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</p>
<p>ROTFLMAO, Asking the world's largest rumor mill, probably at the apex of a production 'run', to provide facts?</p>
<p>Believe it or not, yes.</p>
<p>I'm not going to launch an award-winning rant on hearsay.</p>
<p>Let's go, people. Cough up the real deal....</p>
<p>
It's also hard to launch one not knowing why a career highly successful officer implemented the changes in the first place. A professional who took the advice of his leadership team, which included the Academic Dean, the Athletic Director, and the Admissions Officer. There are obviously valid 'whys' and we don't know them. All we can do is specuate and know that the slightly uneasy feelings that we have had over the past few years have been valid. Example: I know the mids attending away football games were abusing the system. This upset me because my NAAA contributions were contributing to them being there, representing the Academy. How widespread was the abuse? I have no idea but the present regulation change affirms to me that my concerns were valid. Example: Midshipmen declaring liberal arts majors are at an all-time high. Is this in the best interest of the Navy? I doubt it. Will extended mandatory study hours help convince them that they can reach higher? Accomplish more? I hope so.</p>
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It's also hard to launch one not knowing why a career highly successful officer implemented the changes in the first place.
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<p>I suspect that the reasons for the majority of the changes are self-evident provided people are willing to turn off their self-interests for more than a few seconds. For those where the reasons may not be so clear, one can offer an opinion but, as Shogun so wisely suggested, should reserve final judgment until we see the results or are given a better explanation. Others may be just plain nuts, but...</p>
<p>One thing that has bothered me throughout this thread is the apparent belief, especially among Mids who should bloody well know better by now, that the good Admiral actually owes any of them, their parents, or even the Alumni, an explanation. </p>
<p>NEWSFLASH: He doesn't owe anyone except the CNO a damned thing! He is the Commanding Officer of the United States Naval Academy, and if he wants to restrict the entire Brigade and military faculty to Bancroft Hall except for classes, then he has every right to do so, SO GET OVER IT! :mad:</p>
<p>WHAAA! I want my liberty back! WHAAA! I want to sing in the Glee Club! WHAAA! I want to be treated like a professional and an adult! :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Wanna be treated like a professional and an adult? START ACTING LIKE ONE! The past few years haven't exactly provided proof that you DESERVE what you're asking for, you know! Sex scandals! Drinking scandals! Assault scandals! WHY SHOULD YOU BE TREATED IN A WAY YOU HAVE NOT EARNED TO BE TREATED? :mad:</p>
<p>The wisdom or foolishness of his decisions will become evident soon enough. That's true of ANY commander in ANY military organization.</p>
<p>Speaking of which, this is the military, not a democracy. It's also an all-volunteer force. Don't like it? Walk your ass down to your Company Officer's office and tell him you quit. Otherwise, be an adult and suck it up. As with so much in the military, you don't gotta like it, you just gotta DO it. Someday it will be YOU making the decisions being Monday-morning quarterbacked by a bunch of know-it-alls. We'll see how you like it then.</p>
<p>"Quik accepting the acolytes of misinformed meddling moms."</p>
<p>Why is it that having a different opinion than yours requires you to make a statement such as this? How do you define "meddling?" You are very quick to lump the whole in with the few problem Mids. My 1/C son has worn stars for all but one semester and is an aero major. He already knows how to budget his time - he was selected to have a major leadership position as cadre for plebe summer and spent the summer before as a leader for summer seminar. And get this....he's not whining! My "meddling" advice has to be abide by the rules and follow the chain of command, which he and his classmates are doing. My "misinformation" comes from 1st person accounts of mealtimes with not enough food or even a place to sit. And the situation will not improve anytime soon as the food service budget is done through the end of Sept. 2008. They must now make due with the budget that was planned before any of the changes were made. </p>
<p>I am appalled by the rhetoric of some of the posts on this site. The name-calling is childish and reflects the inability of some to make an intelligent argument. </p>
<p>And before you blast me personally - let me assure you that I am well aware the this is a MILITARY ACADEMY. Because I don't happen to agree with your viewpoint doesn't mean that I don't understand what the Naval Academy is all about. Two of my three children attend service different service academies. I appreciate the differences in how they prepare their students for their responsibilities after graduation, but I and my children KNOW what this is all about. Don't assume that because I don't agree with you that I'm stupid or "meddling." That makes you the one that is making assumptions not based on the facts. </p>
<p>How sad that in this the greatest democracy that we can't respect differing opinions without restorting to name-calling.</p>
<p>WHY SHOULD YOU BE TREATED IN A WAY YOU HAVE NOT EARNED TO BE TREATED? </p>
<p>Why do you assume that ALL the Mids deserve to be treated this way? Yes, some of the Mids have been out of line and yes, they deserve to be dealt with appropriately. So why not deal with THEM appropriately. Make the punishments fit the crimes and make them the same no matter if you're a football player or straight-A student. There are Mids getting drunk during the week - OK, limit weekday liberty. I have no problem with that. But what lesson are we teaching by not having enough food - and this is not an isolated incident. We are going on a week of not enough food to feed the entire Brigade. </p>
<p>Attending a service academy means making sacrifices - no one disputes that. What we disagree on what sacrifices need to be made. Zaphod you are right, the Supt. has the right to make any decision he wants, but that doesn't make every decision he make right.</p>
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[quote]
Why do you assume that ALL the Mids deserve to be treated this way? Yes, some of the Mids have been out of line and yes, they deserve to be dealt with appropriately. So why not deal with THEM appropriately. Make the punishments fit the crimes and make them the same no matter if you're a football player or straight-A student.
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<p>Preach it. Unfortunately, that has not (according to some reports) been happening lately. When that happens, EVERYONE pays. </p>
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But what lesson are we teaching by not having enough food - and this is not an isolated incident. We are going on a week of not enough food to feed the entire Brigade.
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<p>And you actually think this is being done on purpose? You actually think the Superintendant is sitting in his office rubbing his hands gleefully together while actually PLANNING to "not have enough food" for the Brigade? </p>
<p>Sounds more to me that LT Food needs to be relieved for doing a lousy job, or else that the root cause can be found elsewhere. Unless we have a first-hand written account, I am not going to believe any Supe has purposely reduced the amount of food in King Hall with the intent of making Mids go hungry.</p>
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What we disagree on what sacrifices need to be made.
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<p>We also apparently disagree on what is a sacrifice and what is a circumstance beyond immediate control. There's a difference.</p>
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Zaphod you are right, the Supt. has the right to make any decision he wants, but that doesn't make every decision he make right.
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<p>I never said they were, but it doesn't make them wrong, either, especially when so many of the spear-chuckers have little or no clue/bearing to be casting the accusations in the first place.</p>
<p>ETA: BTW, I'm still waiting on that official list. If it is so horrid and abusive that it generates multiple-page threads, it really should be easy for all the complainers to generate. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>No, I don't think that the Supt. is happy that there's not enough food - but the budget for food service is done WAY in advance (per the recently retired USNA supply officer) and the current budget (to go through 9/31/08) was based on the previous numbers of mandatory meals, not the new number of mandatory meals. The cost of more food and the labor for preparing/serving the meals has to come out of the "old" numbers. And they can't divert funds from somewhere else to make up the difference due to contract issues. </p>
<p>I'm not making this up and I didn't forward this to my Mid. I checked my facts before I stuck my neck out on this forum. </p>
<p>And now I'll stand by at parade-rest waiting to get blasted for speaking up in defense of the Brigade and having the audacity to question a few of the decisions being made.</p>
<p>Just a question -
Regarding the food (or lack of it), I understand that it is frustrating if one shows up for a meal (being mandatory now & all) and there are shortages (my mid says it's supposed to improve in Sept.), and I understand that they aren't allowed to take food out of King Hall now (if there were any to take). </p>
<p>BUT - can't they go to the midstore? Seems like I've seen quite a variety of pretty good snack food. I didn't check it out too closely, but I know there is Beef Jerky (that's protein that my mid could probably subsist on entirely). Some parents make it sound like if we don't get double care packages shipped out overnight, the brigade will starve! My mid hasn't complained so I haven't asked about the food available from other sources (did I hear that Drydock is off limits?).</p>
<p>I too, am waiting to see the definitive list of changes, but so far it hasn't sounded like something to be so worked up about. My mid EXPECTED hardhips at USNA - that's why he went there. He wanted the discipline. And even if these changes cramp his style, he would adapt. So I'm not too worried.</p>
<p>And maybe I'm just a "mean ol' momma", but I can actually see some value in having to "share" at the tables or, if you're really hungry, secure some food on your own (I heard some places in Annapolis even DELIVER!;)).</p>
<p>BTW, one thing that I questioned was not making football games mandatory. But, I would hope that the vast majority of the mids WOULD choose to go to the games. And if they don't see fit to come out & cheer on the football team, then they SHOULD be in their rooms studying. Just my opinion...</p>
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<p>Not correct. O&MN funds can be reprogrammed. It happens all the time in DoD. Also, the CFO/Financial Officer has the leeway to move OPTAR from one budget category to another.</p>
<p>Contracts are modified all the time. That's how DoD ends up with the so-called "Budget Overruns" that we always hear about in the media. Scope creep in the statement of work results in increased costs. Those increased costs are always passed on to the Government. There is no free lunch (no pun intended).</p>
<p>Increasing the number of mandatory meals is a changed contract condition. The question that needs to be answered is: Has the Supply Officer modified the food services contract to reflect the current situation? The second question that needs to be answered is: Has the Contracting Officer conveyed the Navy's dissatisfaction with the current level of service and quality?</p>
<p>The contractor will not want to receive adverse performace evaluations because that could result in their not be awarded future contracts. Also, the Navy has the option of not exercising contract options and bringing in a new contractor is the service doesn't improve.</p>
<p>Thank you GreatAmerican - I stand corrected. In that case maybe the food situation will improve in the next month or so. Maybe I should hold off sending the brownies??</p>
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I would never be upset with someone who has the facts for disagreeing with me. I will be upset with anyone going on this forum who I know does not have the facts and encouraging midshipmen to be critical of their chain of command.</p>
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<p>The Navy is a team. If you will note the majority of the whining and crying, it is always accompanied by "my grades are good", "I don't go into town and get drunk", etc etc. "Why don't 'they' punish those who are not.....................". You are right. Maybe someday they will realize that they are a team and when they can start changing the above "I" to "we", and the "they punish" to "we don't tolerate", then some progress will be made.</p>
<p>Just a little levity...</p>
<p>My dad was USNA '50. With his granddaughter being '10, he's reliving and retelling lots of hilarious (and some not so) stories from his Academy and JO days.</p>
<p>This summer, his granddaughter was on one of the sailing cruises (which was one of the truly great experiences of her young career.) She "volunteered" to be the supply officer, which of course meant that she was also the default mess officer. Upon return from Newport, she was sharing tales of food shortages (not buying the right stuff) and bad meals (not cooking the wrong stuff the right way) and the clever solutions they had to these problems.</p>
<p>My dad then told the following story: "When I was a junior officer on a destroyer, the Navy wasn't exactly Nelsonian, but it was certainly rugged. There were nine of us in my first wardroom, and each of us had several responsibilities in addition to our primary (mission) assignment. The worst was mess officer. The stewards were always "appropriating" food, the supplies got worse as the cruise went on, and the cooking was notoriously bad. All of this was the responsibility of the mess officer, so being the mess officer was a lousy job because everyone was always mad at you."</p>
<p>He went on, "We had a rule that if you complained about how another officer did their ancillary duty, you got assigned that duty on the next rotation. Well, no one wanted to be the mess officer, so the typical mealtime conversation went like this: 'This food tastes like c*** (or other term)! But it's good, it's good!'" </p>
<p>Made us all laugh, and now when we complain about anything we all finish by saying: "but it's good, it's good!"</p>
<p>Just felt like sharing in hopes of lightening the mood.</p>
<p>Well, I guess I'll address the food issue now and leave the rest for later.</p>
<p>Come with me back to 1985, when I first ate a meal in King Hall. For a high school senior, it was a hoot, and the food wasn't half-bad. What I remember is lunch, which was hamburgers. The soup was Navy-Bean soup (I remember because the 1/C sitting next to me asked the Plebe across from me. Bit of a shock to a newbie.). </p>
<p>Fast-forward to 1986, roughly the same time of year (the fall). Here I am as a NAPSter, used to the AWFUL grub dished out at Ney Hall in Newport, staring at a table with a fresh salad, prime rib, and all the fixin's. Included that night was the famous "Beat Army Cake", which were DAMNED good. Plenty to go around, too.</p>
<p>Fast forward to 1987. I am a Plebe, and I begin to see King Hall every day. Food continues to be awesome (especially compared to the still-ill-remembered Ney Hall, and especially considering that they were serving 4,500 mouths in one shot). HOWEVER....... Beat Army Cakes have dissappeared. :(</p>
<p>Over the next four years, I witnessed what seemed to be a steady decline in the quality of the food. Prime rib disappeared, too. The rest was kinda blah, but tasty enough, and we never ran out (on the contrary, we threw enough food away to feed another Regiment). Either it was us getting bored of the same old stuff, or it was a real decline. Probably both. By the same token, some really great improvements were implemented: Salad dressing packets (instead of ONE dressing in a small bowl which DID run out more often than not) and (at the time) Barraccini ice cream (far better than the stuff coming from the USNA dairy), among others, came to the rescue. Even on the few days where the food was inedible (Schalm Casserrole, served ONCE and for good reason) there was always tons of PB&J sandwiches to be made.</p>
<p>Fast-forward to 2006 or so. I begin hearing the first rumblings of bad food in King Hall. To say that I was shocked would be an understatement. It wasn't just one or two instances, either. It was a real trend. Now we find ourselves in 2007 hearing reports of NOT ENOUGH food. WHAT? :eek:</p>
<p>There is no excuse for there not being enough food. At least not on anything resembling a regular basis. I recognize that issues will arise what with the renovation of King Hall and the pressing of Dahlgren Hall into service as a mess hall. However, that sort of thing should have been planned for. </p>
<p>As to the subject of food quality, there are few things that will ruin the morale of a unit faster than lowsy chow when good stuff IS AVAILABLE (it's not like we're in the trenches, here). It is inexcusable and the direct responsibility of the Sup, through the USNA SUPPO (AKA "LT Food"), to fix IMMEDIATELY. PERIOD.</p>
<p>Again, I am willing to accept that things happen when the renovations are ongoing, that on-site storage and cooking capacity may be at a premium, etc., and that things beyond the best planner's ability to predict can and do happen, but I'm hearing it far too often for comfort.</p>
<p>Sadly, I have not had the pleasure of dining in King Hall since the morning of May 29th, 1991. I hope to do so again someday, especially now that I've seen what the renovated King Hall looks like (I'll be posting some pics at SAF for those interested). I sincerely hope that, as the Brigade returns to King Hall, that most of these issues will resolve themselves.</p>
<p>I do not believe for a New York second that the Sup purposefuly cut rations as part of his changes. Anyone who does is sufficiently gullible to believe anything. That said, if the prior administration (which prepared the budget for this year) screwed that up, then ADM Rempt is the guy to chew out. Some of the cuts you are hearing about and railing against may, in fact, be going toward fixing the chow situation in the short term. Time will tell.</p>
<p>Of all the complaints and comments I have heard from current Mids, the ones with the chow bother me the most. There will always be gripes (after all, my soon-to-be Mother-In-Law isn't in the galley cranking out her incredible fare), but there have been far too many of a kind that can't be dismissed as regular griping. Not good at all. :(</p>
<p>ETA: A question for the current Mids. In my day, we had feedback forms on every table at every meal. You could fill them out and drop them off in the comments box. Do you currently have any such mechanism at your disposal?</p>
<p>Also, are you permitted to scrounge off other tables on the way out? We were, and that helped us more than once when we had to skip a meal during exams or whatnot. Those in-the-pan lasagnas were a GODSEND, boy! We took a whole one back and ate for a week! We were on 1-4, and stashed the stuff outside our window during the winter. :D</p>
<p>Food:</p>
<p>I don't believe for a second that the Supe wanted to cut rations on the Mids. It was simply supply and demand. If you add XXX number of Mids at meals that didn't eat evening meal because they were working out, attending a sporting event (Plebes were required to attend two a week...that's a tall order), or getting a jump on studying, then you'll have a significant shortage of food and possibly room. They did open up a section of King Hall but previous to this fall, everyone was in Dahlgren.</p>
<p>Zaphod - My Mid tells me that there are 10-15 chits/day going up the chain of command - which is the appropriate way to handle the situation. Also, they Mids are now strictly prohibited from taking anything out of the dining hall. It may be that there was too much loss of food being taken out, or the mice problem in Bancroft is out of control. I don't know so I won't hazard a guess. My Mid is pretty easy to please food-wise. He will eat cereal 3 times/day if that's what it takes to keep him filled up. And best of all he's keeping his sense of humor - he told me earlier that he had to go to lunch formation and the food-tasting! </p>
<p>In general, none of these changes is the end of the world...not for the Mids and not for the parents/alums. But I appreciate the info that I can get from this and similar forums i.e. GreatAmerican's info regarding the food contracts, the prespective of a Mid other than my own. And it helps if I can vent/blow off steam as, believe it or not, I really don't want to convey my concerns to my Mid. He and most of the others are handling the changes as they should and I know that there are some that will never be happy. And I haven't canceled my donation to the Foundation or written my congressman - yet.</p>
<p>"I do not believe for a New York second that the Sup purposefuly cut rations as part of his changes. Anyone who does is sufficiently gullible to believe anything. That said, if the prior administration (which prepared the budget for this year) screwed that up, then ADM Rempt is the guy to chew out. Some of the cuts you are hearing about and railing against may, in fact, be going toward fixing the chow situation in the short term. Time will tell."</p>
<p>Sorry, Zaphod, I respectfully disagree that ADM Rempt is responsible for the apparent current food issues. The food budget would have been prepared using specific assumptions about the number of meals to be provided per day. The person responsible for significantly increasing the actual number of meals per day (i.e. the new supe) should have recognized the potential impact, and through LT Food, made sure that the contract/contractor could actually implement the changed number of meals per day BEFORE giving the execute order. This is NOT to say that I think the supe intentionally meant the food to be a problem. Just bad implementation.</p>
<p>Many other issues can be laid at ADM Rempt's feet, but not this one.</p>
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My Mid tells me that there are 10-15 chits/day going up the chain of command - which is the appropriate way to handle the situation.
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<p>Correct. However, and just so I am clear, they are running chits for what, specifically? Do you mean the feedback chits I mentioned, or for something else?</p>
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Also, they Mids are now strictly prohibited from taking anything out of the dining hall. It may be that there was too much loss of food being taken out, or the mice problem in Bancroft is out of control.
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<p>Most likely the latter. Mice have been an issue since before even my time (boy do I have some stories on that note, including Marvin, our PET mouse). What I find infuriating is that after a multi-million-dollar overhaul of the Hall, they STILL have mice! :mad:</p>
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My Mid is pretty easy to please food-wise. He will eat cereal 3 times/day if that's what it takes to keep him filled up.
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<p>LOL. I'm still the same way. :D </p>
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And best of all he's keeping his sense of humor - he told me earlier that he had to go to lunch formation and the food-tasting!
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<p>Good for him. He'll go far, that one. :)</p>
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And it helps if I can vent/blow off steam as, believe it or not, I really don't want to convey my concerns to my Mid.
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<p>Hey, don't think I don't understand, especially about this food issue. The rest can be written off as typical policy SNAFU. Food in King Hall, OTOH, gets very little leeway from me as well as others, so we're with you on that one.</p>
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Sorry, Zaphod, I respectfully disagree that ADM Rempt is responsible for the apparent current food issues. The food budget would have been prepared using specific assumptions about the number of meals to be provided per day. The person responsible for significantly increasing the actual number of meals per day (i.e. the new supe) should have recognized the potential impact, and through LT Food, made sure that the contract/contractor could actually implement the changed number of meals per day BEFORE giving the execute order. This is NOT to say that I think the supe intentionally meant the food to be a problem. Just bad implementation.</p>
<p>Many other issues can be laid at ADM Rempt's feet, but not this one.
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<p>...and you may very well be absolutely right.</p>
<p>Believe me, I am not pitting one Admiral against another just for fun or due to prejudice. Whoever deserves the blame will get it from me. I just want folks to take a step back and realize that not all the facts are on the table yet. If it's Rempt's fault, so be it. If it's Fowler's fault, so be it. Just wait until we KNOW who it is.</p>
<p>I am curious, however, about the statement above claiming the budget would be blown by September. If the new changes took place in early August (judging by the newspaper articles), and the budget will be blown a month later with four months to go, then that was poor planning LAST YEAR. If, however, we are measuring using Fiscal years, then one month off with these changes should be a surprise to no one, and adjustments (as GA described) should be occurring. In fact, they should have already occurred.</p>
<p>It'll be interesting to see where the chips fall. I'll guarantee you one thing, though: Fowler can go from Satan to Second Coming if he gets this chow situation resolved quickly. While I am unaware of other priorities he may have on his plate that would take precedence, I'd hope this one would be way up there.</p>