<p>Actually, D, who joined a sorrority did it because, with her academic and outside service commitments, she did not want to have to devote so much time and energy into finding a “group.” It was expedient. Also, over 70% of girls in sorrorities graduate college wheras less than 50% of GDI’s graduate. Also, average GPA’s of ‘greek’ students tend to be higher than those of non-greek students.</p>
<p>D is a beautiful girl, to be sure, but she is also a science geek, gamer, who loves anime and comic books and is devoted to Shakespeare. She is shy. She really doesn’t fit any of the stereotypes being thrown out there in a negative way, except that she really likes people and likes hanging around with a fun group of girls. So what?</p>
<p>Of course. Was there someone who said otherwise?</p>
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<p>You keep talking about obligations, as if the time commitment was overwhelming. Academic devotion and excellence isn’t inconsistent with being Greek, at all. How do you think many of us went on to top law, business, or medical schools, or went on to get other graduate degrees, including PhD’s? </p>
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<p>How many times do we need to keep repeating that you can still have multiple circles of friends from whatever other activities or sports teams or common interests? You seem to be under this delusion that once you join a sorority, you can’t then be friends with other people outside the sorority or else … well, something bad will happen.</p>
<p>wis75,
I really don’t think any Greeks care one way or another whether you or your kids (or anyone in particular) join the group. What is so puzzling to me is why people like you and Cardinal Fang expend so much energy insulting those who choose to do so.</p>
<p>wis75 - I’ll grant you that your opinion may be correct about some sororities if you recognize that everything you said was completely off base with regard to my sorority experience. I was about as far away from “high society” as anyone could be when I came to college. I’d say I was downright dirt poor. However, I was funny and smart and very down to earth and friendly - and that is what mattered to people. As I mentioned earlier, my sorority chose to allow members to cook and serve for supper club in order for some of us to eat for free rather than have cute fraternity boys do it. We were not all blond and beautiful. We were a mix of nerds, hippies, artists, pre-meds, teetotalers, partiers, born again Christians, atheists, poor and wealthy. I know sororities are not supposed to be eclectic but we truly were. We weren’t all BFFs but we respected each other and looked out for each other. We wore homemade dresses and we regularly shared or borrowed and made sure that any member who couldn’t afford a new dress shopped in someone else’s closet. I went to at least 2 formal dances each year for 4 years and I think I actually owned 4 of the dresses I wore. My mother made 2 of them. There was no stereotype there. I don’t know why that was. I’m sure being at a public school contributed.</p>
<p>The reason I joined a sorority had nothing to do with “high society.” I was one of the “insecure.” Half way through my freshman year, I cried to my dorm advisor that I didn’t have any good girlfriends and I really wanted some. She is the one who talked me into going through rush in the fall of my sophomore year. It wasn’t a waste of time, it turned out to be a life-changing experience for me. You insult me every time you generalize with negative stereotypes about sorority girls. As I stated early on in this thread, in my experience those outside of the Greek experience were far more judgmental of me than those who were in it. They were just like wis75 and Cardinal Fang.</p>
<p>I loved my sorority experience … I was later faculty advisor & then chapter advisor. My husband’s fraternity brothers are truly his lifelong friends. Our small engineering school had a thriving greek system that encouraged members to interact with other greek groups & with GDIs.</p>
<p>Our D has never had any interest whatsoever in rushing … greek life just isn’t anything she cares to explore. Different strokes for different folks. </p>
<p>I say let the individual decide for herself what is right for her. Parents need to let the child make the decisions on this one (although they may need to weigh in on some of the greek groups that cost their members an arm & a leg …).</p>
<p>Women in sororities think highly of women in sororities. Women not in sororities don’t think as highly of women in sororities. Wow, stop the presses.</p>
<p>(And this isn’t any indictment of sorority women. Of course women in a group think highly of that group-- why else would they join?)</p>
<p>If the non-sorority female population of a school has large numbers of women who attempted rush but did not get bids, I can imagine that there would be more than enough resentment to go around from all sides.</p>
<p>Oh, good grief. I don’t think highly of “women in sororities” any more than I think highly of “women who play tennis” or “women who work on the student newspaper.” You take people at FACE VALUE. </p>
<p>I don’t think less of someone who doesn’t join a sorority – hey, their choice, whatever, takes all types. Only 2 schools on my D’s current list have sororities. I would encourage her to give rush a try, but if she doesn’t like it, no harm no foul. It certainly isn’t the kind of thing where she has to worry about “disappointing her mama” if she doesn’t get into The Right House with the Right Girls From The Right Backgrounds. (A big @@ to that.) </p>
<p>I do think less of people who engage in persistent untruths, such as implying that the selection process is only on the side of the house and not the girl, or implying that once you get in, the time commitment is so overwhelming that you can’t simultaneously be academically serious, or that once you get in, your friendship circles have been cut to just the girls, or that the selection process is based on race, religion, and an assessment of what your daddy makes and what handbag you carry. Maybe those things are true in the Southern / SEC schools. I don’t know. But as a rule, they aren’t true in the more normal, rational systems in the rest of the country, where it’s simply an assemblage of girls who enjoy one another’s company.</p>
<p>Right. Which is why there is a fundamental difference between systems in which 4X girls are competing for X pre-ordained spots, and systems in which the number of spots is calculated in such a way as to ensure practically everybody will get into a house.</p>
<p>I have been pondering this question and trying to decide how inappropriate it would be to give absolutely unsolicited advice and answer a related but unasked question. I have finally made up my mind that if it is useful to just one person reading, it is probably justified. So I will, though this may offend many reading. I am not too worried about sororities and alcohol. I am worried about sororities and fraternities and alcohol- especially at mixer type parties- where imho there is a risk of sexual assault. I believe rushees and pledges to be at greatest risk and am most concerned about the shy, introverts who may have little or no dating experience. I don’t think this is a risk that should discourage sorority participation or needs to keep parents up at night, if a young woman is aware and understands how to protect herself. This is the advice I give young women I know. YMMV</p>
<p>Do not drink from the bowl or tub in the middle of the room.
Do not accept a mixed drink.
Only drink from a bottle you have opened yourself whether it is beer, soda or water.
A keg is okay if you watch your drink come out of the keg.
Never leave a drink unattended, ever, with anyone at all.
Never go to an unfamiliar fraternity house alone.
Always stay in public areas.
Never go to the bathroom in an unfamiliar fraternity house without another woman. Wait for each other outside the door if it isn’t set up for multiple use.
If you decide to be intimate with a fraternity member, take him home with you or to a place outside the fraternity house where you have control of the environment. Always. Never have sex in a fraternity house.
Always keep condoms in your purse, even if you are absolutely sure that never in a million years are you going to need one. No one has to know you are carrying them. You can keep them in the zipper compartment. (the last one, of course, has nothing to do with the sexual assault concern, but just thought I would throw it in since it is part of my whole spiel when I give this talk)</p>
<p>Almost all my male relatives are fraternity men. They are all very honorable men, as I am sure are all the fraternity men in your life. Still, I’m putting this advice out there.</p>
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<p>Yesterday, poking around on the panhellenic web page I was very happy to see a link to a page on eating disorders. This is a greater concern to me than alcohol abuse in a sorority environment. In the seventies we didn’t know the terms anorexia and bulimia. We just thought the upperclasswomen had really great dieting tips. It is the sort of environment that may not be real healthy for young women who already have a propensity in that direction. again YMMV</p>
<p>Your tips are all good ones – however, I think they apply to ANY situation in which there are young men and women between the ages of 18 and 21 who are gathered together for a party, whether or not the party is sponsored by the Greek system, the men’s lacrosse team, or just a bunch of kids who are throwing a party.</p>
<p>Real mothers arrange play dates for their daughters regardless of whether they like the other mother, adore the other mother, feud with the other mother, etc.</p>
<p>(I did, and the other mothers did.) </p>
<p>Off-topic, but you’re the one who brought it up, in a thread that apparently prides itself on stereotyping (on both sides, it seems), so in that aspect it’s right on-topic.</p>
<p>As I have posted a few pages back, my daughter’s sorority has sobers for every mixer they are invited to. They all take turns for the job. They are there to make sure no one gets too drunk. When they see anyone has had too much, they will hand her a glass of water as a sign. Of course, not everyone will adhere to the rule, especially when she is at a point of no return. But they will get the person back to her room before she makes too big of a fool of herself. There are also designated drivers from the fraternity at those mixers. They will pick up and drop off the girls, and it’s usually the new pledges who get the honor. If they catch those drivers drinking, then there won’t be any mixers in the future. At D1’s sorority formal events that are off campus they usually rent a bus to get people to and from, instead of letting people drive. Yes, there is definitely alcohol involved in Greek life. But I feel it is safer than freshman year when there were big blow out parties, and she had to get to and from those parties by herself, at least now she is going with a group of people she knows.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, thank you for those kind words. To be honest, your posts have me quite perplexed.</p>
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<p>At the beginning of this thread you had me convinced that women in midwestern sororities were not so unjustifiably discriminatory as those in southern sororities. Judging young women (or women of any age) primarily, or even the slightest bit, on clothes, presentation and social graces is the sort of bias I object to, every bit as much as judging them on their daddys and mamas and backgrounds that are no fault of their own, just the circumstances into which they were born. Just saying.</p>
<p>poetgrl,
Excuse me, this is a public forum. I don’t need to be invited into your self-chosen “sorority” of responders – if you’re trying to make this thread into a sorority. I publicly replied to an inaccurate statement, which I am qualified to do as a member of College Confidential discussion forum. I did not PM you. I replied, just as any other replier is allowed to do.</p>
<p>So I’ll “leave you alone” (and anyone else “alone”) when you stop stereotyping about mothers you have no knowledge of.</p>
<p>If you want to see some of the downside of sororities, check out the sorority thread in the Vanderbilt forum, where there is a lively discussion of which group recruits the best-looking girls,much talk of “ranking” fraternities and sororities, and people hyperventilating about who will get in where. </p>
<p>I was inclined to have a negative impression of Greeks until I actually became good friends with people in a Greek house at MIT decades ago. They were nice guys, and quite diverse. I must say that the brothers who visited from places like USC in the summer did conform to all of the negative stereotypes. Which goes to show exactly what many people on this thread are saying: not all houses are the same and not all Greek school scenes are the same.</p>
<p>My kid was so frat-averse that he took against at least one school because when we were driving around campus he saw a couple of frat houses. Then a couple of years later he chose to attend a school with a very active frat scene, and now he has decided to pledge one where a number of his friends whom he said he <em>never</em> thought would go Greek have pledged. I’m actually happy about it, because as an introvert at a school with a flexible schedule and no residential college system, I think he could use a little help. And I really don’t care whether people say the house is a “top” or “bottom” house. The hell with that garbage.</p>
<p>So if a girl does not shower or brush her hair or teeth, coughs in your face and takes off her smelly shoes at your table in the dining commons, you would not judge her as being the slightest bit thoughtless and rude?</p>