<p>When my kids were very young I was careful never to make ‘threats’ I wasn’t prepared to follow through with. I didn’t say “If you do that again we are leaving” in a restaurant unless I was prepared to pack the family up and go home right then. I fully understand the concept of sticking with what you agreed to or by golly your kids will walk all over you. I get that.</p>
<p>Having said that, some of the most teachable moments I have had with my now young adult children have been when I was able to say ‘I was wrong’, back up, reevaluate, and move forward. This does not weaken my stance as a parent, allow my adult child a ‘win’ and tell them that they don’t have to honor agreements. It tells them that sometimes in life you make decisions that you later see were not in the best interest of all involved and instead of forging ahead to make a point the right thing to do is admit it and make proper adjustments. THIS is the example I’d rather set.</p>
<p>" isn’t the only one to move away due to these types of control issues."</p>
<p>I see. But in your story, it sounds like it was about a pattern of control issues, and not a single request. I know going to church every a Sunday for four years is not a single request, but a 4X52 request, but I wonder if it has the same meaning in an otherwise good and respectful relationship.</p>
<p>A few years ago I felt vilified here on CC for what might have been a similar agreement between my D and I. I think what’s hard about that is, while it’s true that a parent can be blind to their own shortcomings, it is also important for critics to be able to understand this this point is one in a billion points, in a families timeline.</p>
<p>It is pretty normal for yourng adults to question religion in general and weekly attendence at Mass in particular.</p>
<p>for what it is worth, I would counsel that you atart by telling your son that is relationship with his sister is a gift from God and should be highly valued by him. As such, he should conduct himself in such a manner as to build trust with her. He does not need to rat her out for not attending Mass. If he is concerned, he should pray for her.</p>
<p>She will find her way back to Mass in good time. Just relax. Let her go to school in peace, so she can grow. When she becomes a mom . . . the universe looks different. Be patient.</p>
<p>If I found myself in a class where I thought I was getting as much value as I feel I get from going to Mass (none whatsoever; it feels like a complete waste of time) I wouldn’t go to the class either.</p>
<p>I realize that others have a different experience of religion in general and of Mass in particular. More power to you; I love hearing about other people’s religious experiences. I have no wish to criticize others’ religions unless they impinge on me. </p>
<p>But you’re not going to make someone like going to Mass by paying her to go to Mass. And when she graduates from college and stops being paid to go to church, she’ll stop going. This does not seem like a good plan.</p>
<p>I’ve only had three big disagreements with my parents. One was about attending church with my parents. For me, I reached my limit in high school and starting rebelling against the mandatory attendance requirement of my parents. Why did I rebel about this topic? Because when I went to “our church” I felt like an incredible hypocrite. By going I was giving the appearance of believing in God and in the actions of the church … when in reality I did not believe in God or in many actions of the church. Unintentionally, my parents were putting me into a situation that was VERY uncomfortable to me. Fortunately they listened to me and let me decide whether I wanted to go to church or not … if they had forced me to go for another 7 years and to feel like a hypocrite that while time it may well have driven a permanent wedge between us.</p>
<p>There are a couple things I try to do as a parent … or should I saw not do … </p>
<p>1) As blueiguana said … When my kids were very young I was careful never to make ‘threats’ I wasn’t prepared to follow through with</p>
<p>2) I try to avoid setting my kids up to fail. Asking them to do something for years which they do not want to do and then hammering them when they do not do it as we like is setting them up to fail … eventually, they will not miss a mass and you will be mad at them … as soon as they have the human reaction 99% of humans would have (miss some masses) as parents you judge them as having failed.</p>
The OP will believe theologically what she is taught and believes and it’s really irrelevant to the point. As with most things religious, I don’t think anyone will convince the OP to believe any differently on the theology question.</p>
<p>I think the real point is the level of control the OP wants to exert over someone else’s behavior. The OP may think she can control the D’s thoughts but she can’t. The OP can influence the D’s behavior to a limited extent by withholding the college payment unless the D physically attends mass every Sunday. The result will be the D will either go sit in church every week in body (but maybe not spirit) or the D will have to find some other way to pay for college or drop out. Is that really what the OP is trying to achieve? I doubt it. In the process of either of the above there’s a very good chance the OP will alienate her D from both herself and the church but that’s the OP’s choice.</p>
<p>What’s key here is the idea that as long as the OP is paying for college she has a strong say in how the OP conducts herself with respect to physically attending mass and most likely other areas. </p>
<p>Let’s fast forward a bit - let’s say the D acquiesces and goes and sits in the church building every week (perhaps even actually doing HW, FB, etc. rather than paying attention), which satisfies the OP’s requirement (but probably not the real wishes and goal) and thus the OP continues to pay for college, gets done with college, then is out on her own but then decides not to attend mass, especially since she no longer has a proverbial gun to her head forcing her to do so. What will the OP do then? Will it be a lifelong major point of contention to the point where the two will perhaps avoid each other (especially the D avoiding the family) or will the OP back down by then? If it’ll be a major divisive point then it’ll be a shame for all concerned. It might affect whether the grandparents get to see the grandkids very much and have lots of other ramifications. This is how the wedge starts.</p>
<p>Will there ever be a point at which the OP can accept that the D (and maybe even the S someday), the kids’ future spouses, the future grandkids, may not follow the same practices as the OP but are still moral people and that this divisive point won’t be permitted to come between them?</p>
<p>You should first establish for sure that she isn’t attending mass. Then maybe talk to her, find out why. But, since you are concerned about the fact that not attending is a sin, keep in mind that simply attending but not participating is also a sin (I’m not personally Catholic, but I was raised as such).
Maybe she agreed to go, but decided later that she wants to make her own religious decisions. Maybe she’s changed since you made that agreement. In that case, see if you can all compromise, in terms of your requirements for her.</p>
<p>I consider myself an agnostic. I attended church occasionally (generally holidays) while I was growing up. When I was in my teens, I went through a period where I became fairly religious and attended service and church activities regularly (even without my parents). As I’ve grown, I’ve done a lot of questioning and haven’t attended a service in years and years.</p>
<p>My son proclaimed he was an atheist at a fairly young age and has never waivered.</p>
<p>About a year ago, my son started dating a girl whose father happens to be a minister and she attends their family’s church regularly. On several occasions, she has invited him to attend service with her, which he has done.</p>
<p>To the OP - how would you advise me if I were to tell my son that any of his tutition money is contingent upon him not attending church? If I were to tell him that I have issues with organized religion and if he chooses to attend services, then I will hold him accountable for paying part of that tutition. I know his beliefs and know that if he chooses to attend services that he is not honoring those beliefs, so I am doing the right thing by stepping in. It is up to me to ensure that he remains faithful to his beliefs. Is that a reasonable agreement? If that were the case, what would you recommend as a path forward?</p>
<p>I know Protestant people who would have a very hard time if their D married a Catholic, so I assume there are also Catholic people who would have a very hard time if their D married a Protestant.</p>
<p>loneranger60 – this is all somewhat outside my experience as a parent or as a child, but what about asking your own priest of the church you attend for guidance on this? (I am sorry if this has been suggested – I didn’t see it yet.)</p>
<p>There were a couple of times I used money as “threats” over my daughters. And it was something I more joked about as I didn’t think they would actually do it, but i told them if I ever found out the were smoking, i would stop any extras, ie mani pedis, treating for haircuts, etc. I told them if they could afford to smoke, I didn’t feel the need to treat them to something that makes them feel good. Smoking to me makes one look older, skin worse, teeth bad, etc, so why waste my money on the extra stuff that makes one look better. I learned a few of their friends started smoking, and this was in highschool, so I wanted to give them a heads up.</p>
<p>If I found now they were smoking, and both being health nuts I know they won’t, they cough when they walk past smokers, but they both know if they started, I would stop the extra niceties. Its not controlling their life choices, it would just be not helping out and treating them when they are hurting their bodies.</p>
<p>or worse- an atheist! (Just ask my future MIL who hasn’t wrapped her head around the fact that I will not get married in a Church, baptize my children, etc). </p>
<p>I’ve seen so many families torn apart by religion. It’s so sad IMO. It’s not something any God would ever want- at least I would think.
OP, I really do hope you encourage your D to find the right path for herself. But I can nearly guarantee that if you pressure her or make her feel guilty, she will not come back willing to you or the church- at least not for a very, very long time.</p>
<p>OP: My parents tried a similar thing with me when I was in HS. I went to Catholic school, had to go to church groups, etc. I am now an agnostic bordering on atheist, and so are my sisters.</p>
<p>You are not going to make your daughter enjoy church by forcing her to go (just the opposite), and you are also going to make her unwilling to have a close relationship wit you. Nothing good will come out of this. Stop kidding yourself.</p>
My father was a rabid, psycho anti-Catholic. I swear he mus have been Martin Luther in a previous life.</p>
<p>All of his children married Catholics. All of his grandchildren attended Catholic schools at one time or another, with four graduating from them.</p>
<p>Wow! I can’t believe all these responses!! This topic even made the “CC Hot Topics list” Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. It has really made me rethink my inital reaction which is what I was looking for when I initally wrote because I believe in the adage “pick your battles” and deep down I knew that this was one I probably didn’t want to pick.</p>
<p>In response to the several postings about this being really about us not wanting to spend the money that we didn’t have to spend last year - I don’t think that is it at all as the dollars we are spending have been earmarked for D’s college. If she didn’t need them for undergraduate she would have used them for graduate school. She understands that when the money is gone it is gone and graduate school will be on her own dime. </p>
<p>I had a conversation with D and encouraged her to attend Mass and pointed out all the benefits she would have at this new church as opposed to the old, stodgy one at home. I don’t think she is opposed and will try to attend. After hearing all these arguments I am going to take a step back and not specifically tie paying of her tuition to attending Mass. </p>
<p>After all, I really would like her to have a good relationship with the church and not feel coerced. I will keep praying that she finds it in herself to seek a spiritual life for herself.</p>
<p>I’m very, very proud of you. Good job. I do hope she picks the best path for her, whatever that may be. Now that she has your support (or at least, that is the vibe I got from your post), that journey will be much easier. </p>