<p>Lots of varied experiences on this topic. Some adjunct professors, in my experience are better than full-professors A few reasons for that. 1) Research professors are sometimes too wrapped up in their own projects to actually teach anything. 2) Getting a PhD does not require someone to have any teaching experience or education. In those cases a HS teacher is more qualified to actually teach 3) Adjuncts often work in their field while they teach. they can bring practical knowledge that many full-professors are clueless about. My best professors worked outside academia in their field (full and adjunct) </p>
<p>Ultimately, the question comes down to the quality of education for the cost that this particular CC would provide versus the alternatives available. Some actually have the same professors who teach courses at the big schools. (egad!) Living in Texas, I know the CCs are a mixed bag, but the state schools often will transfer in nicely.</p>
<p>Sounds like the OPs child is smart and definitely would qualify for admission to an of the fine Texas universities. UH or TAMU are not too far away (depending upon from which part of the massive Houston area they hail). Costs can be kept down via many scholarships at those schools and you may get the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>I certainly appreciate ‘dad’s’ understanding of why pay huge money for the same courses. Those who think that the teaching of English Comp, or History 101 are significantly better at an ‘institution’ rather than a cc are simply showing their lack of knowledge on the topic. I am sure there are anecdotes either way, but for the basic classes most CC courses are as good as the university equivalent. The difference is the caliber of the peers. That can work to advantage as student may finish on top of CC and get transfer scholarships as well. </p>
<p>All of that being said, I would definitely do the cost analysis and if it is close, go with the four year school. Lots of info needed to really help. If she is undecided as to major…the equation may change.</p>
In my family, my dad had the final say over everything, although he did take my mother’s opinion into consideration most of the time. He was the breadwinner and we lived by the golden rule - he who had the gold make the rules. Lots of families were like this, even in the late 70s/early 80s, and some still are … just sayin’ …</p>
<p>If your daughter wants to go away then I would say keep the family talking about that option. It is such a completely different experience. If she really wants it have her directly talk to her dad and explain why. If she doesn’t care then maybe she isn’t ready for the experience or doesn’t want it. I would take her lead on it, especially since affording it does not appear to be a concern.</p>
<p>I think the Golden Rule is actually, “Do unto others…” In any case, in our home we’re a team. Everyone contributes what they can, and that’s what I teach my children. I wouldn’t want my daughter to feel she doesn’t have control over her own life, or for my son to think he had the right to control someone else’s.</p>
<p>I hope OP considers merit scholarships and keeps discussions with the dad open.</p>
<p>Sounds like your D may have the credentials to not only get into one of your highly regarded public U’s, but also any Honors courses there. She deserves the best education feasible. Consider it a “good, better, best” choice. Sure, the CC may be good but there are much better options for top students. Also- what does she think she wants to major in? That will have a bearing on things. Sciences and engineering will have the most rigorous entry courses available at the top U’s. She will gain a lot more than with the basic calculus, and calculus required sciences. Also- she could be eligible for merit money as well as need based grants at private colleges/U’s.</p>
<p>Get your D to explore four year colleges and apply to them. Do not let her father intimidate her.</p>
<p>@austinmshauri, I think the @bestfriendsgirl was joking about the golden rule. Everyone knows the “real” one, but some people make a joke about it by changing the wording. I have heard it before (and, in fact, my dad was like that, too ).</p>
<p>Nonsense. There is no way that an introductory English or History course aimed at a class where 90% of the students have CR scores over 700 is the same as a class aimed at students whose CR scores fall in the 450-550 range. Particularly if the class has a significant discussion component, and such subjects normally do. (Especially English.)</p>
<p>Perhaps, if you are talking about a CC at the top of the range and an “institution” at the lower end of the range you are correct. If this student is in Texas, isn’t she eligible for UT Austin if she is in the top 5% of her class? Might she not be eligible for an honors program? If that is equivalent to a CC, then UT is not the place it is touted to be.</p>
<p>I think a good strategy would be to figure out as parents how much you can afford/are willing to pay for college. Then see if you can get merit/financial aid and a 4 year school that meets that.</p>
<p>I agree with @Consolation. I don’t care how accomplished or talented a teacher/professor/adjunct is. What matters most is the level of the students in the class. I taught math at a mid tier private. 9 students. Two were outstanding. 6 were middling. One was hopeless. I taught to the middling; I really had no choice. Those two outstanding students aced every exam and I’m sure were rather bored by the whole process in this required-for-the-major class.</p>
<p>A strong point to consider is allowing your child to build a community of like-minded friends through 4 continuous years of living and learning together on a campus. It can be tough to make the effort to make friends at a cc if you know it is a temporary stop on your way to a “real” college. Finding like-minded students who are as academically motivated as you might not be easy. </p>
<p>I would encourage a road trip with all three of you traveling to a number of schools, maybe smaller LACs that have great emphasis on first year experience programs that help students transition to college. Look for places that put the professor/student relationship top priority, so hubby can see that the profs actually teach, learn the students’ names, and are there to help students learn. If hubby balks, you can suggest some tourist stops along the way as well to make it more fun.</p>
<p>And maybe you do end up picking a school that is closer to home, to compromise with your hubby since it seems he might not be ready to let go. But one that your D can live at and find her social circle and spend all 4 years there.</p>
<p>Good luck to you. I feel your stress trying to walk between your husband’s demands and also trying to look out for your D’s best interests. It will not be an easy road for you.</p>
<p>I don’t think that your one experience at the mid tier private is necessarily representative of all schools. Many good CCs actually have honors courses which no one on this forum ever mentions. I doubt that many posters who only know about the mediocre CCs in their own area are even aware of this. I live in an area with an excellent CC which has special programs for high stats students and I believe that those courses are taught at a very high level. These kids have transferred to places like Georgetown, Amherst, Columbia, UVA, and UNC-CH. It depends entirely on the Community College in question and I really wish that posters would stop generalizing based upon limited local experience.</p>
<p>“What matters most is the level of the students in the class.”</p>
<p>Ay men. No good course in the humanities is taught exclusively via lecture. Discussion of and conflict among various viewpoints is the means of instruction. If your classmates didn’t do the reading, didn’t understand it, or don’t care, you can’t get a real humanities education in that class, no matter who the teacher is.</p>
<p>@Joblue Generalizing based upon limited experience goes both ways. We all know that there are in fact CCs–from what I can tell, mostly in California–that offer high level classes to high level HS students. There are also those that cater to those who can barely cut it in lower level HS classes and non-traditional students who are a very mixed bag. I doubt that any of us knows what percentage of CCs falls within each type. Not to mention that there are probably those in the middle. </p>
<p>^^
I don’t disagree about generalizing based on limited experience and in fact I agree that the student under discussion should have the opportunity to explore her options for 4 year universities with her parents and if financially feasible, should go where she wants to go. Given that the OP claims that the CCs in her area (in Texas?) are very good, I just wish that the immediate reaction wasn’t so negative if it turns out that that’s where the student ends up.</p>
<p>By the way, the CC I mentioned is in the Washington DC suburbs and some of the faculty also teach at places like GW and JH.</p>
<p>But needs to sit in classes at her community college, and sit in similar
classes at at least some of the universities in question and compare …</p>
<p>Very likely she could articulate the differences and her preferences
much more easily that way.</p>
<p>Many years ago I still remember as a High School kid sitting in on a class
at Princeton on a college visit. I had never heard anything so amazing
in my life. Hard to forget the difference between that and the classes
at the next college we visited.</p>
<p>Many of the California CCs have the full range of pre-transfer students, whose aspirations range from the least selective to the most selective state universities (CSUs and UCs). I.e. the distribution of student abilities and motivations is likely a lot broader than in a typical four year school (public or private).</p>
<p>For example, here are some CCs whose transfer students went in substantial numbers to both minimally selective (2.0 college GPA to transfer) and highly selective (near-4.0 college GPA and holistic review of essays and the like) state universities:</p>
<p>The forums do appear to have a northeast concentration and bias. Apparently, the state universities are heavily disdained in the northeast, and the community colleges that feed transfer students to them are even more heavily disdained.</p>
<p>My comment about the mid-tier private was more in response to the (IMO) ridiculous idea that just because you have a good teacher, an intro class is more or less the same anywhere you take it. My whole point was that peers are the driving factor. Many people had said that the “professors are just as good” at CC. There’s more to it than that. </p>
<p>^often with reason… when they offer only one (or no) class above the AP level, for instance.
Many community colleges are seen as vocational (training for AS or certificates for specific profession, NOT preparing for transfer) or remedial (students who couldn’t cut it in HS or got D’s/F’s or at best C’s in regular-level classes). Granted, “honors programs” within community colleges exist in order to help students who are on the pathway to a 4 year college, but the main reason students attend these rather than a 4-year directional or a flagship is money, and the classes do NOT compare with the state flagship in rigor, let alone the flagship’s Honors programs (OP’s daughter is automatically admitted to UT Austin with an opportunity for great Honors programs, and may get a huge scholarship & Honors program at UT Dallas, for instance - none of which would be available to a CC transfer, and a CC’s Honors program won’t be the same at all as, say, BHP or Plan II or McDermott). Finally, as Hannah said above, it’s truly disingenuous to pretend a humanities class can be equivalent when routinely half the students didn’t do the reading.
Ask any student who’s attended a branch campus then the flagship, or CC then moved on to a selective 4-year: there is a huge difference.
There are exceptions but they’re not that numerous. Even in CA, which has the best CC network in the country, with professors teaching there and at the CSU/UC, only a minority of students manages to transfer to a 4-year college, either because it wasn’t their goal in the first place or because they couldn’t make it.
Finally, adjuncts can be very good teachers. However, they’re transitory. You can’t ask them for a recommendation for instance. In fact, if OP’s daughter wants to go on to graduate or professional school, finding a school where she’ll have time to build a meaningful relationship to professors and mentors is essential in order for her to secure a worthy (non generic) recommendation. Transfers have much less time for that.
And we’re not talking about the other aspects of learning, everything that takes place outside the classroom.
In Texas, students who want to attend the UT’s go through cap or branch campuses rather than community college - there’s a 1+3/2+2 system in place, including attending, say, UTSA then after a year getting into UT Austin.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I think the problem here is that Californians frequently find it difficult to understand that their state has an unusually well-developed and longstanding system of public higher education–the former “junior colleges,” CSUs, and UCs–that simply does not exist in some other states. New York is probably the closest, in what is loosely called “the northeast.”</p>
<p>Historically, private colleges and universities were established here before public Us. Historically, the junior colleges were mostly–perhaps all–for women only, private, and now mostly have become 4-yr schools since the 60s (for example, Lesley, Pine Manor, Lasell, Endicott ). The community colleges had a vocational focus. In Maine, they were until recently technical colleges. Only in the last 10 years or so have they been reimagined and renamed as CCs, with the idea that a significant number of students will transfer to the 4-yr state U after two years. In CT, when I grew up, a person who was not admitted directly to the main campus of UCONN in Storrs was able to start at the local UCONN branch in Stamford, and transfer after two years. They did not start at Norwalk Community College. The directionals were 4-yrs, self contained. Everything but Storrs was strictly a commuter school.</p>
).</p>