
<p>@mat4200 I seldom post on here but I have to agree with the above posters. I don’t understand your mission. All i can say is, if I was you, I would not waste the time and energy in fighting this. I’m not too familiar with the legal proceedings in this matter, but I assume the outcome will not be in your favor. If at the end of the day after all of this advice. You decide to fight it. Good Luck</p>
<p>So are you all stating that I am not due the guaranteed admission simply because I was told by multiple counselors that I would get the degree and everything that comes with it even without the speech class by fulfilling the requirements with the UC IGETC?</p>
<p>My goal is simple, I want the CSU to admit me without the speech class, I know it’s meaningless but I want it, I don’t know why but I feel after 4 years in CC I deserve it.</p>
<p>So is anyone 100% sure I won’t get admitted? Because I’m calling the admin tomorrow and explaining the law and what counselors told me.</p>
<p>@Matt4200 the community is offering you advice but you’re not taking it. I’m telling you right now if you fight this and you lose. You will have to pay all those court and lawyer fees, Thousands of dollars. Not to mention the time away from school. This would for sure affect your grades. I don’t think you will receive the answer you want. The community wants to help you, but you’re saying to hell with what they’re saying I will do what I want. Also, good luck finding a lawyer (a good lawyer) that will take up your cause. </p>
<p>"(A) The Intersegmental General Education Transfer Curriculum
(IGETC) or the California State University General Education-Breadth
Requirements." </p>
<p>The law is vague regarding which IGETC pattern you need to complete. UC or CSU… but since it’s grouped with the CSU GE plan odds are they want the later. </p>
<p>@stanx89 - I actually already have a family lawyer who would take the case, because he thinks it would be good to set precedent, not many big cases have been won based on the CA ED code. </p>
<p>But he advised me to exhaust all administrative means prior to going to court, and ask a few different admins if they will override this error and comply.</p>
<p>@bomerr - Or because it is vague and there is no clear definition EITHER form of IGETC may be used. Isn’t that correct?</p>
<p>Yes it is, because I’ve asked many people who deal with the law and many people who deal with the certification of degree requirements and many people who deal with such articulation and they have come to this conclusion.</p>
<p>I only posted the denial on here because it was a Saturday and CSUCI was closed, and it’s clear that people don’t like it when people like me have the ability and/or knowledge to use loopholes in the legal and educational system while they do not possess the tenacity to do so.</p>
<p>Sorry for wasting your time I will re-post on here once a final decision in writing has been made by the CSU system.</p>