Discussion of Changes at USNA

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
241

<p>We have to keep the food problem within reason here. Certainly, for a mid's prospective, what is going on right now is UNSAT. The reason why we have a food shortage is because of the three mandatory meals that everyone has to attend. MFSD has to comply with the SUPE's demands. Last year, yes, the food was not outstanding, but we never had to worry about not having enough.</p>

<p>USNA69, I assure you the story about the 8 pieces of chicken was not an isolated incident. It happened at my table as well. Last week I went without a seat everyday at lunch. I'd rather the 4/c and the rest of my squadmates ate.</p>

<p>Now, I'd like to echo something Zaphod brought up earlier. Yes, mids are always complaining, and the food situation is a legitimate gripe. But, you don't see mids looking elsewhere for education or career opportunities. Most people are here to stay and would go without food many nights in favor of ordering out (as I sit here eating pizza and not down in Dahlgren eating Jerk Chicken). We see the light at the end of the tunnel.</p>

<p>In all, someone needs to be accountable for what's going on with the food and lack of seating. USNA69, I hope you are right when you say someone will get fired if this continues. It shouldn't last longer than a week in my book, so we'll see what the food is like next week.</p>

<p>Or maybe there is no end in sight for the food situation where someone who SHOULD be accountable (LT Food) is getting away with below average quality and quantity of food.</p>

242

<p>USNS69... forgot to address your remaining questions...</p>

<p>
[quote]
Tables seat 12. Are we to assume all companies less those sitting at training tables are composed of multiples of 12? Are we then to assume that there are enough tables such that if a company has 97 midshipman that they will rate a 9th table for a single individual? Are we further to assume that a contractor has enough luxury built into his contract or is expected by contract to supply that table of 1? Midshipmen roam. As one stated above, there are overflow tables. 97 has to go find the company with 95. There is also another myriad of reasons that companies don't show up at meals in perfect multiples of 12. And I doubt that they are required to sit in each others lap.</p>

<p>I am not in a position to respond to any of this. Other have stated there were an insufficient number of tables, and tables without chairs. I trust the 1C's are reporting the truth. As your your last comment, don't be riduculous.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Bread with mold. Wake up folks. Annapolis is in the south. The very humid hot south. Bread molds. Does it happen all the time? Every meal? I have picked mold out of bread my entire life.

[/quote]

time to change your supplier.
Someone once told me, "You get what you tolerate, therefore you get what you deserve." Seems fitting to repeat that here.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Tables seat 12. Are we to assume all companies less those sitting at training tables are composed of multiples of 12? Are we then to assume that there are enough tables such that if a company has 97 midshipman that they will rate a 9th table for a single individual? Are we further to assume that a contractor has enough luxury built into his contract or is expected by contract to supply that table of 1? ......'Meals required' arithmetic isn't hard. Total mids + guests - midshipmen authorized to miss meals /12 = number of tables to prepare.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I am not making any assumptions.
I am not there. The midshipmen who have the courage to keep us informed on this site are. I believe what they are posting is truthful.</p>

<p>If by "training tables" you mean "team tables," there are no more team tables. All teams are required to sit with their squad.
Are guests even still allowed?<br>
Bottom line, don't care how you add and subract, multiply or divide the arithmetic.... there is no excuse for ANY MID NOT TO BE FED THREE SQUARES UNLESS IT IS THEIR CHOICE TO OPT OUT AND LEAVE HUNGRY.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I have spent the better part of my life in the Navy and I cannot, in my wildest dream, imagine this being either as bad as described or a result of simple gross neglect.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>so has my dad... a "seabee" on Okinawa, et.al.... and my father in law....ships throughout his 20+ year career. Thank you for your service. My Dad's cousin lost on the Indiannapolis. Gross neglect happens, even in the United States Navy.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Do we need to take up a collection for alarm clocks so they can get up early and work out? Or is that also against the rules.

[/quote]

save yourself the trouble. They are allowed, they all have them, and I can vouch for one room that has them set for 0530 already. Make that 0500 the morning of the PRT. </p>

<p>I will hold to my position.
Failure to plan.
Failure to execute.
Failure to plan for a test for failure.</p>

<p>On that note, I, too, am done.</p>

243

<p>I'm wondering if a nerve has been struck.:eek: It would seem jadler has the correct notion. :cool:</p>

244

<p>
[quote]

layed out my opinion, which I rarely do, and probably won't on this topic again.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I, for one, thank you for your honesty in posting your observations, your leadership on trying to follow orders yet work on addressing the issues, and your COURAGE to post your opinion. </p>

<p>I hope you continue to do so.
There are many on here that appreciate your leadership- you can take that to the bank.</p>

<p>Ditto GoNavyXC.
Looks like great leadership is not in short supply in the Class of 08.</p>

245

<p>


</p>

<p>I think I am going to have to agree with you. And apologize for assuming he was a Youngster.</p>

<p>Now, if we can just get him to be a little more open minded and in a little less haste to judge about what else the Supt is doing.</p>

246

<p>
[quote]
I'm wondering if a nerve has been struck. It would seem jadler has the correct notion.

[/quote]

which nerve would you be reffering to?
If it is the "lets mess with the meddling moms who don't know anything anyway and are not entitled to their opinion because "this can't possibly be true"- and dare I say- challenge the bullies in the sandbox" then you can bet your a$$ the nerve has been struck.</p>

<p>And this violet is not shrinking.</p>

247

<p>Just curious if the SUPE and his administration are also eating every meal with the mids? Seems it would be hard for him/them to not take notice and do something about this unsatisfactory situation.</p>

248

<p>
[quote]
Now, if we can just get him to be a little more open minded............

[/quote]
</p>

<p>is this a joke?
if it isn't, it sure sounds like the smoke calling the kettle black!</p>

249

<p>


</p>

<p>My dad was a doctor. Would you mind putting on this gown for me.</p>

250

<p>I am trying to be open minded as much as possible. I take pride in my company officer because he treats us (as much as possible within these new policies) as adults. If we do what we are suppose to do...we are good to go. On the contrary, if you screw up...you will know about it. However, all the 1/C in our company trust him and he places a lot of trust in us....he is letting all the 1/C run the company...not himself. He is willing to listen and hear our opinions and then he makes a judgement. And if he were to tell us "it has to be this way," I doubt anyone would question him, because we know he has listened to our input. </p>

<p>One of the most important things that I have learned/understood from being here is that...trust and respect must be earned. You don't acquire these items by having rank. People understand that they cannot always get their way (sounds like life?), but if you constantly ignore what your people have to say....you can kiss away respect/trust. </p>

<p>USNA69...no sweat about it.</p>

<p>Zaph, I was thinking we should setup a quarter deck and everytime the Dant or Supe come on our deck, we should pipe them aboard...."Commandant/Naval Academy arriving" with sideboys!</p>

<p>Edit: </p>

<p>The Supe even said it himself....3 points he made: listen, learn, lead. He told us that he is done listening and learning...now he is leading.</p>

<p>I guess it is kind of like the relationship between a DivO and Chief....you can't always please a chief, but you can try to hear their input. Good chiefs will know it can't always be their way, but at least they were heard! Now, if you totally blew off the chief practically every time.....probably not good (for someone)!</p>

251

<p>
[quote]
My opinions aren't worth a tinker's hoot. However, his are and they need to be encouraged and nourished.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>see.... I knew if I hung around long enough we would find yet more common ground on which to agree!!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>
[quote]
My dad was a doctor. Would you mind putting on this gown for me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>are you trying to "score" with the meddling moms now? :eek:</p>

252

<p>


</p>

<p>ROTFLMAO. If I have to deliver a bottle of merlot, I at least want it to be worth my while.</p>

<p>Never dreamed the most absurd analogy that I could imagine could be taken in two totally different ways.</p>

253

<p>The point I was trying to make with the food was that even a youngster like myself should not have to sacrifice my seat for an entire week.</p>

<p>It wasn't only the 1/c giving up their seats at lunch.</p>

<p>I heard that September 6 marks the new day when we start getting a new food service brand. It's supposed to be more healthy than what we have now. Can anyone confirm this?</p>

254

<p>


</p>

<p>You shouldn't. And my point is that you should not give up one meal unless everyone above you in your chain of command has also. Go see Jadler. He is on the right track.</p>

<p>Since everyone is assigned seating in their company area, how did this happen?</p>

255

<p>There is a chart by squads (i.e. Squad 1-1: Table X). </p>

<p>USNA is definitely not a perfect world...not every person is on the same page!</p>

<p>XC,</p>

<p>I would talk to your 1stSgt. Let him/her bring this issue to your chain. I will also try getting in contact with the right people. As USNA69 said, this should not be happening....anyone who cares about their subordinates (I hate using that word!) would be more than happy to get up for you.</p>

<p>A Marine Capt. who visited the Weapons detail this summer laid out a good point (in Marine context). Platoon Commanders work for the members in their platoon (and NOT any higher officer) BUT the Company Commander holds the Platoon Commander accountable....and you could say the same thing between Battalion and Company Commanders....etc, etc, etc.</p>

<p>It kind of falls in with what the Supe was saying...."it is a privilege to serve with those who volunteered to serve"</p>

256

<p>
[quote]
If I have to deliver a bottle of merlot, I at least want it to be worth my while.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>oh my.... is that a concession????
please- someone pinch me now!</p>

<p>
[quote]
Since everyone is assigned seating in their company area, how did this happen?

[/quote]

the million dollar question.
But kudo's to you that you are asking it, and more importantly, perhaps even willing this time to listen- attentively I hope- to the answer! </p>

<p>btw- yellowtail will do nicely. ;)</p>

257

<p>^^^^^^"If I have to deliver", not "When I have to deliver".</p>

258

<p>^^^^all the same thing. :)</p>

259

<p>sorry, i know i'm a little late in the game, but as a current 2/c i had to put in my opinion. i'm sorry if some of you might see it as grousing, but we currently have a 'no complaints/no feedback' policy at annapolis, so i have relatively few venues for raising my concerns. yes, that is the new administration's policy.....'we're making changes and your thoughts are irrelevant.' hey, they have the stripes and stars, they make the policy and i just live under it.
however.
as much as the naval academy loves to claim that its all about preparing leaders for the fleet and marine corps, it is not the fleet and marine corps. we are taught to analyze leadership every second from I-day to Graduation Day. therefore, you have roughly 4400 people watching and dissecting every policy change and move, and you don't get to say "well, you can have an opinion about MOST leaders, but not the supe and dant."
i think what most people are griping about is not really the liberty loss. believe it or not, we're not all as immature as some people would like to believe. and no, annapolis under ADM rempt was not a 24/7 party that ADM fowler decided to reign in. life was tough, and now its tougher: i signed on for this and i accept it. its the endless time wasting that really kills me, and the stupid counter productive rules.</p>

<p>some have said that the increased number of mandatory meals will "build camaraderie", and are glad that we are shifting the focus back to academics away from those pesky, time wasting ECA's. i mean, after all, that's what your (and my) tax dollars are going to, right? creating military leaders? let me detail what this shift really means.
we are now eating 3 meals a day together, most of us from monday to friday. we are also not allowed to work out after 2000 now because of a newly enforced study hour policy. what does this translate to? midshipmen are sitting around in dahlgren and king hall, their bottoms growing flabbier by the minute. however, where 1st and 2nd battalion eat (the unrenovated portion of king hall) they seem to be combating the imminent weight gain by harshly scaling back the portions...meaning most of us go hungry. i'm not exaggerating: there is not enough food on the tables for everyone to eat.
and the night runs along the sea wall by hospital point that everyone used to enjoy? not a possibility anymore. so people are going hungry or overeating and not working out. i'm sorry, but any policy that encourages mids to go to more meals and exercise less is poorly thought out, but should the response really be starvation? and were our grades so bad before? i thought we had one rhodes scholar last year, and two in 2005? </p>

<p>and lest you think that your tax dollars were being frivolously spent to support waste of time ECA's, let me assure you that many ECA's, like the orchestra (which was axed) were paid for out of the mids' pockets. in fact, the only solvent ECA, the men's and women's glee clubs, which actually made money for the academy through their sold-out Halloween and Christmas concerts, have also been crushed and those concerts cancelled. The Supe and Dant think they are 'distractions.'</p>

<p>Apparently God is also a 'distraction'. Didn't you know? the religious ECA's were axed as well. Officers' Christian Fellowship, the Student Baptist Union, Campus Crusade for Christ and Catholic Midshipmen Club also have....no time to meet! the Supe and Dant's new mandatory meal policy has left mids with barely half an hour from the end of dinner until they must be in their rooms studying. The Chaplains, as you can imagine, are scrambling to find time to replace the once-lengthy weekly meetings. pretty much that time is now restricted to liberty.</p>

<p>the supe is right. its much more important that we sit, not-eating or over-eating depending on the company, rather than being involved, out running or working in groups like the Midshipmen Action group, which coordinates mids with volunteer work. Midshipmen are a wide and varied bunch: they want to learn to salsa dance and debate and study astronomy. and if they can do it, on their own time and dime, while still being academically and professionally competent, doesn't that make them better officers, not worse? isn't it crazy that we want mids to sit around eating rather than work with habitat for humanity or worshiping God? trust me, there has been no dramatic shift in the quality of squad tables. my new battalion officer tried to sum up the new policy by saying "Being a joe is the new way to be cool." wow. </p>

<p>and my last plug, for the Army-Navy rivalry. the supe didn't let us say "beat army" at the end of the singing of Blue & Gold at the 2/C Commitment Dinner, celebrating us signing our papers because we are "one team, one fight". come on. are we really so immature and juvenile that just because of a rivalry (filled with deep-seated respect and mutual admiration, that has existed since 1845) we do not respect the Army? army week itself looks like its not going to exist. the pushup competitions, spirit competitions....gone. to all the alumni out there...the rivalry existed when you were here, including during past times of war. do you really think it needs to go? did it hinder your development as a naval officer and cause irreparable damage to your ability to work with the other services? remember, if we lose this, we lose so very much of what it means to be at Annapolis. if you haven't gone here, you might not understand.
i don't care about weekday liberty. i do care about the rivalry. i do care about the ECA's, which were such an important place for mids to express themselves and learn new skills. i refuse to believe that God is a waste of time and a distraction. and i am resentful of leadership which simply says 'i know best' when, quite frankly, they do not.but i'm an uppity young whippersnapper, and since i just signed my papers i guess i better put up and shut up.</p>

260

<p>and my favorite memory of king hall was last week when we showed up to breakfast....consisting of hamburger buns with sausage gravy. no, not biscuits. hamburger buns. the petty officer in charge seemed blithely unconcerned when the hordes of mids began asking him....'what exactly is this?' </p>

<p>'breakfast.'
and that, along with 6 cereal cups and a wide array of condiments, was the only option for breakfast that day for the 12 people sitting at my table.</p>