<p>Nope, I can’t say I have since 8th grade. Of course how can I know why someone isn’t a friend of mine of course, but I would assume it was to do with my personality or political leanings, not due to jealousy, my clothing choices, or who I hung out with. I’ve never been privvy to a conversation like this with my friends. Even my teen daughter doesn’t have this experience. </p>
<p>Maybe my social world is just different. As a professor in a male dominant field, my circle of friends are adult nerds who were former nerds. My duaghter and her friends are likewise intellectual nerds. My friends are mainly women with PhDs, who live around the world, juggling parenting, their labs and lab teams, and serving as deans and in other administrative roles. Our discussions are around people’s findings and publications, or world events, or college news, or the tribulations of parenting. You couldn’t get more far removed from things like handbag labels, boob jobs, house decor or boyfriends.</p>
<p>Like mimimomx3, I was at UT in the early 80s. I’ll never forget how crushed some of the girls were who weren’t accepted into the sorority they wanted. One girl even dropped out of school immediately! My Chi Omega roommate was always occupied doing busywork (painting paddles??). She made me her personal “makeover” project, even though I was quite happy with myself. My dorm was about 60% sorority girls - I had fun observing the craziness. I was also too GDI, I guess!</p>
<p>So, in addition to the cost, time commitment and possible reputation-of-sorority-affecting you personally, I can only think of one other disadvantage and that is the possible hit your D’s self esteem could take if/when dropped by one or more sororities she’s interested in. My D just went through freshman rush (I love that it’s second semester). She entered her freshman year unsure but decided to rush to meet more people–fortunately she has made lots of friends but they all seem to be on her floor. She started off rushing with 6 friends …three pledged. D got into one of her first choices so was pretty easily able to shake off the sting of being dropped from another that she was interested in but two other girls (of the four who didn’t pledge) were dropped by all that they’d consider. Yes, they did still have options but, whatever their reasons, did not want to pursue the remaining houses. They are both feeling pretty low–I’m sure they’ll be fine but resilience is a quality I’d recommend for those choosing to go through rush.</p>
<p>In terms of the time commitment, D feels that it will be reasonable in the future but the sorority places top priority on getting to know the other girls quickly. D has about 2 weeks to have one on one get togethers with almost 50 “sisters”. These can not be 10 minute coffee dates…they’re supposed to be meals, work outs, shopping dates, etc. It doesn’t even seem like there are enough hours in the day! D says that it’s stressful but that it really does force you to get to know the girls which she agrees is important…it’s only been a few weeks but D already loves that she knows so many more people around campus than she did before and feels confidant that rushing/pledging is the right decision for her. Oh, also, her house is physically small so no option/requirement to live in. She’ll live with one “sister” (currently on her floor) and 7 other non-Greeks in a suite sophmore year. Definitely will continue to have non-Greek friends.</p>
<p>I was in a sorority in the early/mid 70s - Chi Omega - and, believe me, there were no makeovers. We wore hip huggers, tube tops, halter tops and my favorite shoes were Red Wing work boots. I did have a paddle with an owl on it but I’m pretty sure I didn’t do with what was expected if I was supposed to paint it. </p>
<p>We didn’t dress up in heels and dresses for rush and very few of my friends wore makeup. I don’t know whether I would have joined a sorority had I witnesses some of the things mentioned on this thread. I know I wouldn’t have joined had it meant buying a new wardrobe. Things were very different in the 70’s anyway, but it may have also been because the campus was only about 20% Greek so we weren’t too full of ourselves.</p>
<p>I’m really enjoying this thread. Surprisingly. I hadn’t thought about my sorority from the time I left college until reconnecting with sisters on FB. But it is a connection and it IS a positive thing – even though I have a wonderful group of women friends now.</p>
<p>It was especially fun running into PizzaGirl here! Love her insights, which mirror my recollections. We actually have a lot of NU people in common (thru a fraternity - LOL!). And, for the record - I’m not a lot older! We were at college at the same time!</p>
<p>I’m going to stick to my own philosophy when it comes to my D. She has done a great job picking her friends at school and at summer camp. I trust her judgement with people. If she does end up rushing, I will talk to her about the process as I remember it. Just like I would give her the heads up on any new experience. Hey, we made it through middle school =mean girls), through the first boyfriend (and first break-up)… we can do this.</p>
<p>With all this chatter, I’m kind of excited now to see what my D decides to do. Of course, we still have to figure out which college she will be going to…</p>
<p>@@ Um, the majority of us at Northwestern were kind of nerds in high school too. @@ We weren’t discussing handbag labels or boob jobs. Maybe boyfriends, but that seems pretty normal for 18 year old girls.</p>
<p>The idea that a disabled girl couldn’t get in is repulsive. There would be no reason that a girl who had a physical disability, used braces, whatever, wouldn’t be welcome. There were always a few rushees here and there who might have been on crutches, had a broken arm, whatever. No one cared. Again, you are envisioning some kind of stupid Legally Blonde world.</p>
<p>With all due respect to your sorority experience, Pizzagirl, UT Austin in the early 80s was exactly that. I never knew of one Hispanic or AA sorority member. I sure hope someone will step forward and correct that impression! I’m hoping that diversity has arrived at UT’s greek system in 2010.</p>
<p>Wis75, there were 120 of us. LINYMOM and I were friendly, but we only overlapped by 2 years and we weren’t BFF’s. She also moved back east after graduation. I don’t know what you think it means that we didn’t have any contact until recently on FB / here. I couldn’t humanly keep up with 120 other people who have scattered all over the country, if not the world. Especially since we came of age before FB and other electronic means. </p>
<p>I did find lifelong friends through my sorority. I think of the women who stood up for me at my wedding, who threw me wedding and baby showers, who rejoiced with me at job promotions and cried with me when my twins were born prematurely and very ill, who helped one another through the days of having small children, who did the 3-day breast cancer walk with me, whose parents’ funerals I attended and cried with them … these were my sorority sisters. I am still close with several of them over the years. I don’t see what having a more “distant” relationship with LINYMOM has anything to do with it or is seen as damning evidence of something. </p>
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<p>You’re right. No one in the Greek system expects someone who isn’t in the Greek system to particularly care about it. Why would you think otherwise?</p>
<p>This is kind of ironic. The non-Greeks are talking about stereotypes more than those who went Greek! All your friends are “adult nerds?” </p>
<p>Designer bags? Boob jobs? In all due respect, I do not think you know what you are talking about. If you knew Greeks who talked about these things, it’s because that’s what they were interested in, not because they were in a sorority!</p>
<p>Sorority girls make decisions based on catty things? Excuse me, but many, many girls make decisions on catty things! LOL.</p>
<p>IMO, this is like the conversation with someone who went to a HS that had one race, one religion, etc. They are very judgemental and prejudice about others who don’t look like them or pray like them because they have had no interaction. Those who grow up in a diverse environment are more tolerant and look inside of people, making decisions about the individuals on important things like character and values. </p>
<p>If you go back to the original question, I think that collage1’s post about her D’s experience hit the nail on the head.</p>
<p>Well, in all fairness, we probably did talk about Bermuda bags because that was the preppy style of the times, LOL. But those were often homemade!</p>
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<p>Yes. The Jewish fraternity – which included my H, one of his best friends who was Thai, and LINYMOM’s and my mutual friend who is African-American and was the president of the house. Our house also had a Hispanic president who is LINYMOM’s age, and an AA president the year after I graduated. Just so not a big deal to anyone. I was at the house recently for an event and saw girls of all different ethnic backgrounds. They chose one another because they <em>liked</em> one another, not because they were auditioning Reese Witherspoon clones.</p>
<p>cartera - you were at W&M, correct? My best friend from high school went to SMU, went through rush, found that horrible, superficial-what-does-your-daddy-make, if-you-don’t-get-into-a-house-drop-out-of-school culture. She was horrified and wound up transferring to W&M where she joined Theta and had a <em>completely</em> different experience, because the Thetas at SMU wouldn’t have given her the time of day. Different schools. Different cultures. </p>
<p>The fact that the people who are reporting the most negative experiences are often recounting experiences from big Southern schools isn’t lost on me. It’s a completely different experience and culture.</p>
<p>“You say that doesn’t happen now? How many fat girls are in your daughters’ sororities, posters? How many disabled girls? How many unattractive girls? As far as looks are concerned, do you think your daughter’s sorority sisters are about as attractive as the average young woman on campus, or are they considerably prettier?”</p>
<p>I can honestly say the greek system at my school was diverse. There were heavier girls, girls who were in wheelchairs, girls with hearing problems, etc. These girls weren’t all in one sorority, either, they were spread out across the board. If you put a bunch of girls from my university in one room, I don’t think you’d be able to pick out which were in a sorority and which were not.</p>
<p>The most interesting part of the article alh mentions is how members of the other fraternities and sororities reacted. They were appalled that the Delta Zeta national headquarters threw out sorority sisters at DePauw, allegedly because they were fat, ugly or not white. </p>
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<p>Stupid Delta Zeta. They should never have accepted those fatties and the girls who were the wrong color. Then they would have had no problem. What a foolish mistake.</p>
<p>There will always be horror stories like that and, being in the greek system, I could tell you many more that no one ever hears about, but such is the nature of life. There are good and bad parts to every group you are a part of and every relationship you have. No one likes to think about the reality that sometimes decisions, even ones about who you associate with, are based on what some may call shallow attributes. And if you really think about it, you’ll realize that no one is perfect and we all judge people every day based on how they look, dress, speak etc. There have been so many studies done that indicate that how a person looks is the most important factor in how they are treated in a variety of settings, even in a situation where they are injured. No one wants to believe that they are shallow but we all judge people every day and that does not make you a bad person.
That being said, we want to try to teach young women to value deeper qualities in other people. Sororities (after the initial recruitment process) allow you to get to know other girls from different backgrounds in ways that you never would have otherwise. The biggest positive comment I hear most often from the girls in my sorority is that being in it gave them a chance to be friends with people they never would have thought to give a second look otherwise because they didn’t think they had anything in common with them.
The comment about people who have negative views of the greek system being those who were never in it is very true. You never truly know what its like from the outside, people only hear the bad things that happen every once in a while that get heavy publicity and then they judge all greek life in the same shallow, stereotypical manner that they are so quick to condemn.
One final note about the recruitment process and the qualities they look for in girls who are rushing. Everyone wants to be part of a group they can be proud of. You want the people you are associated with to have positive characteristics across the board, and yes that includes looks and class. Its not the only factor and certainly not the most important, but it would be hopelessly naive to think that we all aren’t judged by these qualities inside and outside of school. You worked hard your whole life so you could get into a good college, you understand that prestige and name do matter later in life. All sororities are different and each girl should be able to find one that is a good fit for her.
Sorry if that was very long-winded, there have been a lot of good points made in this thread by other people!</p>
<p>I joined a sorority at a big 10 school in the early '80’s. Perhaps one of the disadvantages of joining a sorority is the possibility that you may have to continue to justify/defend this decision and to contradict stereotypes about the greek system for the rest of your life!</p>
<p>Like one of the previous posters, I too am an academic in a largely male-dominated environment. On several occasions, after disclosing that I was in a sorority in college, colleagues have said, “I can’t believe you were in a sorority!” I assume this is because they couldn’t reconcile someone being a nerdy/academic achiever with their perception of a typical sorority girl. i doubt that my colleagues would have had a similar reaction if I had disclosed that I was a member of the softball team, the choir, the theater club or any other volunteer organization. I do live in the south now, so perhaps that stereotype should not be surprising. OTOH, in past years I have done volunteer work with a local university chapter of my sorority and didn’t find the young women in that chapter to be anything like the negative stereotypes of southern sorority women that have been expressed on this thread. They were smart, accomplished, motivated women who were interested in attracting new members to sustain and grow their chapter. And, the chapter members included both svelte and not-so-svelte women, as well as women of various ethnicities, religions, etc. It seemed pretty similar to my own expererience in the midwest 20+ years ago.</p>