<p>I simply didn’t see it as any different from how we would all have “judged” one another if it had occurred naturally, through dorm meetings and classes and parties and campus events. The situation of setting up the parties and having it be “disciplined” (30 minutes here, move on, 30 minutes here, move on) isn’t natural, but the actual content of the conversations simply weren’t any different from conversations that would have organically occurred in between classes, at campus-wide events, in the cafeteria, etc. “Hi, nice to meet you. Where are you from? Oh, cool, you should meet my friend Mary, she’s from Seattle too - maybe you guys have people in common. What are you majoring in? Oh, make sure you take a class with Prof X! He’s the best. Have you had a chance to check out the such-and-such on campus or in town?”</p>
<p>Which is why I don’t get all the “superficial” nonsense. You’d have a point if the rushees were being made to parade on stage like a Miss America pageant in bathing suits and evening wear. But the conversations are pretty much identical to organic conversations that arise in dorms, cafeterias, etc. They just occur in a structured space and time.</p>
<p>But you can do the same. Nothing says you have to be friendly with every single girl in your house (I certainly wasn’t - there were girls I didn’t care for and who didn’t care for me, and so, oh well, we were cordial and that was that). It’s not as though you’re all now 100 equally BFF’s who all move in lockstep. And no one says you can’t also be friendly with the girls-on-the-second-floor or that-girl-from-your-French-class or the-gang-from-the-tennis-team.<br>
You guys are portraying a rigidity of friendship that just isn’t there … .that once the circle is drawn, it’s closed. It’s just not accurate, IMO.
And houses might have mixers with certain fraternities more than others, but really … date whoever you like, for goodness sake. No one cares if the guy you date is in a certain frat or not, or not Greek. Do what you like. This isn’t a religion, it’s a social club.</p>
<p>I agree with Hanna. I have never been a “joiner”. Perhaps that is why I have my own business, even the corporate system with its filters and hierarchys drove me nuts. When I went to school I sought out friends who were different from me. As an “artistic” type who grew up in a very white bread upper middle class lifestyle, I desired a radical change and wanted to surround myself with diverse people and experiences.
I understand that others want a more constricted group of friends who share their culture and values. The fact that this in no way appeals to me does not signify anything more than that. However, this thread is about possible negatives of the sorority system. If your daughter is someone who feels compelled to join a restricted group and somehow they judge her as not being worthy and she is voted off of “pledge island”, this can be very hurtful and a genuinely negative experience. (no matter how nice and caring those girls are)</p>
<p>cartera, as I understand it a snap bid is offered when a sorority doesn’t meet their quota for their pledge class. They can then extend offers to women who either didn’t receive a bid or left the recruitment process as my D did. Not sure if it varies by school as I have absolutely no experience in this area.</p>
<p>Many campus groups that have a theme but are undeniably social do not let you jump in and out on a whim. A cappella groups, student newspaper staff, etc have entry requirements and some of them have dues. The primary theme of sororities is that they are residential living groups. Most of them have physical houses that must be paid for, so a commitment is required on the part of the members. Sororities cannot afford to have girls randomly join or give up their memberships from one week to the next.</p>
<p>OK, everyone has their own opinion about greek life, whether its based on reality or movies or whatever. My point is don’t ruin it for someone else before they get a chance to experience it for themselves. It truly is an experience you shouldn’t knock before you tried. If you have tried and had a bad experience I’m sorry. And if you’re so worried about people judging you on how you look and how well you socialize then you have every right to stay away from those groups, but that won’t stop people from doing it every day anyway so I don’t see what the difference is. Being part of a sorority is supposed to be a special privilege, just like getting into a good college. The point is that its exclusive and not everyone can be a part of it. We’re having recruitment here next week and we’ve put a lot of hours into practicing and making it perfect and trust me, we have no shortage of girls who want to rush, so if a couple of people with negative attitudes decide not to rush that’s their loss. Everyone gets to make their own decisions.</p>
<p>Re. this point I will be checking in the rest of the day to see if someone from the National Panhellenic Council decides to correct this misapprehension.</p>
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<li>so sorry so sorry but just ROFLOL</li>
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<p>I’ve been reading this thread with great interest as D is considering rushing and it is a foreign concept to me. I will admit that my undergrad school had very little greek life (in NJ at a public college) and my only interaction with a sorority pledge back then was when one of them had to stand in front of the milk machine in the food area and say “moo” every time someone got milk And D’s godfather was in a frat at WV which, according to him, consisted of a lot of drinking. And I read “Pledged” and watched Animal House, so I know that my personal opinion is rather skewed.</p>
<p>I’m strongly advising my D to go to Panhellenic Preview weekend so she can judge for herself. It’s her journey. And I will support her in whatever choices she makes. I can see the pros and cons, but it’s been like that for every “thing” she’s ever joined. The smart kids who are AP & IB “judge” the kids who don’t take honors classes; the athletes judge the braniacs; and on and on. It’s a lot easier for us to process people if we can put them in some type of box. And I know everyone doesn’t do that but it’s not just sorority folks who judge and get judged.</p>
<p>One of the things that is cracking me up about the rush process (and my D will be probably be going to UA) is that the girls have to have 2-3 letters of rec per house with about 12 houses. That ends up being 24-36 letters of rec! She just finished the college app process & it was a process to get the 2-3 academic letters of rec (did you get them? did he send them? did the school get them? can he resend it?) I figure if a girl has the gumption to get that many letters of rec, then more power to them! I still think that will be the administrative point that stops my D.</p>
<p>Fummer, you are doing a fantastic job of representing one side of the sorority culture that has been difficult for the rest of us to fully articulate. Seeing it is so much better than just reading about it second hand! I think you are doing a very good job as your comments will attract the ‘right kinds’ of girls I think you’d want to see in your sorority, and discourage the ‘wrong ones’. You go girl! :)</p>
<p>Bay, that’s true. But I’d never claim that joining my a cappella group was no different from choosing which clique to hang out with, or selecting my roommates, as PizzaGirl is suggesting about sorority membership. Of course we had best friends that weren’t in the group, but there was a bright line in or out, and we sent a very clear message that being friends was one thing, and being a Veritone was something else. We had all kinds of events, including primarily social events like retreats and banquets, that were just for us, and guests were not welcome. In my view, that’s what sororities do, too – to an even greater degree, since sororities have secret activities they can’t even talk about with non-members. I could tell you all about how Veritones are initiated, even though you can’t attend.</p>
<p>As I said before, I don’t think this makes sororities inherently bad. But they are exclusive by definition, and they’re more like a cappella groups than ordinary cliques, and we should acknowledge all of that.</p>
<p>Also, the majority of the NPC sorority chapters in this country do not have a house.</p>
It’s generalizations like this that hurt your cause. I was not in the Greek system, but D was, and had a very positive experience overall. But there were ‘disadvantages’, and I use that term loosely because I think the better word would be cons, from your pros and cons list. </p>
<p>I will say, though, that to a certain extent, the logistics of rushing do make pledging a sort of exclusive event, in the sense that on many campuses, there are not enough openings in all the sororities to accommodate every girl that wishes to join one. But the same can be said about a cappella groups, sports teams, student government, etc. The sheer numbers make it an exclusive experience, not the girls in them themselves.</p>
<p>I was not aware of this. Do you mean they do not own a house, or they do not physically have a living space designated for girls to co-habit? </p>
<p>Nearly all of the sororities with which I am personally familiar, via friends and relatives, had designated living accommodations. These may have been houses owned by the sorority, or may have been rented houses or apartment buildings. In any case, there was a mandate to initiate enough paying members in order to sustain the existence of the living quarters. </p>
<p>My D’s college is the only one I know of that does not have residential living quarters for its sororities, but that is because the college provides on-campus housing for all 4 years. Her sorority still must rent space for weekly regular meetings and other events, and each year they must enter into a rental contract for that space, so they still have a monetary obligation that requires stable membership dues. They also annually discuss fundraising to eventually acquire a building of their own that will provide another living option for the girls.</p>
<p>The sororities at SUNY (NY State) schools do not have houses. I think I was told that’s because in the wonderful state of NY, a house with more than five women living in it is considered a brothel. If I got that wrong, then I am blaming someone who gave us a college tour. We have visited other schools in other states without sorority houses (University of Hartford comes to mind first). I do not know how this effects dues structure, although I’m sure they still have to pay $$ to national.</p>
<p>My daughter has a great deal of experience being left out of a clique in middle school (when all of her friends, it turned out, became the drama clique and she was not interested at all) and learned how to cope and find other friends (with my help back then). I’m confident she will be able to handle sorority rush. As parents, we just need to prepare our girls - help them understand the process at the partcular college they attend. They can decide for themselves if they think it is worth it and want to proceed, knowing what the various outcomes can be.</p>
<p>This year I have talked to my daughter a lot about her various top choice colleges so that she understands that there is more then one right choice for her. Each will offer different experiences. In my opinion, the same goes for sororities.</p>
<p>I am not going to comment on all that is being said about sororities at southern schools. I didn’t attend one and my daughter will not be attending one. I was very pleased with my midwestern sorority experience.</p>
<p>Cornell has sorority houses, but they just can’t have parties at the house, so they usually have their parties off campus or at a fraternity. It works for them because there is no clean up after party.</p>
<p>Very true, even at geeky college like D’s the unofficial ranking of Sororities exists. The sorority residence might convey the apparent recognition of the ranking. There is a false sense of accomplishment and rejection that take over all girls during the rush period.</p>
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<p>The strictness of this varies from college to college and according to DD that her sorority at BU is much more mean than at MIT and may even put acceptance conditional on loosing 20lbs of weight. I might be wrong but all the DD’s sorority girls we met were full paying student.</p>
<p>Most of the sororities at MIT have houses, some on campus and some of campus. DD’s sorority have 2 very nice side by side houses on the famous Newbury Street in Boston. I think the greatest part of the semester dues go in maintaining such a residence whether or not you live in it. </p>
<p>But we got the first quarterly publication from DD soroity yesterday, it seems DD gave the official address as california address. So will be knowing a lot more about the national chapter of DD sorority soon.</p>
And D’s godfather was in a frat at WV which, according to him, consisted of a lot of drinking. And I read “Pledged” and watched Animal House, so I know that my personal opinion is rather skewed.</p>