<p>@knhofto - If the CSU IGETC is the only one that exists to the CSU’s why is this on the CSUCI website??</p>
<p>“Inter-segmental General Education Transfer Curriculum (IGETC)
The IGETC is a series of courses that California Community College students can use to satisfy lower-division GE requirements for any CSU of UC campus.”</p>
<p>And FYI CSUCI admits nearly all the applicants that apply and the ones denied are not because of GPA they’re denied because of not meeting the Golden Four. I have 6 friends who got in as transfer applicants with GPA’s from 2.05 to 2.47.</p>
<p>So please save me the sob story about taking spots from students.</p>
<p>“it’s clear that people don’t like it when people like me have the ability and/or knowledge to use loopholes in the legal and educational system while they do not possess the tenacity to do so.”</p>
<p>I don’t like people that feel entitled to things they haven’t worked for. I also don’t like people who are overly self-righteous. And finally, I don’t like people who label themselves as better than others. </p>
<p>If you were a bit more humble and not so self-entitled, I would have a different perspective on the situation. I would feel differently if you were given bad information by your advisers and were approaching CSUCI with the hope that they will make an exception for you because you really want to attend their school. If this were your attitude, I would have no problem with you trying to use a loophole to get into CSUCI. It really bothers me that you want to force a college to admit you even though you have no intention of attending and that you do not care whose time you have to waste to get what you want. </p>
<p>You are not a 4.0 student, your GPA is barely above what most UC’s consider average. There is a very real possibility you might not get into a UC like you are hoping for. If that is the case, a CSU might be your only option. You should be very careful of the way you come across to whomever you speak with at CSUCI. You will be more likely to sway them with humility than with entitlement.</p>
<p>@knhofto - I apologize if you felt as if I was saying I was better than anyone else.</p>
<p>I do not believe myself to be better in any way, especially academically, to be quite blunt I’m horrible in school, sure I’m good in a few subjects but overall a lot of people are better than me academically speaking, monetarily speaking and are more progressed in their lives than I am.</p>
<p>That is why when I find something like this that I feel I am good at and can win at I cling to it and win in my small way, to offer me an admission at the CSU is a gesture of good faith that’s all I ever wanted was for them to say Yes you’re good enough to go here if you choose to, and because you worked your ass off and spent four years in CC and got this degree you can get in even without the communications course.</p>
<p>I’m sorry if I seemed self righteous I’m just feeling very anxious about waiting for the UC admissions decisions and financial aid packets because it’s a new page in my life. And even though I’m guaranteed admission at UCSB through a TAG I’m still nervous because at the moment I have no decision from anywhere except this one rejection which I thought because my counselors, and the law and at least 10 people who do this for a living told me so.</p>
<p>That’s all, and I’m sorry if I got off on the wrong foot.</p>
<p>The law may be vague, but if you look at IGETC application forms from CCs, you will see that they are intended to be completed after the student makes the matriculation decision, since the application for IGETC certification includes a space for the UC or CSU being transferred to. Presumably, the CC will certify IGETC or not as appropriate for the school being transferred to, which means that if the target school is a CSU, the CC may very well not certify IGETC for a student missing a CSU-specific IGETC requirement.</p>
<p>@UCBalumnus - My CC would certify the UC form of IGETC regardless because ultimately my transfer decision is to a UC.</p>
<p>I would post a link from my CC’s website but I’m on my phone and it’s coming up all jumbled when I click the link.</p>
<p>I’ve already filled out the form the counselor just said when the classes that are in progress are completed just come back in and turn it in for full IGETC certification.</p>
<p>Matt, I hate to burst your bubble but you did say you intend to be an attorney someday? And this is your practice for it, right? Using a loophole to intentionally force a non-preferred university to admit you is very presumptuous. </p>
<p>You could have finished that oral communication class by now. The online courses take 3 weeks.</p>
<p>My sister works for a powerful national firm. They get hundreds of resumes but they will only take referrals from partners and even these are screened thoroughly. They want team players who are knowledgeable of the law but don’t abuse it for their own schemes. </p>
<p>You come across as arrogant and self-righteous. There is a reason for the oral speech communication class, and, don’t you think a person who has to present himself in a courtroom someday will be required to take an oral communication class somewhere down the line? Maybe you are intimidated by the class because that speech class requires students to critique each speech. So, it is easier for you to avoid taking it and getting on your high horse, trying to bully someone into getting your “rights” accommodated at a CSU school. </p>
<p>So my original premise is that you are doing this debating to get a rise out of the kind people here on CC, and you intend to profit financially from your schemes because you really don’t intend to get an education anywhere-it’s too intimidating for you.</p>
<p>@aunt bea - If you read my above post I’ve already stepped down from my high horse.</p>
<p>If there was an online speech course offered at my college I would take it, but I have priority registration at my CCC and I have checked every semester since I realized I was getting the AA-T, it’s never been offered most likely because it’s a performance course.</p>
<p>In the criminal law portion of the legal field you must be humble as I hope that each day I can begin to humble myself a little more. I’m hoping to be able to intern for 6 months to a year in my Senior year for a respected lawyer in his own practice and from there take the LSATS.</p>
<p>Yeah maybe it’s a bad career choice with the economy the way it is but it’s what I’d love to do and if that means I’ll be in debt so be it, “love what you do, and you’ll never work a day in your life”.</p>
<p>If that’s your opinion then you are entitled to it as it is your 1st Amendment right. Just because I don’t plan on going to a CSU or taking a communications course doesn’t mean I don’t plan on going anywhere. </p>
<p>Again if you didn’t receive my above apology I am not better than any other applicants, I am just a college student trying to fit the many pieces of my life together maybe I come off as arrogant because I’m horrible in many areas academically but when it comes to the law it just feels as if it’s something I’m good at and for once, for one little time it feels like finally there’s one thing I might be able to win at.</p>
<p>The CSU’s and UC’s follow a similar but different IGETC program. Here is the IGETC requirement for english/communication. The CSU IGETC does REQUIRE one course in Oral Communication while the UC IGETC does NOT.</p>
<p>AREA 1: ENGLISH COMMUNICATION
UC-Must complete Group A and B. CSU- Must complete Group A, B, and C.</p>
<p>Group A: Group B:
English Composition : One course (3 semester units or 4-5 quarter units) English 1A
Critical Thinking : One course (3 semester units or 4-5 quarter units)
English 1C or Philosophy 5 or Psychology 3
(Note: Psychology 3 stands alone if taken Fall 92 or later. If English 1B was taken prior to Fall 93, it may be used in combination with Philosophy 8 or Psychology 3).</p>
<p>Group C:
Oral Communication (CSU transfers only) : One course (3 semester units or 4-5 quarter units) . Communication Studies (formerly Speech) 1, 3, 4, 12</p>
<p>@Elli64 - I know this, and this is the conundrum is that the law will allow someone to attain the AA-T without the Oral Communication course by certifying the UC IGETC, and once the degree has been earned the owner is guaranteed an admission to the CSU.</p>
<p>@Matt4200 “- I know this, and this is the conundrum is that the law will allow someone to attain the AA-T without the Oral Communication course by certifying the UC IGETC, and once the degree has been earned the owner is guaranteed an admission to the CSU.”</p>
<p>It doesn’t explicitly state that, that is your own interoperation of the law. </p>
<p>@knhofto - I spoke to the CSUCI rep that came to my CC campus yesterday and she said that if CC is granting me the AA-T and the CA Ed code says what it says they will honor it, I showed her a copy of the ED code with the IGETC portion and guaranteed admission portion highlighted.</p>
<p>She said just to contact the Assistant Director of Admission at CSUCI and let him know that I will be Certifying IGETC in an unusual way and that I will be granted the AA-T in May.</p>
<p>And I explained why I was UC certifying IGETC, because the UC’s are my primary choice and CSUCI is my backup school.</p>
<p>@bomerr - And it doesn’t explicitly say you must use the CSU version, which is why I’m being granted the degree.</p>
<p>@Matt4200 The legislature may not specifically say CSU, but once again it is implied. Not only that, but even if you have completed an IGETC, you still have to meet the minimum admission requirements. For CSUs, completion of the Golden Four IS one of the minimum admission requirements. This has been clarified here:</p>
<p>“The guarantee itself means that students who earn an AA-T or AS-T degree and meet the CSU minimum eligibility requirements are guaranteed admission to a CSU…”</p>
<p>“To qualify, the student must be conferred an approved Associate Degree for Transfer by a California Community College, apply for admission to California State University campuses for an open term by the published deadline, submit all requested transcripts and documents by published deadlines, meet CSU admission eligibility requirements for the program to which they have applied, and must comply with any other prescribed admission requirements.”</p>
<p>"What course selection advice should I give to students? Most students should complete all normal transfer
coursework in addition to the AA-T/AS-T major requirements. Specifically: </p>
<p> Minimum admission requirements: Students must meet all CSU admission requirements, including 60
CSU-transferable units, a 2.0 cumulative GPA, and the “golden four” (many CSU campuses require a
letter grade of “C” or better in each “golden four” course.)
General education (GE): Students must complete a full IGETC or CSU GE pattern. "</p>
<p>@knhofto - Those are informational websites, not written into law. Those are guidelines, not rules.</p>
<p>The educational code is the law and does have the final say.</p>
<p>I spoke to the Assistant Director of Admissions today at CSUCI and explained how I was getting the degree, and asked him to personally look through the educational code and he said he would and he would contact the records office, and contact me back tomorrow with the answer to if they will admit me or not with the AA-T.</p>
<p>If you were to go to court over this and lost, that would not result in an amendment or change in the law. It will merely result in a clarification and president. When you enter the field of law, you will learn very quickly that the law is not just what is written or the outcome of court decisions. The links that I posted are advisement tools used to clarify SB1440. They have been agreed upon by the ASCCC, as well as the Cal State Academic Senate. If you are admitted to a CSU, it will be through admission by exception. This means you are being granted an exception to the rules. It does not mean that every other student who doesn’t want to take an oral communication class will get in, too. </p>
<p>Okay so I spoke to the assistant director of a Admission today and he said that the current law does allow for them to admit me without the speech course and he will send out a letter of admission in the next week or so on the condition that once admitted I do complete the communications course prior to graduation, if I end up going there.</p>
<p>He also said he was submitting a letter to the state chancellors office and requesting that the chancellor request that the legislature be revised to IGETC for CSU, but until such time the Educational Code is the law and the campus will abide by it.</p>
<p>Good going Matt4200. While you might have come across as a little bit strong, I felt you were right and had an
excellent point and would prevail. Think this has been an excellent learning experience for you. When you feel (know) you are right, hold on to your position. Good Luck , not that you need it! </p>
<p>@Yenmor - Thanks! When you’re right you’re right, the rep said that this specific situation with my name may go down into law books as citing the reason for the necessary change in the legislature, maybe. Lol I don’t think so, but maybe.</p>