Depression, Alcohol, Drugs, Failing, HELP!!!!!

Parent Cafe
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<p>Our daugther is doing well considering where she was 3 months ago at least in the sense that she is clean. She moved out last week with a 41yr old “AA leader guy” I really don’t know what else to call him. His life seems to be 90% AA and 10% everything else… kudos to him for being so involved. He really is a fired up guy that has had a rough life he seems to be making a impact which is awesome!! They are looking for another roommate to lower the cost…right now it’s just them.</p>

<p>She is working 3 jobs 60+hrs a week and has been clean for 90 days now. We still provide the car, pay the insurance, and cell phone that’s about it. </p>

<p>She has a 29yr old boyfriend who is in a band, quasi works, is seperated not yet divorced, has a kid…oh and she met him in
AA :slight_smile: She met him the very first week we just didn’t know…:slight_smile: 12 steps has a unwritten 13th step NO NEW RELATIONSHIPS FOR 12 MONTHS…but that doesn’t apply to my daughter. She knows best>>>>>yes that is a cynical statement!</p>

<p>That’s it without writing a book… our relationship is done, finished, broken, splintered, and destroyed just as I thought it would be months ago. We don’t talk or txt more than 1 sentence a week…that is pushing it to be honest. My wife (her mom) talks to her more, but nothing very deep there really isn’t anything to talk about at least in my mind. Since we disagree (I especially) with everything she is doing that makes facetime hard because her life choices are like a itch that won’t go away. Her mom not wanting to abandon the relationship makes a effort I 100% do not!! I can’t say if that’s good or bad.</p>

<p>What I’ve learned through this experience is in the end certain types of people will do what they want when they want no matter what the consequences. Logic, reason, common sense are just foreign words when you are that self focused or better yet self consumed. Forward thinking be damned when I can focus on this nano second must cycle through her mind 24/7.</p>

<p>Everyone else is good we’ve been doing alot of fun things lately, many birthday parties, we redid the kids rooms, game nights, playing the WII, me and the oldest girls go walking/jogging cause they want to be ins shape, so everyone is very happy right now. </p>

<p>BUT…As you can easily sense in my words aggravation would be a term of endearment when describing my oldest at this point. She rewrites the rules constantly and only likes to follow what is convenient for her… add to that the little lies here and there and I’m done. Towel has been thrown in :slight_smile: I get zero enjoyment from seeing, talking, or being around her she infuriates me. It works best out of sight out of mind…and yes I know how horrible that sounds. She even made a comment two weeks ago right before V-day. It was clearly a intended pun yet flattering too “Dad, you were always such a awesome dad I couldn’t have asked for more. I have so many great memories of us hangin out and having fun. I’m glad you are still a great dad to the babies” insinuating the obvious that I’m not a great dad to her now…of course this was right before she lied straight to face the next week :slight_smile: so that ship has sailed for the time being at least.</p>

<p>There I go on a tangent again!! </p>

<p>Lastly my glimmer of hope is… a coworker has lived my daughters life just in reverse. Her and her sisters are 1.5 and 2.5 yrs apart…so 3 girls now 27, 25, 24 my coworker is the oldest at 27.</p>

<p>Her and the youngest have done fine both engineers, no major missteps, and made the highschool college transition without too much drama. While the middle sister has been in: therapy, depressed, lesbian, not a lesbian, not in therapy, ran away, drugs, alcohol you name it. Just now at 25 has started to go back to college.</p>

<p>So, that gives me hope that maybe my oldest is the anomoly and the rest will be more “normal” if that can be defined.</p>

<p>Best of luck to all!! Happy Sunday!!!</p>

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<p>Disclaimer: I have not read the entire thread, or even most of it.</p>

<p>ScaredDad: It strikes me that, all things considered, your daughter is in a much better place than she was 3 months ago. It will be a long road back for her, but being free of alcohol, drugs, and physically dangerous behaviors that she was engaging in 3 months ago is actually seems to me to be great progress. I also expect she is gaining some insights into her behavior patterns.</p>

<p>I expect you and she will get to a mutually acceptable place down the line. It will certainly be months, and more likely years before you get there, but I think you will. That will involve her self-actualization and your acceptance that she will never be what you want her to be and that that is OK with you. There will be a lot of mutual forgiveness that will need to occur. That will be very hard for you to do, even with counseling, and nearly impossible without.</p>

<p>For now, be glad that she is physically safe and on the road to mend, as zigzaggy as that may appear to you.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the update. Hang in there!</p>

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<p>Thanks for the update, and for sharing your story .</p>

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<p>OP- hugs. Sounds as though you are in as good a place as you can be.</p>

<p>I know you hate therapy… but give some thought to the younger kids. It’s ok to say “we’re all doing great without her; we’re having lots of fun” but they are scared and confused and they miss their older sister-- and they don’t have your insight into how long it could take her to be back in the family.</p>

<p>And you know what? If you were in therapy (which I realize you are not) your therapist would have earned his or her fee the day after V-day when you told the story of your D’s comment. YOU interpreted it as her taking a dig at you and that she’s insinuated something negative. Because you feel guilty that you’ve not been able to love her right now the way you used to. But that’s not actually what she said- she paid you a compliment, told you how much she cherishes the great memories she has of you as a dad when she was growing you. You have chosen to put a negative spin on what was a very sweet and loving comment from her. That’s YOUR issue, not hers. And (as your absent therapist might have told you) once you can stop looking for the evil subtext in every interaction with her, you might get yourself a little further along in the self-loathing and “thrown in the towel” department. There are parents whose children turn into axe murderers who still manage to stand by their child- surely you can start to accept the loving (if infrequent) tributes your daughter is paying you.</p>

<p>Best to all of you as walk this rocky path.</p>

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<p>Well said, Blossom. ScaredDad, I’m sorry that you can’t see and appreciate where you daughter is now–clean for 90 days, willing to work the 12 steps, agreeing to live with sober people, working 60 hours a week. I wish you had more respect for that. You disagree with everything she is doing? So you don’t want her to be clean and sober, you don’t want her to live with others who will support that path? You don’t want her to work for a living? Okay, you don’t approve of the boyfriend, I guess. That negates everything else? Please go to therapy yourself, for your own sake and your younger children. They learn from what they see you do.</p>

<p>By any objective measure, from what you’ve posted your daughter deserves some kudos and respect. Sure, she has a way to go, but don’t we all?</p>

<p>I remember feeling like you do in the sense that I didn’t really like our son anymore, and it seemed pointless to try to have a conversation. Now that he is recovered (though he will always have to pay attention to staying well), it’s completely different. Here is the text I received from my 22 year old son yesterday: I love you :=)</p>

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<p>ScaredDad, I’m sorry you can’t seem to appreciate all the steps your daughter has taken to get where she is today. i wish my son would go to AA, and he has had more (different) issues than your daughter. 'Tis true. AA is my hope for him one day, another is that he’d find a job, and the list goes on from there. He is also the oldest and it’s hard for his brothers, but for all he has gone through and all the times he has done bad things to himself, I have always loved him. I never, ever gave up. I wish you felt the same for your daughter.</p>

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<p>DH and I fret constantly about our teens, but sometimes I have to remind myself and him that he put his parents through Hades and we are lucky to have the least of our worries be “he spends a lot of time online” and she “wants too many new clothes”. ScaredDad, things could be far, far worse, as others have pointed out. If you can stomp that into your psych, then you can start to build a path back to your D. At the same time, you can never let her take control from your hands. At this point in your lives, she has to take the reins. You either get on for the ride or get out of the way.</p>

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<p>I hope this daughter can find a way to stay away from this man. Many people are being tactful here. </p>

<p>Going to AA, staying clean, and working 60 hours/week, are wonderful steps this early in recovery. She sounds brave and hard-working to me. </p>

<p>Even more importantly, her expressed emotions for father and for siblings show the beginnings of healing and reaching out, though the Dad rejects these signs.</p>

<p>Young adults tend to be confused, self-focused, and unable to see past the present, in general. If those were criteria for rejecting our kids, then none of us would be in touch.</p>

<p>Many parents on here have kids in trouble who are not doing as much for themselves as this daughter, and still love them. </p>

<p>I don’t know why I read this post. I am not going to look at this thread again.</p>

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<p>comp, you read this post because there is an entire virtual community out here who knows kids who have been lost and who are now found- and sometimes it’s too painful to connect with the people we know in real life who have or who are going through it, but it is enormously empowering to hear other people’s stories anyway. If you have a friend or cousin or neighbor who is where this dad was a few months ago- reading that the D is working, clean, in AA, making an effort to connect with her family- boy, that means a lot. I can look my friend in the eye and say, “Do not abandon him. He can get clean. He can take the first steps to being a healthy adult. He needs to know that although you can’t do it for him, you will be standing by him even on the days when he wishes he were still living in some cesspool getting high 23 hours a day.”</p>

<p>So that’s why you’re here. Hugs to everyone who is standing by with love and encouragement as someone wrestles their demons to the ground.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of the replies!! I do hear where you guys are coming from and you never know the more you reply the more my heart may change. My daughter has always been very complimentary Blossom always loving that has never been a problem for her. Everyone in the family is “lovy dovey” the wife and I cry at movies, cry looking at old pictures, even the younger girls are emotional, I’m as big of a teddy bear as they come, but there is a point when you put those emotions aside. For me that point is now…I love my daughter, but the incessant lies and refusal to take advice on so many fronts kills any joy I have when I think of her.</p>

<p>For her to pay me a compliment is no biggie it’s the lies and hiding that follow that make the compliment seem null and void. When you have been lied to repeatedly what is a normal persons reaction? You become??? Cynical! I went from being one of the most trusting supportive dads on the planet… to one who doesn’t take anything you say for face value, at least when it comes to her. I still trust everyone else probably too much. I assume there is always a ulterior motive always another side to the story that she is hiding. The sucky part the really sucky part is even when I start to think she is going to prove me wrong…another lie! </p>

<p>Back to her recovery one of ther root issues being I don’t truly believe there was a addiction or magic juju making her do these things. I will always believe each and every one of her actions was a choice…words like disease… almost as if it’s a scape goat need not apply. Remember all of this happened in 6 weeks and 4 days!</p>

<p>I am not hostile, mean, or ill spirited… I can post the “I love you too” txts that we have both sent to each other. Little I love you’s here and there do not a relationship make! She is still lieing, still hiding information, her 60hrs a week have become 35 since she lost a job for oversleeping two times during probation.</p>

<p>Her mom asked her how she was doing right after I posted the last update and she said fine. “How are the finances?” her reply “fine!!” Come to find out she did not have rent, she did not have money for the electric bill, she instead spent it on clothes and going out to eat with her boyfriend who again is 29 separated with child and now jobless too…so guess who paid? Got money for cigarettes though!!</p>

<p>How do we know this? The AA roomate who lives with my daughter called us asking for help. This is her 1 and only get out of jail free card <em>we’ll forget all of the others</em> and the wife and I spent alot of time going back and forth on this issue on what precedent is being set. Is this just more of the parents bailing her out again? We erred on the side of mercy and love and decided one more time… this is it though. </p>

<p>She came over 4 days ago and we talked about budgeting made a plan based on her working 35hrs and it ended with a “I know I know I messed up I know what I did wrong you guys don’t need to do this I can add…” “I mean thx really thx but I know what I’m doing” It is hard to hear her still hold onto the doing it my way MO after so many stumbles and falls.</p>

<p>On the money issue we will wait and see if she can manage to save 55% of her pay and do what she should with it or blow it again!!</p>

<p>The latest shocker is her 29yr old boyfriend broke up with her on Friday. She called <em>me first</em> because I’m so mean to her :slight_smile: We talked for about 10 minutes I just listened as she cried asked her if she wanted to come home and be with the family…she said no she was at her BFF’s house. Her mom got on the phone too and said she was sorry they talked for a bit.</p>

<p>The honest truth is I told her repeatedly in (Jan) not to get seriously involved, don’t do it, he’s a player, he’s married, you have nothing in common in the sense there is a 10 yr age gap, you know how guys think, and to put it bluntly his focus was “Hit it and quit it”, he’s a 29yr old practically unemployed alcoholic musician come on baby from all the fish in the sea! Obviously emotions won out over logic again…</p>

<p>We have txted this weekend just little txts “Hope your okay”, “Wanna go out to eat with tonight”, so far we have gotten nothing in return…but she may be at work. </p>

<p>Best of luck to all of you guys!! Even the ones that think I’m a heartless hard ass :-)</p>

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<p>I really feel for all of you. This young adulthood thing can be very scary since there are many nasty paths our beloved kids can take despite all of our guidance to stay safe. It’s a heartbreaker when our children do things that we don’t tolerate and they know it. Whether it is illegal activities, bad life style choices, doing nothing, bad company, it hurts to watch our children go through this gauntlet. </p>

<p>As many have advised, I think you and your wife should look for a good family therapist for yourselves. If that is not in the budget, Al-Anon is the best free group therapy for those of us who are hurting from another family member’s poor choices. </p>

<p>The solution is not swift, and may never really come, but the idea is for you to stay on track and live out your lives and raise the rest of your family in as healthy of a way as possible. Learning to deal with your wayward D is also a skill that you need to relearn to make it less toxic for all involved. It’ll always hurt, but you try to make it less harmful, even when it is more painful to endure.</p>

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<p>ScaredDad, my family has been there & done that. I understand your comments about not being able to trust. My brother lied, stole, whatever it took to get what he wanted. He hit rock bottom before recovering for a period of many years. We never fully trusted him again, though, and we were not completely surprised (although we were certainly saddened) when he relapsed later in life. </p>

<p>I second the need for some type of support system/group. My parents could never have survived without the help of Families Anonymous. There are many such groups … contact your local human services agency, crisis center, or the like for referrals. If one doesn’t work for you, try another. </p>

<p>My thoughts & prayers are with you and your family.</p>

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<p>OP, thanks for the update.</p>

<p>You have your side of the BF story- i.e. emotions won out over logic and she hooked up with a bum who treated her poorly and left her. But that’s why I don’t believe she went from being model citizen to addict in 6 weeks and 4 day. First she slept with best friend’s boyfriend. Then she was raped. Now she’s gotten dumped by the world’s worst choice of a BF. Those are the ones you know about.</p>

<p>I see a pattern of a young woman who acts out sexually and makes very poor choices when it comes to men. Oh- and was raped, but nobody in her life wants to take a sexual assault very seriously when they can still get agitated that she smokes and has money for cigarettes but not her rent.</p>

<p>Your D is working hard to overcome some very deep seated feelings and behavioral patterns, an addiction (maybe more than one) and a family dynamic which suggests that all is love and sweet and crying at movies with a lot of turmoil (unverbalized) underneath. If she grew up believing that the only time tears are appropriate are when Bambi’s mom dies or when watching a mushy hallmark commercial-- but that negative feelings or hard issues are to be swept under the rug, she may be finding her recovery 10X harder than someone raised in a home with a lot of shouting and anger. (I bet you never shouted at her when she was young.)</p>

<p>So hugs to you. You are being very brave just by standing by her, but go get a trained outsider’s perspective on your family dynamic before you watch one of the younger “babies” (and they aren’t really babies are they?) start acting out as well. This is a hard situation on the younger siblings, who don’t understand why their relationship with her has changed.</p>

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<p>scareddad–</p>

<p>Just as a practical aside, and response to your post, the part in which you say you believe everything she did was a choice and that addiction is not a disease, I would recommend you do some reading on the latest brain research into addiction and the brain. Alcoholics and addicts don’t metabolize drugs in the same way that normal people do. This shows up in brain response, which has been proven repeatedly, and can be seen through the research. (if that helps.) </p>

<p>Diabetes is the best type of disease to compare it to, as it is a metabolic disorder…</p>

<p>As for all of the rest of it, I hope your daughter is able to stay in recovery. It’s a difficult path in the beginning, and sometimes later, but it is better than the alternatives you and your wife face if she does not.</p>

<p>Good luck to you all.</p>

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<p>I cannot believe I read this entire sad thread!</p>

<p>Hasn’t it crossed anyone’s mind here that the problem is: “OverControlling&JudgementalDad”?</p>

<p>Part 1: The kid lives with this holly roller for 18 years,</p>

<p>Part 2: She steps out of the mold (as is expected) to see what is on the other side,</p>

<p>Part 3: Having sinned, she feels like she will surely go to hell now . . . so what the hell . . .,</p>

<p>Part 4: She spends time in rehab and then lovingly bonds with her fellow admits,</p>

<p>Part 5: She goes home to where the “judgments” all began,</p>

<p>Part 6: She leaves home to be with an older man.</p>

<p>Is it just me or did many of these posts serve only to enable the OP?</p>

<p>What the kid needs is a vacation away from this bible thumper!</p>

<p>Compmom put it more politically correct, of course.</p>

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<p>“What the kid needs is a vacation away from this bible thumper!” - That’s not how I read it. </p>

<p>It’s likely that nobody (not even OP or his D or their profressional helpers) really understand the whole situation. And certainly we CC readers don’t. My heart really goes out to this family… it sounds like the parents are trying as best they can to sort through an incrediblky difficult situation. </p>

<p>ScaredDad - I know that your D’s lies can be incredibly hurtful. A lot of them are probably her being elfishness and manipulative, But some of them may be an attempt to not further worry/aggravate the parents she has disappointed many times …but still loves. She has burned many bridges - your challenge will be to judge which ones are repairable. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Bible thumper…wow…just wow! Do I have standards of course, but holy roller fire and brimstone I think you misread something somewhere or are interjecting your own experiences.</p>

<p>Well versed skeptic looking for answers maybe Bible thumper…hardly!! Thanks for the replies btw.</p>

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<p>Would love an update ScaredDad. I hope all is going well.</p>

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<p>One of the things that echos in my mind from this forum is to love the kids you got, not the one you wanted. That doesn’t mean we like what they do, the choices they make. Sadly, they may do bad things, make wrong choices and plain out not be the way your raised them and expected them to be. Some of those things are their problems that they will have to deal with their whole lives. Some of it will be your own problem in terms of understanding that just because you don’t like it or want for your child doesn’t amount to a whole lot in life. It is their lives. </p>

<p>I hope things are calming down and that you reach an equilibrium.</p>