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<p>Bahahahaha!</p>
<p>To the OP: you did the right thing. It sounds like the email will generate some ongoing conversation. </p>
<p>I feel the same way, that I expect my children to be productive, whether volunteering or working. Somehow that is not the normal expectation these days, however. Both of my children see their friends getting cars, ability to stay at home without any cost, etc, without being expected to have a job or contribute in any way. Some are even only taking one course at a community college without a job, etc.</p>
<p>What is different is that I couldn’t wait to be independent when I was a teenager/college student. Going home to live during the summer felt like going backward. Other than a short stay one summer, I never went home again after my freshman year. It was important to me to establish both my personal and financial independence. I even left school during soph and jr years so I could work full-time and become financially independent.</p>
<p>I think the OP did everything right except one thing…I personally would have left out the reference to $ except perhaps to say that if he doesn’t have enough money for expenses plus the trip to Europe it’s not going to happen unless he figures out how to pay for it. But I wouldn’t have said kid has to pay folks rent for the summer. </p>
<p>I say that in part because I suspect the OP would be quite satisfied if her son got an unpaid internship related to his field that might be a good stepping stone. So, if it’s not about $ don’t make it about $. If son views himself as “wronged,” that’s the part he’ll focus on. “I know they don’t need the money–they are just trying to ruin my life/ control everything I do,” etc. </p>
<p>I had a somewhat similar argument with my kid–though my kid did have a 40 hour a week job after freshman year. That job was arranged by dad. Sophomore year I wanted kid to look for a job, especially since all I heard all the previous summer was how “boring” that job was. Fine, get a better one–but it isn’t going to fall in your lap.We had a rather ugly argument about it during Christmas vacation sophomore year. I INSISTED kid go to career office right after getting back to school. Of course, that would be “a waste of time” because “it only has internships for juniors and seniors.” I insisted. It got ugly, but in a huff, kid went to the career office the day after returning to school.</p>
<p>After plowing through all the summer internships in the career center, kid identified 10 of interest. One had a deadline of January 10–only a few days away. Kid ran around getting the transcript, a letter of rec from a professor, etc. and got it in. Of course, the kid also said it was a waste of time to apply because kid would never get the job. Still, kid applied to the 10 internships because I insisted. </p>
<p>Guess which one of the 10 internships applied for was the only one that kid was offered? </p>
<p>So, yes, light the fire now because some summer internships do have very early deadlines. We didn’t have the argument the following year.</p>
<p>I find this fascinating because I just came back from a seminar on Compensation and Incentives where I spent two days listening to speakers discuss how human beings respond to the incentives put in front of them-- which is not necessarily what the people who set up incentive systems are thinking about. If you reward perfect attendance (i.e. in grade school or in some minimum wage jobs) you end up with people showing up with flu, other contagious diseases. Which then infects everyone else and your absentee rate skyrockets. </p>
<p>I would think long and hard about imposing rent on a kid during the summer. He then gets to compare the deal you’re offering to any others that might be out there- living with his girlfriend who he’s known for all of ten minutes, crashing with a group of guys on the couch, joining the circus… you catch my drift. </p>
<p>I think if you’re trying to teach responsibility and caring about his future, you need to set up the incentive system to focus on that. But once you’ve told him that living with you costs $200 a week he’s free to find a less costly arrangement which may aggravate or upset you even more than having to subsidize his use of the shower or electricity.</p>
<p>I doubt it is about the cost of the water or electricity.</p>
<p>I also think the OP did the right thing.</p>
<p>One big Pet peeve I have is all of the parents letting college grads live at home rent free. In some cases it warranted, but in many see it’s not. One young man, a year and a half out of college and working 20ish hours per week recently discussed his quandary with me- he could keep living rent free with his mom and take a vacation every couple of months or he could get an apartment. This was seriously a hard choice for him.</p>
<p>If the mom doesn’t make him grow up he won’t any time soon.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone. I agree – I did misstep on the rent stipulation. I’m going to retract that with him. And maybe my full-time job requirement is unrealistic too but if he does decide to come home I think I’ll say he either needs to supplement a 20-hr a week job with some other smaller jobs, take a class, or do some heavy-duty volunteering. I just think he needs to start getting serious about his life. </p>
<p>We’re not well off but he’s always had it pretty good. Never has hurt for anything. When I was in college I skrimped and scraped for everything! But it taught me a lot. I want him to learn those lessons and appreciate the value of a dollar and hard work.</p>
<p>*'m surprised by the assumption that college-aged students are still entitled to a degree of leisure unheard of in the adult world, that they need to “chill” in the summer. The privilege of a lazy summer, in my mind, is limited to children without responsibilities. </p>
<p>College life is frankly not all that stressful compared to adult working life. I don’t think that college kids need to have tons of downtime in the summer.*</p>
<p>True…and I think it sets up an unrealistic attitude about adult life. One of my good friends recently had a disagreement with her D (a HS senior). The D was insisting that this summer she was just going to “take it easy” as some kind of reward for high school (and she’s been a good, but not standout student). “Taking it easy” would consist of hanging out with friends, staying up late and sleeping til past noon every day. My friend had to set her D straight about her lazy intentions…that she’ll be working, volunteering, or doing a paid internship thru a connection. </p>
<p>Adults rarely have a 3 month break. Heck, many adults have to use their vacation time to fix things around the house or take care of sick kids/relatives.</p>
<p>cbug, I think you are on the right track. I agree that for a college student (not a college grad!) asking for rent just seems punitive, but I don’t think it’s wrong to expect a kid to be productive (not necessarily paid) for 40 hours a week most of the summer. </p>
<p>We wrestle with these issues to. My son spent the first six weeks of last summer studying Arabic intensively which meant that he spent the last few weeks doing nothing. I felt he should be doing something more constructive, but it seemed like a lot of trouble to figure out what it should be especially given that he returned mid-August. Best to get the expectations on the table now. My son has already started applying to internships for next summer and I know he doesn’t want to spend it at home either in a job that he doesn’t like or something non-career related, so I am hopeful that it will turn out okay next summer, but we’ll see!</p>
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<p>true, but I do think some push their young adults a bit too much. A 19-20 year old has 45+ years to be an adult and work 40+ hours a week. I don’t see the need for a full time 40 hour week during the summer unless they need the extra cash or want to do it.</p>
<p>Like I stated before, what’s the rush?</p>
<p>geeps, don’t consider it a rush, consider it “endurance conditioning”.</p>
<p>Because the longer you wait, the harder it is to yoke yourself to the plow. A friend of mine who never forced her kids to work while in school tells me she regrets it because her children are now in their early twenties and have never had to pound the pavement or knock on doors for work. It’s terrifying to start doing it when your peers have been doing it for years.</p>
<p>And with college costing what it does, why shouldn’t a 19-year-old adult be making as much money as possible to defray the cost? Why should it fall on the parents to provide fun and lifestyle amenities for their adult children, when they are already paying tuition, room and board? As a parent, I am proud and happy to pay for my child’s education, but I would resent living like a beast of burden and foregoing even small luxuries to pay off college costs while my 19-year-old sleeps till noon all summer long. Perhaps I am just selfish, but I think that’s the way to raise a selfish young adult.</p>
<p>If a 19 or 20 year old was working 20 waking hours a week, what would they do with the other 70or so waking hours?</p>
<p>The personality of the kid should be what’s driving whether to institute some of these tactics or not. If S1 was already a highly driven, self-motivated individual I wouldn’t be worrying about this at all. But the fact is he seems to be lacking in motivation right now. So the threat of rent and a full-time job (right or wrong) was a scare tactic to try and spur some action on his part.</p>
<p>I agree with NJSue - the longer your child waits to start searching for work, the harder it becomes. The first time, my son was so shy and awkward about job hunting that I had to drive him to job sites to pick up applications. That was when he was 16, when kids are still open to parental hand-holding and ultimatums. But you can’t “help” a 22 year old look for a job in the same way. By that point they are adults who didn’t learn a vital life-skill when they should have, and it’s not entirely their fault.</p>
<p>I hear what you’re saying about the personality. You’d like to see him evidence some initiatve, fire-in-the-belly, passion – for something, anything. Some people are more inspired by what they see and experience in groups of people, as compared to kickstarting their own ambitious and individuated plan.</p>
<p>If 20 hours per week is sufficient $ earnings, then he’s got a great summer opportunity to volunteer for just about anything in your community. It could be several things put together, for example: night work at something intriguing and fun (radio station, student film or community play backstage) 1-2 days per week in an institutional setting with serious intent (library program, center for children with serious disabilities, small museum), and several weekends participating in the organization of some charity run or fundraising event that brings out hundreds of people on one day. If he has any curiosity about politics, this is the summer before an election so there’s bound to be some local activity in that arena. All these things bring him around adults in groups who are committed to something. Or, if he’s never had a chance to try a musical instrument, it’s never too late to begin that. What a great chance for some variety of stimuli. It could give him a feeling for other life-forms than just studying, working wages and unwinding.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure that the skills gained through the experience of looking for summer jobs are transferable to the later experience of looking for full-time work.</p>
<p>When applying for summer jobs, such as those in stores or restaurants, young people almost always do it in person. The first impression they make in this in-person situation is crucial.</p>
<p>But when applying for full-time jobs, they are likely to do most of their applying through the on-campus recruiting system, with maybe some additional applications through online job boards. In these instances, the first steps in the process are performed online. They do not talk with a real human being until they interview – if they get an interview. What is crucial in this situation is looking good on paper: having the right qualifications and having a resume and cover letter that look good and show how the applicant matches what the employer is looking for. </p>
<p>The two situations call for very different skill sets.</p>
<p>Marion, I would disagree with you. We had our 2 D’s look for and obtain summer jobs once they turned 15. It was extremely difficult for them to talk to adults and sell themselves - the first few times. It became easier and more natural the more they did it.</p>
<p>D1 is now enrolled in College of Business at her university. The college requires 4 zero credit classes on top of business core and discipline requirements. What are the skill they are teaching in these non-credit classes? Professional presentation of yourself in writing, on the internet and in person. They are required to prepare and present elevator speeches, video resumes, letters of introduction, they prepare and present presentations to faculty groups (more intimidating, she assures me), must model appropriate dress, etiquette and manners, etc.</p>
<p>D is very comfortable doing these things because she already did them during high school as part of her job search. She learned a lot about people, dealing with difficult personalities, presenting herself in a professional way, knowing and following work rules, taking constructive criticism given in performance reviews, being on time, being prepared, etc. - all because we made her put herself out there and look for and obtain a job each summer. </p>
<p>D2 is 15, with one summer of work under her belt. She has had the same experiences in the workplace her sister did, plus she has already made contacts that will help her get shadowing opportunities with physicians in various disciplines. Several notable local businessmen and physicians have already offered to write letters of recommendation for her for college applications - and to put in a good word for her at their alma maters. </p>
<p>You can’t tell me that the experience of looking for a summer job doesn’t help prepare them for the job search after college.</p>
<p>Good interview skill is important whether one is looking for a real professional job or summer job. For a professional job, it is important to have a good CV, but at the end of day it is still meeting someone in person. If someone is shy or not comfortable with meeting strangers, it is a good practice to interview for jobs early on. I do think those skills are transferrable.</p>
<p>OK, you’ve convinced me that I’m wrong about the skills not being transferable.</p>