Dilemma with daughter

Parents Forum
101

<p>"Now I’m 21 and she wants to get to know me. I will never answer her because she chose religion over me.’</p>

<p>Oh, Romani! It bothers me that you would say “never”! I have to say, whenever we have one of these parent coercing a kid threads, it baffles me to think that any one thing or event would permanantly destroy a relationship within a family. Sure, I can see if one thing was part of a series of things. And especially if that one thing was, oh, lighting your kid on fire, or something like the stories I sometimes here. </p>

<p>For the record, I don’t know that I was “forced” to go to church before I became an adult. It was just what we did. I had no hard feelings about it, or my parents, for raising me that way. I know that is not the same as giving and then taking back tution, and that reminds me that I did have a few negative feelisngs about my family encouraging me to take an AFROTC scholarship, buty that was several years later, and during wartime. I often chuckle at some Catholic rituals that are still like a reflex to me, and wonder about religious practices in general, but I can’t imagine it being the thing that would make me sever ties. I do have some Jehovas Witnesses in my family though, where there hwere problems for a very long time.</p>

102

<p>I wonder what would happen if the young woman attended mass under the eagle eye of her brother and didn’t take Communion on a particular week.</p>

103

<p>This entire post brings back memories of my college roommate’s adventures in Catholicism.</p>

<p>He became a priest and I believe married his church’s secretary.</p>

<p>And by believe, I mean that I <em>think</em> she was a secretary. I just know that she worked at the church and he married her.</p>

<p>The funny thing is that I’m currently married and I could become a Catholic priest and remain married. I know, because I’ve said to myself, “you know, I could go be a catholic priest.”</p>

<p>That’s the benefit of being born and baptized as a Lutheran.</p>

104

<p>Shrink, there’s more to the story and I’ll pm you later. She only wants to get in contact with me to try to manipulate me. It has nothing to do with actually caring about me.</p>

105

<p>OP, from my understanding of this thread…your daughter attended another school at no cost to you, wasn’t happy and then transferred to another school that now costs you money. In order to make you happy, you put strings on the money- go to church every week.</p>

<p>We know from your posting that church is important in YOUR life. Your daughter is now an adult and even though you are paying for her to go to school, you can’t make her do what you want. Have you asked HER what her opinion is of the Catholic Church? Maybe she has made friends at this new school and deosn’t feel that she needs to attend in order to meet new people.</p>

<p>I’m a Protestant by birth and do not attend church. I went to a Catholic College because it had a small teacher/student ratio. Boy, was that an experience. A friend I met at college was Catholic and her family was very much like yours. Go to Mass every week no matter what. When my friend was at college, she very rarely attended Mass. When she went home (she lived about 40 miles from school) she was expected to attend Mass, no questions asked. To this day, she resents her mother for making her attend Mass and she doesn’t have any relationship with any church, much to her mothers dismay.</p>

<p>I would seriously rethink your idea of tying money to attending church. You really need to have a sit down discussion with her and LISTEN to what she would like to do about religion and then not make any derogatory remarks about her plan. I think you are on a rocky path, and I wish you luck.</p>

106

<p>Sorry, this isn’t an issue about parents’ “concern” over a daughter’s supposed loss of faith (if so manifested by not going to Sunday mass), which is truly a private matter between daughter and her God, but rather about exerting inappropriate control over an adult-child.</p>

<p>Catholics seem to divide into two camps: those who view Sunday Mass and adherence to Vatican-defined rules as the definition of “Catholicism”, and those who “walk the talk” and have a compassion for the poor and the sick and the underprivileged, in volunteer work and in charitable action, and aren’t judging other Catholics for their conformance to the “rules”. Perhaps the daughter has ascribed herself to the first camp.</p>

107

<p>Sorry, meant the “second” group, but my point’s the same: parents, back off.</p>

108

<p>Considering the OP is paying 25K out of pocket for tuition I do not think it’s an unreasonable request at ALL for the dd to sit through an hour of ANYTHING once a week. Like others have said, she’s an adult, if she wants the 25K of “free” money she needs to pay the price. It’s an hour a week.</p>

109

<p>Yes, the OP could demand the daughter sit through an hour a week of mass under the control and custody of her brother, but at the end of college, what will the OP have actually bought for herself?</p>

110

<p>^^That was basically what I did to make my parents happy during my college years, then I moved cross-country afterwards, so I wouldn’t have to deal with the pressure. Is that price worth it?</p>

111

<p>I would have much less of a problem if the mom was asking the daughter to do this for her, without the threat of reducing funding and particularly without the brother spying and ratting on her. That is just so ugly.</p>

112

<p>Well, you’re the parent, but might I suggest that making her attend mass isn’t going to do anybody any good if they aren’t going to be receptive in the first place? It looks like your options are:</p>

<p>1) lay down the law and force her to attend mass, making her hate mass
2) ostensibly keep the mass requirement, but in practice let this slide, undercutting your authority with her and doing nothing to change her attitude towards mass
3) tell her that you’re dropping the mass requirement, and forming some new contract</p>

<p>I don’t think anybody ever got closer to God by being forced to attend religious services. <em>Choosing</em> to attend religious services is one thing, doing it because you have to is worse than not going at all because of the bad taste it will leave in your mouth.</p>

113

<p>^^^ Awcomon, really MaineLonghorn ? You moved across the country because your parents would pressure you to go to church? </p>

<p>I can’t remember the saying, but there WAS one told to me by someone who invited me to his Episcopal church. It was when I went back to church “for my children”. It was not “fake it 'till you make it”, but something similar. Meaning, at first it feels awkward and uncomfortable, but in time it feels more natural and like a habit. </p>

<p>Same was true when I started at my gym!</p>

114

<p>Shrinkrap, it was being pressured to go to THEIR church. For years (like 20!), my dad would want to argue theology whenever we visited each other. If we had lived nearby, it would have been unrelenting. (I should add that in every other way, my parents are wonderful - they have been a huge support over the years.)</p>

<p>My sister and her family DID stay nearby. They attended my parents’ church for 15 years or so, until my BIL couldn’t take it and they started going to another church (same denomination, but “more liberal”). My parents took it very poorly. I was REALLY happy I had left before children were involved.</p>

115

<p>I’ll provide a slightly different perspective, not on the religion issue, but on being controlled by money.</p>

<p>Years ago when I was in college, my parents had a high enough income that I qualified for no financial aid and became very dependent on their money.</p>

<p>In return my parents knew they could use that money to control me. While I was attempting to find my own path and become independent, to them any ‘poor decision’ I made could simply be controlled with the threat of cutting me off financially.</p>

<p>If you don’t pick a major we approve of, we won’t pay the bills. If you take classes we don’t approve of, we won’t pay the bills. If you live somewhere we don’t approve of, we won’t pay the bills. If you date someone we don’t like, we won’t pay the bills.</p>

<p>I was in my 20s and litterally had to run every decision I made past my parents to make sure they were “OK with it”, so that I didn’t risk getting cut off financially.</p>

<p>It is now more than 20 years later and I can still say that behavior did long term damage to our relationship which has never and may never recover. I have had very few conversations with my father since the day I graduated from college, I can probably count the number of conversations we’ve had on my fingers. They still demonstrate very little respect for me and my choices in life. In spite of the fact that I’ve worked in IT for nearly 20 years, my mom will tell me stories of them paying to have someone look at their computers or asking their neighbors about what type of new computer they should purchase. When I feel compelled to remind her that IS what I do for a living, even now, they treat me like I’m a child playing ‘house’…while it’s cute, I can’t possibly ‘know’ anything. </p>

<p>Allowing your children to grow up and learning to respect them (and the decisions they make) as adults is an important step, failure to do so will cause long term damage to the relationship.</p>

116

<p>A person is allowed to choose their religious belief and what they want to do about it; similarly, it is your choice whether or not you want to pay for her tuition.</p>

117

<p>MaineLonghorn isn’t the only one to move away due to these types of control issues. I grew up not knowing my uncle and my cousin because of money and control issues. I have never been told the whole story, but my grandparents game my uncle money for school, and he used some of it for something else. My grandfather was upset, but prepared to forgive. My grandmother, on the other hand, wouldn’t let it go. To the day she died, she wouldn’t forgive him.</p>

<p>He cut ties with the whole family, because it would have caused stress for my grandfather to maintain a relationship with him while his wife still resented what had happened. She treated my father at the “good child” and him as the “bad child.” I don’t know if she would have treated my father the same way if he had done the same thing, but I do remember her being judgemental about everything.</p>

<p>The result was that I grew up not knowing my uncle, and have only met my cousin once, after his parents divorced. My grandparents didn’t get to watch their grandson grow into a young man, didn’t have any influence over him (though he turned out to be a decent person). The OP’s daughter might or might not feel the same way if the money for college truly has stings attached. When those strings are related to grades, and progress, it is understandable - it is tied to the value of the education being purchased with the money. When tose strings are related to other behavior, and the two parties don’t agree on the importance of that other behavior, it causes friction. The OP says he son is not “tattling” but it doesn’t really matter why he tells her - the fact that he twlls her what his sister is doing may be perceived by her daughter as tattling and spying. Not a good way to build trust. </p>

<p>I don’t think this is a question of non-Catholics not understanding, but of being concerned that this current path is one which might lead OP’s daughter AWAY from the church - and ultimately have the opposite of the desired effect. No, she won’t grow to enjoy the church if she doesn’t attend, but she also won’t grow to hate it either. She needs to accept the church on her own terms, or her attendance at mass is meaningless. </p>

<p>This situation has all the trappings of a dysfunctional relationship. The parents need to come clean with the daughter - why did they push her to attend the “free” school in the first place? Did they agree to the transfer because they realized their greed (calling it like I see it) meant the daughter was out from under their thumb - was this an opportunity to re-exert some control? As Higgins posted - this isn’t about the money. The OP knows she was on shaky ground by suggesting she should pull financial support - otherwise she wouldn’t have posted here (and this is the only thread she has posted on at CC). I suspect most of us understand the issue of wanting to enforce a contract, but it was a bad contract, and should be renegotiated. If the OP feels strongly enough that she can’t financially support her daughter if she isn’t part of the Catholic Church, she knows what she needs to do. But I suspect this is testing her faith too. Does she believe her daughter won’t be saved, and is she willing to accept that even if that is the case, it is still not her decision, but her daughter’s?</p>

118

<p>So to the op, will you cut her off if she doesnt go to mass? And how catholic does she need to be? Will sitting in church be enough? Will she have to take communion? Go to confession? Volunteer?</p>

<p>When does the contract end? And will you question her about the services?</p>

<p>As for the brother, he tattled. She won’t trust him anymore.</p>

119

<p>I think the OP should change the title of the thread because this dilemma is not with the daughter, but with her own inability to accept the fact that her children are individuals with their own ideas and moral code.</p>

<p>To demand that an adult child attend mass is ridiculous. Adults in this country have the freedom to choose their beliefs. If you love truly love your daughter (which I’m sure you do), you will love her just the same whether she chooses to attend mass or not. It sounds to me as if you’re frustrated that you can’t dictate or control her personal choices. There comes a point when parents need to understand that respect is a two way street. You need to respect your daughter’s choice of whether or not she wants to attend mass just as she needs to respect your choice regarding your decision whether or not to attend mass. Don’t use religion as a way to try to control her.</p>

120

<p>College mom, so what would mom gain if she forced daughter to sit in mass an hour a week? Does she think the daughter will suddenly embrace the church again if forced to sit there? </p>

<p>Lead a horse to water…</p>