<p>^ Again, post 319 thoroughly and deliberately mischaracterized my previous remark. I respond strongly to a deliberate inaccurate manipulation of language on the part of someone who is clearly trying to distort the message of a contributor. Post 319 goes even further in that regard than the previous reply did. I said nothing about “going out of my way” (your words) to arrange for playdates with children whose parents (and I) may have been temporarily having a difficult time. That’s all I said. I said that it was the children’s friendships that dictated play dates, which I again insist would be the priority of a real mother, not one absorbed in her own needs, using her children to satisfy those. I didn’t talk about “open hostility.” That’s your (again, deliberate) restructuring of what I said. The notion that any mother would be so emotionally stunted as to do such a thing is utterly your fabrication – a straw man that you are still arguing for some psychological benefit known only to you.</p>
<p>I did react, and will react, to intellectual dishonesty in a debate. You’ve done it now for a second time, so if you don’t want people to react strongly to having their words and clearly their meaning, distorted, then don’t distort. It’s really very simple.</p>
<p>I reacted strongly earlier, and will react strongly, to precise words written on a page indicating that literally mothers arrange play dates to suit their own social needs, as opposed to the needs of their children. That notion is completely foreign to me. It would never occur to me to do that, so if that poster, or any other, chose to select & promote their children’s friends based on adult friendships, they need to speak for themselves, rather than to speak for “mothers” generically. Not only did I never do that, not a single one of my genuine friends who were mothers ever did that. So apparently I am the one not alone here.</p>
<p>Just FYI: dictionary skills are great things. “Feud” is used in a variety of dimensions, from tame & temporary, to permanent and destructive. Even best friends have feuds. Spouses have feuds. Mine was obviously meant in a mild context. I said absolutely nothing about going out of way, and you know it. So again, I will react to dishonesty in debate, and if you don’t want a reaction, then don’t engage in that.</p>
<p>Woody, as your daughter and my daughter are at the same school, I will tell a funny story of D1. They don’t do hazing, but they do play jokes on babies. D1’s secret big sister got a brother from a fraternity to in on it with her. They got 2 new frat pledges to set up a blow up pool with palm trees in D1’s room, and the pledges were required to wear bathing suits(Speedo) sitting in the pool to take a picture with D1. Since they were smart college boys they actually called around to find out D1’s schedule so they wouldn’t have to wait around for too long. The ETA was 4pm (all her friends assured them that D1 was habitual), except that day she stopped off at a friend’s room for a visit. She didn’t get back to her room until 5:30pm. Needless to say she was totally shocked to see a pool filled with water and 2 guys practically naked in her room. Everyone on her floor came to see the pool. They ate all of her food while they were waiting for her (cleaned out her refridge). They got their pictures and left. D1 was stuck with emptying the pool.</p>
<p>Oh, that sounds just great, oldfort!! I think I’ll keep this one to myself… (Actually, I’ve been wondering if they are in the same sorority, hmmm…)</p>
<p>Epiphany, not that I have any interest in engaging in another one of these bizarre conversations with you, but since you insist on mischaracterizing my original post, as well as taking it out of context, when our children are young, very young, we set up the playdates for them. Most of us chose to do so with people WE were friendly with and enjoyed.</p>
<p>For some of our children, these turned out to thier friends.</p>
<p>I didn’t “set up” playdates for my children as they got older. I just accomodated whichever ones my D’s asked for, which usually had to do with the girls asking for these themselves.</p>
<p>I also believe you chose to send your children to private school. Do you think that in doing this you did not influence or have something to do with who thier friends turned out to be? :rolleyes: Honestly, you make no sense to me.</p>
<p>You say, “none of my genuine friends…” See, now you are contradicting yourself, as you are referencing YOUR friends.</p>
<p>The context of this statement was in regards to the bizarre idea that freindships happen arbitrarily and the somehow sororities are gross misrepresentations of how real life freindships occur. My contention is that they are not.</p>
<p>You may agree or disagree, obviously, as you are much more of a “real” mother than I will apparently ever be. </p>
<p>OT: Legally Blonde And just because it really is one of my favorite movies, though Dogma holds spot number one.</p>
<p>In some ways this is the ultimate fantasy of sorority life.* It is a house of happy, like-minded women with similar interests and life goals. And they are genuinely concerned and supportive of each other. We may not condone (and may well criticize!) such interests and goals, but these women are very comfortable with who they are and also more than capable of defending themselves in the face of stereotyping. This is made very clear in the beginning of the movie with the “shopping-for-the-perfect-dress-for-my-proposal” scene where Elle sets the condescending sales woman straight and lets her know she isn’t quite the bubble-headed ditz she appears to an unperceptive observer. In this sorority, when one of their members decides to abruptly change course and apply to law school, they switch into high gear to help her study for the LSAT. (confession: this had me almost rolling in the aisle, reminding me so much of several sorority sisters in the ‘70’s pushing their Cosmos off the bed senior year to make room for all the paper work necessary for their own law school applications.) And I loved the extreme comic example of a woman so determined to get her man that she will to to any length, endure any hardship – even if it means having to go to Harvard Law School. :eek: (again, the first sorority sister that headed to an ivy graduate program left the rest of us in puzzled bafflement as to why in the world she would want to go to the ends of the earth—we could have at least understood if she was husband hunting ) ** Although Elle is inexcusably catty about her ex’s fianc</p>
<p>Huh. When my twins were young, I joined a mothers of twins club (another exclusive sorority, LOL) and arranged playdates with the mothers for whom I took a liking. Those were most certainly “playdates” as our 3 or 4 yo twins would all play with one another while we had coffee and visited. And it most certainly was for my own social needs / needing to get out of the house, because my twins could certainly play with one another at home, but <em>I</em> wanted some adult company.</p>
<p>Later on, friends of mine (most of whom actually were NU sorority sisters of mine, LOL) arranged what we called “Second Saturdays.” The second Saturday of every month, we would meet at a child-friendly venue – zoo, children’s museum, pumpkin patch, etc. and all of the children would do the activity together. There were probably 10-12 kids, ranging in age from, say, 1 to 7. We would take turns choosing the venue and arranging the details. These playdates were for <em>our</em> benefit so we could catch up with one another.</p>
<p>Arranging playdates with mothers that you are friendly with is not inconsistent with “selecting and promoting your child’s friends based on adult friendships.” As a young girl, I remember my mother getting together with her girlfriends and I’d play with their kids. It was hardly an awful thing or indicative of “friendships being chosen for us.” I daresay what I’m describing is pretty darn normal and commonplace. </p>
<p>But whatever. I guess we weren’t “real mothers” or something because we dared to have our own friends, too. You win the motherhood sweepstakes, epiphany. Congrats!</p>
<p>The concept that parents who socialize and expect their little children to play together while they do so are warped in some way is so far-fetched that I really can’t believe that that’s what Epiphany meant.</p>
<p>alh, I will definitely try to watch that movie again soon. I remember enjoying it but thinking at the time that it was silly in it’s lack of realism. I told my friend who went with me that I was glad my (still young and impressionable) girls had not seen it with us as it might have given them the wrong idea about what it takes to get into Harvard Law, from where their aunt graduated, or reach any other high academic level.</p>
<p>I realize with your review, that I might have given short shrift to the message of the movie and my impression of it was colored by my own stereotyping.</p>
<p>From the beginning of this thread it has been my assumption that all the adults, and especially the sorority alums, were posting for the benefit of this hypothetical girl so that, if she is reading, she has an insider’s view of a system that may put her at distinct disadvantage. My hope would be that our experiences, although in my case seriously outdated, might help her negotiate that system successfully – even down to the necessity of recs for some sororities in some areas of the country – if she still wants to rush after reading the entire thread. Pizzagirl: I am every bit as concerned as you are about this girl showing up unprepared for the realities of a competitive recruitment experience. I apologize if my posts did not make that clear earlier. At least in my case, you are preaching to the choir And I would have absolutely loved to have been in the sorority chapter you describe. If there is any way to change what you righteously object to about the system, I am right there with you!</p>
<p>I’m just that kind of hypocritical southern belle who constantly criticizes where she’s from but just can’t stand those awful yankees doing the same thing.</p>
<p>Thanks for your sweet comment, Wildwood. BTW I spent most of my adult life, after fleeing the south and sorority as fast as I could :eek: in a seriously <em>ivy</em> kind of environment and also lived off and on abroad - which I think you may have alluded to yourself?</p>
<p>I was a first generation, blue collar girl from East Nowheresville who joined the largest sorority in the country, and I’m sure there were no recs for me.</p>
<p>I mentioned in a previous post that I was from a very small town (Nowheresvelle, too small to have an East side), and I was a cc transfer. My mom did not attend college (my dad did but didn’t graduate). I had no relatives who were sorority members. Did I mention that one summer in my college years I worked in a factory because it was the only summer job I could find? ( and I was not the only sorority member working there, I might add).</p>
<p>I knew virtually nothing about the Greek system when I started college.</p>
<p>I am a member of one of the largest national sororities.</p>
<p>yes, alh. I moved to Europe after college, met my now husband, and stayed to raise a family. I’m originally from the east, then spent four years at NU (two above the Sherman Snack Shop, PG )</p>
<p>The reason why sorority sisters and alums cannot or do not divulge exactly what goes on during recruitment meetings is simple: It is different from house to house, school to school. But again, I will chance to say that no house has long drawn out dissertations on any girl. It can be 3 a.m…people want sleep. Oh, and there is something called discretion.</p>
<p>It sounds from this thread that the southern colleges have a much more formal rush process than others. My D will be attending a southern LAC in the fall and plans to join a sorority. This thread has been helpful but has me a little concerned about the process, particularly the comments about the time commitment needed in their freshman year when they are still adjusting to college life and academics. I am also hoping that her status as a “yankee”, as someone else mentioned earlier, is a non factor. Is the formalities of rush limited to the larger SEC colleges or is it a southern culture thing that runs across all colleges, public and private?</p>
<p>Also, I am wondering what impact the economy has had on recruitment. If the students have to pay an additional fee per semester, has it reduced the number of pledges? Just curious. Thanks!</p>
<p>My daughter rushed/joined this year. The time commitment was not difficult to manage. I imagine that some girls spent more and less time there. As for economy and recruitment: I don’t believe that it has had any effect on recruitment. I know that some universities were concerned about that.</p>
<p>As for southern recruitment, I can’t answer that directly. We are in a different part of the US. I would go to GreekChat.com and search for your daughter’s school. See what information that they have specifically for the school and in general. But I can say that being prepared helps.</p>
<p>LOL. Hey, anyone who raises two babies at once should get a medal of honor as far as I’m concerned. I wouldn’t need a playgroup, I 'd need a sedative.</p>
<p>What I am reading is that during rush girls are not judged on crass superficialities like where she is from, her family background/wealth, or appearance (within reason). But really then how effective can the rush process be? How well can you get to know someone during a series of parties? </p>
<p>Why not just get rid of rush and let everyone in? Or if there are practical constraints (like we can’t handle more than x members), why not have a lottery?</p>
<p>If it were a “lottery process” then it wouldn’t be a sorority…a sorority is not the same as a volunteer committee that accepts anyone, it is a club, and clubs have enrollment processes, superficial as it may be. That is why many of the colleges have gone to 2nd semester rush, so the girls can get to know the sororities and vice versa. It is helpful. For the big state schools where rush is the first week 1st semester, it is harder, no question, and more superficial. Of course, no one is req’d to BE in a sorority. It’s every girl’s choice.</p>
<p>feud 1 (fyd)
n.
A bitter, often prolonged quarrel or state of enmity, especially such a state of hostilities between two families or clans.
intr.v. feud·ed, feud·ing, feuds
To carry on or perpetuate a bitter quarrel or state of enmity.</p>
<p>I’ve never engaged in a feud with any friend. Based on the vicious tone of your posts, I’m not surprised to read that you have. Feel free to throw another tantrum. I couldn’t care less. Internet bullies do not intimidate me in the least.</p>
) ** Although Elle is inexcusably catty about her ex’s fianc</p>
And I would have absolutely loved to have been in the sorority chapter you describe. If there is any way to change what you righteously object to about the system, I am right there with you!</p>