Disadvantages of joining a sorority?

Parents Forum
301

<p>I don’t remember hearing the term GDI before this thread, but certainly applies to me, and it doesn’t bother me a bit.</p>

<p>There really may not be much like-mindedness in some houses. I would say those are the diverse, multi-cultural places that probably are very similar to a randomly selected residential college.</p>

<p>I wish we could stipulate here that girls inside and outside sororities can all have the same qualities of kindness, scholarship, leadership, friendliness and attractiveness, as well as superficiality, conceit, obnoxiousnes etc. </p>

<p>I think the difference may be how an individual feels about group membership. I totally get that some girls love the camaraderie, feeling of connection and being a part of something with an identity. Other groups can give that too but Greek groups definitely create a strong bond among their members simply through all the rituals, requirements and brand promotion.</p>

<p>On the other extreme there may be people like me who tend to reject being labeled as part of a group and eschew any expectation of loyalty to a group standard. That’s why I don’t like organized religion, argue that political parties shouldn’t exist, and even cringe at patriotism both in the U.S. and my adopted country. I feel group psychology may have had its benefits in evolution, but can be harmful in many situations. In any case, I personally don’t want to be defined by or adhere to the rules of many kinds of groups, and that is probably a tendency in many GDIs.</p>

302

<p>Very good post PSI…I do want all of you to realize that not every school in the SEC or the Big 12 are the same. Some are very, very competitive and some are not as bad. I have NEVER heard of anyone sending gifts to houses before recruitment…to me this would be a very over the top thing to do but hey, maybe I am out of the loop…as for GDI, I have always heard that term from the GDI’s themselves…they are proud to call themselves that.</p>

<p>One other thing…my D is trying to decide between 2 schools in the Big 12. I have looked at both of the Panhellenic registration forms and neither of them have asked anything about Daddy’s bank account. They do discuss the possible costs associated with joining so that parents are well informed before the process.</p>

303

<p>

</p>

<p>And I don’t recall too many “rules” beyond paying one’s dues, attending chapter meetings / eating dinner at the house (which was every Monday night except for reading week and finals week), and then being required to participate in rush (unless excused as a rush counselor) and initiation events, which is only fair. And you had to live in the house as a junior, which was a nice option – the houses were lovely and convenient. The “rules” weren’t any more burdensome or unrealistic than having to attend X number of practices to be on the swim team / choir / debate team.</p>

<p>Wildwood - you said your experience was NU, too, right? IMO, there was a difference between that type of experience where you wore your letters or not depending upon, well, whether your sweatshirt was clean, lol, and the type of experience at College of Charleston where every girl wore the <em>exact same t-shirt on the same day</em> and they looked like members of a unified club. I too would be put off by that type of “uniformity.”</p>

304

<p>

</p>

<p>Sorry, but those are a lot of rules to me. :p</p>

<p>I’m not saying sororities make you go in uniform, and I’m not dissing that there is an identity. That’s fine, and some people want to be a part of that. It just wasn’t for me.</p>

305

<p>

</p>

<p>If I met a young woman with the behaviors above, I would either (1) think she came from a family background that did not teach her this was generally considered socially unacceptable or (2) think she knew exactly what she was doing. If it is (1) I would never want to exclude her from the sorority on that basis alone because I don’t want to consider family background as an important part of the admissions process. If it is (2) I am going to personally be fascinated and absolutely want to know why she is choosing to present herself in that way. </p>

<p>Coincidentally I know several young woman who fit the second category and it has been pretty interesting watching their development the last few years.</p>

<hr>

<p>All sororities are elitist. Maybe a Midwestern sorority that decides to accept girls for the right reasons is less elitist than a Southern sorority that decides for the wrong reasons. Maybe middle class Midwestern sorority women are overall less elitist than middle class Southern sorority women, but I am not really seeing it. Once you create an exclusionary group it is the same end result… whether it is a sorority at NU or an Ivy secret society or eating club. It is just a matter of degree of exclusivity. </p>

<p>After leaving sorority, I have never joined another exclusionary social group. The sorority is enough for the rest of this life and probably the next couple :wink: I wouldn’t even belong to a mommy and me group if we were going to turn people away. So we rented a bigger space. But I am absolutely fine with others belonging to such groups. I don’t think these groups are immoral or anything like that. My choice doesn’t have to be anyone elses. I write sorority recs. But I think it is wise for those without firsthand experience to do some investigating before going through the process. IMO this thread has provided some wonderful pov’s on this experience. I still love the completely impractical idea of randomly assigning pledge classes. But even in that case it is still an elitist group, since not everyone has equal access. At the very least you have to be in college and able to afford the dues (or be eligible for scholarship help). In the eyes of many, college women, regardless of college, are a very privileged class. </p>

<p>IMHO you can make a sensible decision whether you want to join a sorority based on the norms at the college you attend. However, once you join you are part of a national organization. That is what you sign up for. The powers-that-be explain that very clearly. You pay national dues. You get a national newsletter. Whether you like it or not you are part of a group that usually includes chapters all over the country. If certain behaviors disturb you greatly, you need to take that into account. Because you are signing up to be sisters with everyone in that group.</p>

<p>I believe there a few goups that are not national organizations.</p>

<p>and lastly, IMHO, one of the themes of Legally Blonde was women supporting other women. I love that movie.</p>

306

<p>

</p>

<p>Great answer alh! But Bay, you can’t equate not being clothes-conscious and a disinterest in primping with bad hygiene and crude behavior!</p>

307

<p>“In post #261, poetgrl casually refers to non-greeks as “GDIs”. Am I mistaken in thinking this means “god-d@mned independent”? Is that how sorority girls talk about girls who don’t care to join?”</p>

<p>You are exactly correct in thinking that is what it stands for, but I’ve only heard the fraternities use that term, the girls think it is too crude, its more a boys term.</p>

308

<p>I went to a Greek-heavy college (midwest) in the early 80s–I was a GDI. We called ourselves that–some people even had “GDI” t-shirts. Even then it wasn’t a new expression. It was a way for non-greeks to say “I’m beyond that, I’m independent, I don’t need to buy some “sisters/brothers”. . .” Not at all an insult.
I’m sort of a loner and some suggested that I join a sorority so I could get into the social scene more. But I had no interest, and no $. </p>

<p>I think the disadvantage of sororities is the reputation that goes along with them. And I say this as an outside observer. Non-Greeks watch Greeks on campus–sort of like people watch celebrities. The Greeks–even if only 25% of students-- seem to be in the center of the action–They have the looks, the $, the fancy parties and they are in “exclusive” clubs that we GDI’s probably couldn’t get into if we tried. So yes, there is some of that envy, or looking to figure out what THEY’VE got that we haven’t got.
Not that Greeks should care what GDI’s think. But they should be aware of the impression they’re making.</p>

<p>Greeks look like they are having a lot of fun. Maybe they are making connections with the “right kind of people.” A lot of the members seemed to be wealthy, well-dressed, classy girls, smart and polite, too. They did a lot of fundraisers for charities. But some of them had bad reputations–sleazy, drunk, shallow, catty, mean-girlish stuff, and all that anorexia/bulemia! They had some silly rituals that it was hard to take seriously. It was generally observed that certain “types” joined certain sororities. One group was all tall brunettes. Another–academic sorts. Another short cute blondes. And there were even a couple for the overweight girls with acne (with mean nicknames that I won’t repeat). My sister rushed and was invited to join one of these “unpopular” groups, but preferred to remain a GDI. My freshman roommate rushed, and I was there when the “rush guide” told she had NO invitations after only the 2nd round of parties. A sad way to start freshman year. This girl was very attractive, nice/fun/outgoing. I could see no reason why she was cut–maybe because she worked in the dining hall? Maybe she didn’t have perfect manners or her clothes weren’t quite right? Her best friends got into some of the “top” sororities–and they all still hung out. One of my closest friends was a sorority girl. She liked it the first two years, but after that she sort of outgrew it and didn’t have a lot of time for the activities–I think a lot of girls were like that. It was useful at first to get established at a big school, but after the first couple years the sorority wasn’t as useful to them anymore.</p>

309

<p>I read the book “Pledged”. I have been out of college for many years so I can’t comment on how accurate the author’s depiction of the college women was, but I did notice that she seemed to focus on a small group women in one chapter in one school. Because the experience varies so widely, I thought it was pretty negative. Also, I was a little appalled at some of the behavior of the particular women profiled, but I can’t say that the things they did were specific to sorority members, or just college students in general these days.</p>

<p>I do know that her depiction of the sorority alumnae club did not in any way, shape or form resemble the clubs I have been a part of and currently am in. The women I have met do not fit her stereotype at all. I have met all sorts of women with all sorts of backgrounds and lives through my alumnae club membership. </p>

<p>I sensed an “agenda” when I read this book. But that’s what sells.</p>

310

<p>NPC is National Panhellenic, NPHC is National Pan-Hellenic (Divine Nine).</p>

<p>There are a few NPHC collegiate chapters with houses; for example, the AKAs have a house on Sorority Row at Alabama.</p>

311

<p>

</p>

<p>If I met such a young woman, I would probably think neither of those things. This would be below the minimum social standard for any family. I’d think this young woman had some fairly serious mental disorder such as schizophrenia, an autism spectrum disorder or retardation. I’d figure she had worse problems than bad grooming. I definitely wouldn’t think she was thoughtless or rude; instead, I’d think she was for some reason oblivious to the impression she was creating.</p>

312

<p>If this young woman grew up in a non-cave in America, watched TV and was smart enough to be admitted to college, the “family background” excuse would be a very tough sell for me. And if she knew exactly what she was doing, then I would most definitely consider her thoughtless and rude, and would absolutely not want her for a future roommate.</p>

313

<p>It’s been so interesting reading this thread, and it’s forced me to clarify in my own mind exactly why I have such discomfort with the concept of sororities. I think it all comes down to my impression of how the process of determinng who’s in and who’s out might work. I just see a small group of girls sitting around a table making pronouncements about people they barely know: “She seemed like fun; she was too quiet; we have too many Communications majors already.” Or worse: “She dresses kinda Goth; I couldn’t understand her accent; I loved her Coach bag!” I think that’s the aspect many of us find distasteful. I can’t imagine being on the selection committee and making those kind of determinations, and I don’t think I’d want my D in that position. Can someone who has been on the inside of that process give me some insight on how it plays out and what it’s like?</p>

314

<p>It is true that a girl is “evaluated” and I appreciate that that makes people uncomfortable. However, at least where I was, without giving away too many inside secrets, it’s not the free-for-all that some are envisioning. When discussing rushees, it was a structured environment and the intent was to treat everyone with respect.</p>

<p>Physical appearance or dress was off limits except for identification purposes to jog someone’s memory (example: “she was the girl with long brown hair in a ponytail who was wearing a red dress and was sitting by the fireplace next to Suzy”). No discussion of things like makeup, jewelry, handbags, shoes, designer labels, etc. </p>

<p>The context of discussing her was not about the particulars of what she revealed about herself (e.g., she’s from Seattle, she likes to ski, she’s a communication major, her parents own a condo in Aspen, whatever). No one cared where she was from geographically, there was no “quota” for communication majors, and there was absolutely never any “what do you think her family makes.” </p>

<p>The evaluation was her personality as communicated in the context of the setting. Was this someone you’d like to know better? That you’d feel comfortable with? That you could see as a friend / hanging around with? </p>

<p>Comments were descriptive in nature, not evaluative. And they could only be based on direct interaction, not impressions. And no one “piled on.” If the consensus was that the house wasn’t interested in a particular girl, then that was noted and everyone moved on. It wasn’t a *****fest to rip her apart.</p>

<p>If girls knew her from another context, they might be able to comment on that, but again, in the context of her personality. Not “She stole my boyfriend” or “She’s a slut” or even “She’s in my French class.”</p>

<p>The process was actually startingly like when you’re in business and you’re interviewing / reviewing multiple candidates for a position, and you have a structured way of going through them and evaluating whether you think they fit with your organization. Just like in the business world, you don’t “cut” potential candidates with glee, just like in the college admissions world, you don’t “cut” applicants with glee, you don’t “cut” rushees with glee. It’s just that you’re going to prefer some over others.</p>

<p>Actually, it might even be analogous to how a well-run admissions department at the college operates. Here are the parameters we’re going to discuss – here are the things that we’re not going to discuss … Let’s do this in a structured fashion, with respect, and at the end of the day, here’s our list.</p>

<p>I hope this helps assuage some fears. That’s not to say girls couldn’t get hurt or there weren’t hurt feelings – especially when some girls really liked a given rushee and other girls really didn’t, and there were disputes – but it was NOT a free-for-all let’s-all-pile-on-and-say-nasty-things-fest.</p>

<p>To your specific scenario: “She dresses kinda Goth; I couldn’t understand her accent; I loved her Coach bag!” – none of those would have been said in the evaluation process (though it’s possible that Goth dress could have been pointed out, I suppose, but only in the context of an identifying characteristic for someone who didn’t recall the girl. And it would have been described neutrally, as in “she was wearing a dark cloak and a large silver cross”, not “she was too Goth”).</p>

315

<p>

</p>

<p>No, you may “not have meant” to hijack, but you did mean to distort, thoroughly. Did I say I specifically searched for people I did not get along with, just for the experience of getting our kids together? I think you’re the rather bizarre one, if you think that I live in a mental world like that. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Rather, I have had situations where my children already had established close friendships, but for some reason there was friction between that mother and myself. I didn’t refuse my children the right to continue friendships because of adult disagreements. Nor did I ever construct playdates with children whom mine were not particularly fond of, just in order to socialize with another mother at my and her convenience. That’s what I meant, and I would think that for most people that would be rather obvious.</p>

316

<p>MommaJ, although it has been many many years since I was on the inside of the rush process, I can assure you that it was not about any of the things that you listed in your post. It’s unfortunate that these perceptions persist, e.g., that members are chosen on the basis of things like major, personal style, accent or handbag. I was actively involved in the rush process for my chapter, and can tell you that we extended invitations and bids to many more girls compared with those who accepted, because the rushees in turn also were selecting and eliminating sororities. The selection process is not one-sided, as has been noted in an earlier post. </p>

<p>At the risk of repeating what has already been eloquently stated on this thread, those who are considering the Greek system need to evaluate it based on his/her own campus culture, individual chapters, time/financial commitment, etc. Sororities are organizations that involve social, philanthropic, financial and sometimes residential aspects. Like any organization, I would suspect that one is more likely to benefit from membership if one feels more involved and aligned with its goals and values.</p>

317

<p>My memory is somewhat foggy, but I do remember that discussions about rushees were general, as PG describes. Our house had (and I assume all do,) a national guideline for evaluation that really obviates the need for any catty comments at all. I want to say that the guidelines are actually quite similar to college admissions evaluations that utilize the “holistic” process.</p>

<p>I do think that there are instances where girls are unfairly cut because they were not lucky enough to meet enough girls in the house or to meet the ones who might have clicked with them best. Not everyone in the house is the same, nor can everyone (on both sides) be skilled enough to carry on a comfortable conversation with everyone. So that girl might end up further down on the list out of sheer bad luck.</p>

<p>I do also remember rare (and I emphasize rare) instances where a rushee might have in fact seriously hurt the feelings of a girl in the house in a previous encounter and of course the rest of the house will take the side of their sister over the rushee. I don’t think those instances can be avoided in human nature.</p>

318

<p>I guess that even though I was a chapter advisor & a pledge training advisor for a collegiate chapter of a national sorority, I must not know much. I sure do not recall family background, what a girl wore, or who she was friends with being topics of conversation during discussions regarding bids. Yes, it was actually something on the list of stuff we could look at … we just did not do that. Our young ladies looked for other young women who seemed interested in being a part of the group, who appeared to enjoy the types of things this group stood for/engaged in /etc. In other words, who seemed to “click” (not “clique”) with a bunch of girls in the group. While bids had to be unanimous, there was no negative discussion … rather, discussion focused on the positives girls felt about one another. There were always more girls our members would like to have invited to join than they were allowed to ask to join the group due to panhell rules (an issue for older members of this group, as it had begun originally as part of a national social sorority, not a panhellenic sorority). But this was explained upfront to those rushing … it was kind of like when a kid could only invite X number of kids to the birthday party. </p>

<p>Some folks are up for this, others are not. Some folks want to be in a sorority & are not extended a bid. Some folks would rather eat glass than be a part of anything to do with something like rush (like my kid - just doesn’t see the rhyme or reason to any of it). But sororities do not ALWAYS “judge” in the negative sense of that word. We do all judge, each and every day, and it is not always a terrible thing. Just my two cents.</p>

319

<p>

</p>

<p>Geez, why the vitriol? Take a breath. </p>

<p>You specifically said a “real mother” arranges playdates with other mothers regardless of their feelings about each other and even went on to say even if you are “feuding” with those moms. I disagree that a mom who decides to pass on a playdate with a mom with whom she is having a “feud” is not a “real mother.” There are plenty of nice kids to play with without having to send one’s child to a home with open hostility between moms in place. If you want to hang out in a play group or send your child to play at a house with a Mom whom you not only dislike but are “feuding” with (hey, your words) that’s fine, but to suggest that others not comfortable with that scenario are not “real” moms is bizarre to me, and obviously I wasn’t the only one who had that reaction.</p>

<p>Back to sorority row.</p>

<p>As to how sororities choose their members, whenever I’ve asked about it, I have received a firm “that’s secret information.” Even sorority alums whose daughters have been cut from their own sorority would get that same answer, from what I’ve heard.</p>

320

<p>Well, back to the OP’s question re: negatives you might not be aware of when rushing/pledging…
D is in the middle of pledging right now. She would say the time factor is the biggest drawback. There are many , many pledging events. I think she said there was one free night last week. Not all of these events are parties. Sunday was a workshop on their philanthropic events, last night was a scavenger hunt. OTOH, her pledge sister has been very accomodating when D wants to skip or duck out of an event. So , so far, so good…</p>