<p>There’s plenty of alcohol on campus these days, but it pales in comparison to how available it was in my day. However, we did not ever serve alcohol during rush - way too risky. We did have plenty of blenders whirring before other parties, however. It was strictly against national rules though - as was having guys in our rooms.</p>
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<p>Nice.</p>
<p>I came to this conversation with little information (except from movies), and honestly looking for an honest perspective from those in the know. My attitude about sororities is now pretty negative and not because of outside naysayers, but from postings from some of those in the sororities themselves. This kind of comment above is exactly what gives it a bad rap.</p>
<p>Picking out part of what I said and neglecting to read the rest of the sentence in attempts to make me look bad does not make you or your point effective.</p>
<p>^No point in reposting your whole quote…they can read it above. The point is SOME of the things you say come out sounding outright snotty and I thought you might like to know what some others might just pick up on.</p>
<p>I’m only speaking that way because of the nasty way people speak of greek life who have no real knowledge of what its like. I hear it all the time, people love to bash the greek system and sometimes you get frustrated with all the ignorance. But I understand and point taken, I know I should not bring myself down to their level. I have a support network full of loving, smart and successful sisters and apparently they have a lot of negative attitude and resentment. I just hate to see someone ruining the potential experience for someone else because of ignorant prejudice. Its really a shame because most people find it one of the greatest things in their lives.</p>
<p>Fummer, you can’t say that people outside Greek life don’t know anything about it. They don’t know what it’s like living on the inside but they have plenty of information from their own perspective if they’ve been on a campus where Greeks exist. And if a girl is questioning whether to go through Rush, they should hear points of view from both inside and out. Some points that seem irrefutable based on what members have said here are:</p>
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<li>Girls go through a selection process in which some will come out winners but others will be disappointed or downright hurt.</li>
<li>Rush can have an impact on ones self-esteem, negative for those who are rejected, (and I add) not only those girls on the outside trying to get in, but logically on those girls in less popular houses that are not chosen by a lot of girls.</li>
<li>Houses on different campuses seemed to be unofficially ranked…as members themselves here have referred to “higher” and “lower” tiered sororities. So status is evidently involved in membership in a particular sorority.</li>
<li>At least part of the decision-making is based on appearance and how well “put together” a girl is. Clearly much of it is based on the social grace that the rushees can pull off at these parties.</li>
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<p>And Finally, </p>
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<li>Once on the inside, most (but not all) girls have a great time with their house sisters and activities and view it as a positive experience.</li>
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<p>Pizzagirl, I am sorry you feel this way because I definitely think I’d be one of those people you consider not “pulled-together” and would avoid getting to know. I regularly wear non-stylish jeans and t-shirts, with rarely any makeup to school events and around town. I’m perfectly aware that some people consider my lack of effort in nicer dress an indication of a personality flaw, but fortunately I have a lot of friends who put much greater care into their appearance that seem to appreciate me for who I am. I would never shut out the possibility of getting closer to someone who obviously put a lot of stock in their own appearance just because I don’t consider it a priority for me. One of the values that I have heavily emphasized with my daughters (who are very much more “pulled-together” than myself) is for them to never judge anybody’s worthiness by appearances. I want them to immediately look beyond the visual and develop impressions of people based on the next level. I realize that still may be based on limited conversation and superficial things initially, but just so long as the outside facade is not what they first see.</p>
<p>1.Alcohol. I attended college back in the day when the drinking age was 19 in my state, so most of us were legal age. However, our national did not allow us to serve alcohol in the house (we could drink in the house, but only in our rooms), in fact we were not even allowed to serve wine to the parents on parents weekend. The one sorority on our campus which was allowed to serve had a party and the house was so trashed they never did that again. The drinking parties were at the fraternities.</p>
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<li>Yes there is a disapointment/hurt feeling issue for some girls in rush. But how is this any different from all of the High School tryouts, cliques, etc? Gee, the HS’s I have had experience with (my own and D’s) were far worse in this regard than the sorority system.</li>
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<p>FallGirl’s Point #2: totally second that. (Sorry, not good with the quoting). Could not agree more.</p>
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<p>Wow…that REALLY makes me not want to join a sorority. I don’t like this us vs. them attitude</p>
<p>RocketLouise-- Just don’t do it if it is SEC or the deep south unless you have recs, because in that area it is a different thing altogether. Also, if you wait until your sophmore year, you might find you have just naturally gravitated to a group of friends in one sorrority, anyway.</p>
<p>My story: I never could have afforded a sorrority in undergrad. I put myself through school back when you could still do this with a job. (OOS flagship with scholarship). But, you know, I still ended up at all the parties of one particular house and I still ended up living with 3 other girls from this same sorrority my senior year, off campus. And most of the younger girls all thought I was in that sorrority, and I’m still friends with most of those girls, today. Probably the 80’s version of a sorrority scholarship. Everyone knew I couldn’t afford it. We were just naturally friends. This was a midwest school.</p>
<p>D is at a school out west and went through rush and joined a house and made all the cuts herself. She still has girls from other houses tell her how sad they were she didn’t end up in ABC, etc…The odd thing is that while she does have “the look” just by nature of getting out bed of a sorrority girl, she is incredibly artsy and very creative and completely shy. If you asked her why she joined a house she would say she’s shy and she likes parties and she didn’t want to have to create a social world out of thin air.</p>
<p>She would also point out that most kids don’t get thier first friends based on just being there. Play dates are made by mothers who like one another. Girls become friends through being in the shows together over the years or club sports or belonging to the same swimming pool club…etc…So, I think this whole “it’s arbitrary” or it’s designed is kind of a silly conversation.</p>
<p>For any girls, though, who experience a really devastating rejection, I do agree with Hanna’s earlier post that it would be better if everyone lived in small houses and dorms where there were events planned and whatnot. But they don’t.</p>
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<p>Yes, I agree High School can be very bad in that sense, but does that really justify that it continues on in college? And, I am absolutely not saying that rejection can or should be avoided. It’s true that such disappointment will happen all through life and it’s best to learn to deal with it and build-up resilience. I personally just question, in the case of sororities, the criteria for the rejections–are they based on the kind of qualities that you want your kids’ value as a friend to be judged on? And that you want them to judge others on?. IMO, too many young women these days tie their self-worth to how much they impress others rather than what they like about themselves and this system for recruitment just exacerbates that.</p>
<p>Out of curiosity, I looked to see what the deal was at D1’s school, NYU, where it’s my impression that the Greek presence is barely perceptible. The website says this:</p>
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<p>So, at least there, apparently, no one gets totally left out. Funny they don’t state the same policy with fraternities. </p>
<p>To make clear, I question the way girls are chosen for sororities, not their existence.</p>
<p>When our kids were younger we always invited everyone from their class to their parties so not to hurt anyone’s feeling. Our school even sent out memos to remind us of that. As kids got older they “picked” people they wanted to be friends with. The criteria could be looks, shared interest, similar personality… D1 started to only invite people she liked to her parties. But there were parents out there who instill insisted on that it wasn’t nice their kids weren’t invited to every party. They couldn’t grasp the fact that just because they were in the same class it didn’t mean they were friends or had to be friends, they just need to be cordial.</p>
<p>Sororities choose their members by looks (yes), personality (yes), but also of other qualities - leadership, involvement with the community, grades… They want girls who would participate to run various events and upkeep of the house. One house may care more about looks, and another maybe more focused on religion, sports…If a girl wants to join a sorority she needs to find the one that fits her, but she doesn’t have the right (entitled) to join whichever one she wants. After all, it is a club and a club has limited membership. My daughter’s sorority wants nice, wholesome girls. They would prefer girls without a reputation around the campus. In the fall, when the sisters are at parties, if they see girls acting wild, they will cross those girls off their list because they don’t want to live with girls like that. On the other hand, there are other sororities that thrive on that reputation.</p>
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<p>A really close friend who shares wildwood’s philosophy came to visit me recently. When I picked her up at the airport she had on the rattiest, tattiest faded pastel sweat suit I have ever seen in my life. I had on a rather stylish, slightly avant garde black suit. We both died laughing. It was a joke for the rest of our week together. In my opinion we each have a very purposeful look. And probably it would be a mistake to judge either of us by our clothes. My friend was in one of those good sororities where people don’t judge you on appearance or family background. She loved it. When her daughter decided to rush at one of those notorious southern schools (this was her daughter’s decision, not hers at all), she made sure her daughter had adequate recs, bought her the right clothes (very very hard on my friend) and even rooted around and came up with some family pearls 
Except for the huge surprise of recruitment from an active’s perspective, her daughter seems very happy in the group, even though she is definitely not given the same clothing allowance as some of her sorority sisters.</p>
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<p>Me, too. I honestly don’t understand why women who want the sorority experience can’t be randomly assigned to groups in the same way some colleges create residential colleges. It would take the sting out of the selection process. It would lessen the power and prestige some groups hold on some campuses. I think it would be wonderful not to have situations where some sororities are struggling with 20 members and some groups have many more girls who desperately want that particular sorority than places for those girls.</p>
<p>Congrats to Sabaray’s daughter on the snap bid!! So glad it worked out for her!</p>
<p>Thank you SWTCAT! She is so excited. And her mom is too. :)</p>
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<p>My D attends a college where they randomly assign freshmen (in groups) to upper class housing. One of her freshman suitemates was so devastated by her housing assignment that she required counseling. (It was considered in the hinterlands). On the other hand, my D ended up in what is considered the most prestigious house. Her friends regularly ask to be taken to meals there. Obviously, randomness is not a solution to the issues of hurt and power.</p>
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<p>Many residential colleges are based on a shared interest, whether it’s international relations, the environment, science / technology, communications, etc. </p>
<p>As for the res colleges and dorms that are indeed just randomly assigned, don’t you think people form their own friendship groups within anyway? What’s the difference? </p>
<p>Should upperclassmen/ women not be allowed to choose roommates / suitemates / groups of friends to live with? Maybe that should all be random, too. </p>
<p>And you keep forgetting that joining sorority A doesn’t mean you can’t be friendly with women in sorority B, or people who aren’t in the Greek system. No one cares. No one’s sitting around watching to make sure a ChiO never goes out for coffee with a Kappa. Well, maybe in the South, I suppose, but not in most of the country.</p>
<p>RocketLouise: part of my post 109 was a response to you mentioning Alabama in post 68. I would also point you to a documentary called Bama Girl</p>
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<p>RocketLouise, I am not pushing anyone to rush. Obviously. But I support wholeheartedly any young woman who makes that decision. If you do decide to do so, I bet you could come up with sufficient recs by just asking on this board. I would be delighted to provide you with one to my sorority.</p>
<p>“don’t you think people form their own friendship groups within anyway? What’s the difference?”</p>
<p>The main difference is that they can change at will. You can incorporate a new member at any time, leave whenever you want and join a different group, be in three groups at once, etc. There’s no label on who’s in and who’s out. If I’m not friends with the girls on the second floor today, I might be tomorrow. But I’m not going to be a Kappa, tomorrow or ever.</p>
<p>Another difference is that none of the friendship groups I’ve been in required people to pay up front. A sorority is an institution for a reason; it collects members’ money and spends it on events for the benefit of those members. Sometimes others are invited to the event, but then they are guests, not hosts. The fact that you have to be able to pay strongly colors the admission process IMHO.</p>
<p>None of this is evil. It’s just meaningfully different from having a group of friends.</p>