Difficult Decision: Withdrawing Child From School

Parents Forum
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<p>I disagree
saying someone with compulsive or addictive behaviors just needs internal motivation is like saying someone with a broken leg just needs to walk on it.
[Tech</a> Addicts Need Textual Healing](<a href=“http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/10/60936?currentPage=all]Tech”>http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/10/60936?currentPage=all)</p>

<p>difficulties relating to attention or processing makes prioritizing tasks virtually impossible without help- either from medication- from cognitive therapy or just a day planner and a nagging wife for some.</p>

<p>It’s not a value judgement- it is a brain difference.</p>

62

<p>Don’t disagree with that, at all. However, if an adult needs help with something and the help has been offered and refused, then the adult needs more consequences in order to SEEK out the help he or she needs. Nobody can force anyone to change. They have to want it. I have a D with a serious LD, but she wanted it and worked fifty billion times harder than I’ve ever seen anyone work. But it didn’t come from me. I offered her every opportunity and all sorts of stuff and she took advantage of every opportunity she was given. I also worked in the addiction field for years and can say with great certainty that no addict ever does the work they need to do to change (it is HARD work!) until they are ready. Wish it were different. All that said, it may well be that OPs daughter just doesn’t care about school and would be better off going to work, many people have taken this route to tremendous success.</p>

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<p>Maybe the student just doesn’t care about school. But maybe she does care, and doesn’t know how to fix her out-of-control texting and phoning. If so, maybe giving her a way to think about her compulsions, and offering help in overcoming them, would help her learn to succeed in school.</p>

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<p>Completely agree with you Cardinal Fang. Like I said, if the help has been offered and refused…If the help has not been offered, who can know? OTOH, school is not for everyone, and it isn’t a “bad” thing if it isn’t. I see, though, why a mother with children in the Ivies, who obviously values education highly, as do all of use here, I assume, would find this the type of situation to bite her fingernails over. I know I would! But, it still wouldn’t change anything.</p>

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<p>I think many of you are focusing on the texting and calls and missing the point that this is what my daughter has chosen to do instead of doing her work. I am familar with addictions and my daughter is not addicted she is just not taking care of her responsibilities with school. By the way I don’t know if I mentioned how much she loves the school she was attending. She is very upset that we are not allowing her to continue until she proves that she is ready to do well in school.</p>

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<p>Is she “in love” with her major? The fact that she is not on academic probation but did not get a 3.0 for her “major” might be something to focus on. The fact that she is upset she is not going back is a good sign. She holds the keys in her hands so to speak. Is she trying to push a rock uphill in terms of major? Does she “want” to push the rock up the hill? – But that IS alot of texting, phone calling, messaging etc. :-)</p>

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<p>If someone said their daughter smoked 100 joints a day but wasn’t addicted, she just didn’t feel like doing well in school, no one would believe it.</p>

<p>I’m not saying you’re wrong; I don’t know your daughter. But that is one hell of a lot of text messages.</p>

<p>Anyway, I’ll chime in with my opinion about your real question: Withdraw her from school. You shouldn’t be paying for her to goof off. She can do that at the local community college for a lot less money. As for the root cause of the problem, be it immaturity, addiction, repressed psychological trauma, or whatever, good luck figuring it out.</p>

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<p>To the original poster, I am sorry that your daughter has faced so many difficulties in her first year – didn’t she also break up with her long term boyfriend right before or shortly after heading off to college? It must have been tough for her, as something like that can really toss a kid on their heads, and make them feel somewhat adrift socially.</p>

<p>I respect your decision to not pay for her to continue at her current college, but I am curious about something. You mention that she didn’t achieve the 3.0 minimum needed to continue in a particular major, but didn’t specify just how low her grades really were. Is she getting D’s and F’s? Is she on academic probation at her college? Or did she just not make the cut for this particular major by getting a few C’s?</p>

<p>The reason I am asking is that perhaps part of the problem is that the major in question just isn’t a good fit for her, and her grades might improve if she switched to a major that was a better fit for her. </p>

<p>Let me share my daughter’s experience. My daughter started out as a freshman intending to major in a particular area that was definitely NOT a good fit for her. She ended the year with some very low grades in courses in that major. Running to keep up with the courses in her major also affected her grades in her other courses as well. </p>

<p>Over the summer, we encouraged her to think about whether she wanted to continue with that major, or if she might be better suited to a different major more suited to her particular talents and academic strengths. We had her get in touch with one of her professors in the department that was her original major, and discuss options with him. He gently but firmly broke the news to her that she probably wasn’t cut out for her intended major. After that, she talked with one of her professors in another department, where she had enjoyed the courses, and done well, but which she hadn’t considered as a major. He suggested she take a course or two in that subject at a community college over the summer in order to see what more advanced courses would be like in that subject, which she did. That fall, she returned to college with a new plan – totally unrelated to her original intended major.</p>

<p>It really was a turning point for her in many ways. Now that she was majoring in something that was a GREAT fit for her talents, strengths and personality, she received a tremendous amount of support and encouragement from the new department. Her grades in her new major were excellent, and so did her other grades as well. It really was the best decision she could have made for herself, and we would have been doing her a disservice if we (or she herself) had insisted she stay in the original major that was not a good fit for her.</p>

<p>Interestingly, as her grades spiraled downwards in freshman year, she did begin socializing more than was “normal” for her. But, once she regained her footing with a new major, she also seemed to regain her footing in that regard as well. Looking back, I don’t think that was a coincidence - we all look for ways to make ourselves feel better, especially when we feel we are failing or not doing well in some area of our lives.</p>

<p>It is unclear to me from your original post whether your daughter’s situation might be similar, but if there is any possibility that part of the issue with her grades is NOT because of too much socializing alone but also because of trying to cram herself into the wrong major, that you might want to explore other options besides immediately pulling her out of college. If your goal in having her stop out and take courses at community college is to get her back INTO a major that maybe isn’t a good fit, it may not be lead to the results you hope for. Regardless of whether she goes to community college or back to her four year school, you might want to encourage her to think about whether this major is the right one for her, and perhaps talk with some of her professors (at either school) about other majors and career options that might be a better fit. Of course, if your daughter is on academic probation, or her school has requested that she take leave until she bring up her grades, this may not be an option at all.</p>

<p>Obviously, you know your daughter better than strangers on an internet discussion forum do, but, unless her college has totally kicked her out, I would suggest that you also look at the big picture and consider all options, and especially I’d encourage your daughter (in a positive way) to do the same. As others have noted, ultimately, the choice will be hers, regardless of whether or not you pay for her continued education. Again, I certainly respect your decision as it stands now, and I could be off base since I don’t have the full story from your daughter’s point of view, but I just thought I’d suggest a different possibility in case it might be helpful.</p>

<p>Good luck to your daughter!</p>

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<p>I agree with Carolyn. I have a similar story. I was a strong student in high school and really enjoyed Chemistry. Really didn’t know what I wanted to do, as so many at that age don’t, but I majored in Chemical Engineering because it made sense to me since I was strong in science and math. Because I tested out of courses and didn’t receive much guidance on choosing classes, I found myself as a freshman in classes with upperclassmen. I didn’t realize until my grades tanked that I was in way over my head. My dad sat me down over Christmas break and proposed that I either sit out a semester and work or change my major to something I might enjoy more. I changed to Business and went on to get my MBA.</p>

<p>Same thing has happened with a few of D’s friends. Struggling in majors not right for them; unhappy, leading to more socializing or wasting of time. Change of major made all the difference to success and much happier.</p>

<p>It’s definitely something to consider.</p>

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<p>Momma-three,
I want to thank you so much for posting this topic. My husband and I are painfully, slowly coming to the grips with the fact that our daughter may not be disciplined to handle college-level academics. She routinely says she dislikes school work, her junior PSAT scores were actually worse than her sophomore PSATs and she frequently fails to turn in work or prepare for tests and quizzes. She is bright enough but her only passion in life is to hang out with her friends. Imagine what would happen if she went to college! She would have a jolly time and flunk every class.</p>

<p>When we broach the topic of delaying college or considering a vocational program at a CC, she immediately gets defensive and says she wants to go. Of course she wants to go! The parties, new friends, the freedom! The trouble is we have enough funds for 4 years for her and that is it. If she is unable to qualify for a major because of poor grades and has to drop out or retake classes, that money is gone!</p>

<p>So this is the start of a very painful uncertain summer for us. We await her final junior grades, her SATS and her AP scores. If she does poorly, my husband and I will have to tell her that we will not fund a 4 year school immediately after graduation. She will have to attend community college and prove to us that she is mature enough to handle college classes. Sigh! Now that is a conversation I am dreading.</p>

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<p>“he routinely says she dislikes school work, her junior PSAT scores were actually worse than her sophomore PSATs and she frequently fails to turn in work or prepare for tests and quizzes. She is bright enough but her only passion in life is to hang out with her friends. Imagine what would happen if she went to college! She would have a jolly time and flunk every class.”</p>

<p>The AP and SAT scores aren’t as important as is the fact that she doesn’t like school, and frequently doesn’t turn in her homework or prepare for tests. My two sons did wonderfully on the SAT. Both even studied for it (The fact that I offered a monetary award for high scores did serve as an incentive).</p>

<p>Both insisted they wanted to go straight to college after high school, and said they didn’t want gap years or other alternatives. Older S flunked out after freshman year with an average of below .38 (You read that correctly). Younger S took a gap year after not getting it together to get college apps in (I learned my lesson with older S, so didn’t offer any help with apps though I had taken both kids around to see colleges) and then spent a year in college – on his own dime and with some loans (H and I cosigned) and merit aid. He has done wonderfully in college. </p>

<p>My advice is to cut the cord now. Do not help her with college apps. Certainly help her see colleges and let her know what the application process is, but don’t hold her hands or push her to get the apps in. Don’t helicopter to make sure she turns in school work. Let her know that if her grades are awful (be specific about what “awful” means) or she doesn’t apply to college, if she chooses to live at home, she’ll have to work and pay rent and follow the house rules or move out and support herself.</p>

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<p>I have observed that for those predisposed to addiction, a comparatively high level of anxiety pushes them towards substances and behaviors that relieve the anxiety - at least momentarily. ( even if it makes it worse in the long run)</p>

<p>Someone that is totally focused on short term goals ( texting- partying- ignoring responsibilties and long term goals), and is a capable adult- has deeper concerns than losing their fake ID.</p>

<p>It might just be developing their attention span, so they can get through the hard/boring parts, or it might be medical tests to determine if anxiety or depression is the cause.</p>

<p>Both my kids took a year off before college & my oldest, although very capable and pretty focused considering, took a year off after junior year, when she needed to retake a class required for her major ( Ochem).</p>

<p>I know that most of the students mentioned ( probably) don’t have learning issues, however- very bright students may not have learning concerns come to light until high school or even college. My daughter was able to do very well in high school and it was pretty challenging, however- her college was so much more so, that she basically * hit the wall* and even though she had, had support, she needed to step back and regroup.
( she did however return to her college and graduated in her major the next year)</p>

<p>arrgh- this article almost makes me want to go cold turkey-
but not quite
:o
[The</a> Incurable Disease: Society’s Addiction to Technology - Wiki.ucalgary.ca](<a href="http://wiki.ucalgary.ca/page/The_Incurable_Disease:_Society’s_Addiction_to_Technology]The"&gt;http://wiki.ucalgary.ca/page/The_Incurable_Disease:_Society’s_Addiction_to_Technology)</p>

73

<p>I hear often on this board about tough love after high school or college, and some how that’s going to shape up those “non-performing” (lack of better word) kids. If there isn’t anything wrong with them (learning disability or anxiety…), then tough love should have been applied since they were toddlers. It would have gradually taught them how to be reponsible and independent. If they haven’t learned by the time they were 18, not sure if going cold turkey on them(get a job, pay rent, pay for your own school) is also the best approach. </p>

<p>You need to look at your own kid and figure out as to why they have no self control and lack focus, then find appropriate help for your kid. One size can’t fit all. What works for one family may not always be right for another. I for one, wouldn’t have waited until high school to try to deal with it. When a small tree is growing it is easier to shape it to help it grow straight then to wait until its’ full grown to try to bend it.</p>

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<p>Update Here: </p>

<p>My daughter has been taking a summer class at the local CC this summer and has been studying everyday. She appears to understand the subject matter but is not able to get above a 70 on any exam she has taken. She has received tutoring so it is not that she is not seeking help. Texting and computer use is at a bare minimum and she barely leaves the house. It is heartbreaking to see this and we do not know what to do. She wants to go back to her former university in the spring semester more than anything and she knows that her grades at the CC will determine the possibility of that happening.</p>

<p>Oldfort- She is a good kid that has some kind of problem that we can not figure out. It was a weird year with another issue that made no sense at all. The break-up with the two year long boyfriend came out of the blue and she has never mentioned his name again. He was an exceptional young man (read the post on that for insight) None of this is making sense and I now know that there is something very wrong.</p>

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<p>You know she is trying, and it’s probably not texting or partying. In your daughter’s case, not sure if tough love would be the best approach. She probably needs your help to sort this out. She may need to get checked out. She is lucky to have parents that care. Hang in there.</p>

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<p>There are many courses out there where 70s are average, 80s are hard to get and 90s are rare. Sometimes the professor expects you to go outside the course and keep up with current events in the field to get an A.</p>

<p>In this particular case, I’d go over her exams carefully on the problems that she missed to figure out why she missed them. Sometimes it’s prereqs, sometimes a simple vision problem and sometimes the professor gives very difficult exams. Perhaps some time asking the professor about the problems that she got wrong would help.</p>

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<p>You said earlier that you didn’t think she was ready to go to college. I assumed that you felt she was not emotionally ready…but how did she do academically in high school? How did she test out on the standardized tests? It might help to see if there has been a significant change academically that has occured. It’s possible that she has been and might always be a B/C “college” student. The texting/extracurricular activity/boyfriend breakup, etc. could certainly be contributing, but if she’s buckled down, studying and still not achieving academically now at home with you perhaps she is working at level and there is not much more you can do and she just needs to have realistic goals/majors, etc.</p>

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<p>What is the course? Are these essay exams, multiple-choice, or short-answer? Is she able to finish the exams in the time allotted? Has she been able to look at previous exams for practice? Is she studying with other students in a study group? How is she doing on the homeworks for the class, if there are any? What does the professor advise, if she has gone to see the professor? Are you actually sure that she is attending all the classes? How much time is she devoting to studying for the class (should be at least 15 hours per week, not including class time)? If the class is a math or physics class, is she asking the professor for extra practice problems?</p>

<p>She might need to be tested for a learning disability, but she and you should figure out exactly what’s going on in the class first.</p>

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<p>Daughter is enrolled in a math course and son has devoted about 5 hours each week helping her. It is not an extremely difficult course and with practice she should have been able to perform well. She attends every class and has contacted the professor by e-mail today requesting a meeting during office hour.</p>

<p>My husband feels that college is not a suitable choice for our daughter and thinks that she should pursue some type of a trade or certificate program. There is nothing that she could see herself doing other than the program she was enrolled in. I am beginning to believe that my husband is correct but the thought of our daughter never having a college degree is pretty scary (all of our daughters siblings are super achievers) when we consider alternatives. Our daughter wants to be proud of her own accomplishments and currently she does not see a life without college and neither do I. </p>

<p>I don’t know if enrolling her in school at all is the right thing anymore. I also must add that in H.S she was a B student and ADD was diagnosed but never treated with meds. She has had poor reactions to two different meds,one while she was away at school (the week after she broke up with the boyfriend).</p>

<p>We will be seeing seeing a Dr this week and I am hoping to gain some information that we could use to discover this perplexing situation.</p>

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<p>Some bright students with ADD have trouble with math because they understand the material, but make so many small errors (sign errors, for example) that they don’t get the right answer. Everybody says, check your answers, but they don’t always say how to check. Oftentimes they forget to mention to check the answer a different way than you got the answer. </p>

<p>So, for example, let’s say I’m trying to find the cube roots of an irrational number. I solve it the standard way, by expressing the number in polar coordinates and doing the manipulations. I come up with three cube roots. Done? No! I need to check. Should I do the problem again? No, I’ll just make the same mistakes I did the last time, if I made any. Should I look for sign errors? No, I’ll miss them. Instead, I should try cubing each of my proposed cube roots, to make sure they actually are the cube roots. In the very likely event that they are not, now I know I’ve made an error-- I’ll be more vigilant when I look over my calculations.</p>

<p>Math, especially calculus, can be unfriendly for ADD students. And able math students are not always the best tutors. It can take practice to learn how to present the material in small enough steps-- everything looks simple when you know it.</p>