<p>
</p>
<p>The date is a "sell by" date which applies only to retail sales, not a 'drink by' date. And probably one of the reasons God gave us a nose was so we wouldn't kill ourselves by inadvertently drinking sour milk. No big deal. Effective use of our tax dollars, if you ask me.</p>
<p>There definitely is room on this forum for everyone. We all need respect everyone''s views and yes even their opinions. </p>
<p>That being said I will respectfully ask that the derogatory remarks about any of the eliminated EC"s, i.e. MAG being recreational field trips and the Orchestra as "tuba tooting" stop. It is hurtful to the Mids and yes, even to retired enlisted.</p>
<p>I will address my concern as it applies to my Mid: Music has always been important to the US Navy. The United States Navy Band began back in the 20's and is going strong today, The Naval Academy Band started back in the 1850's, the NORAD Band representing all services with its beginnings sometime in the 1950's. I have a cousin that served in all three. He enlisted in the Navy in 1966 and had a 20 year career. His tours took him from the US Navy Band to the NORAD Band to even a tour with the Naval Academy Band and back to the US Navy Band. He is an accomplished trumpet player. He has played all over the world. His most memorable tours were when they played for the troops in Vietnam. He served his county proudly, maybe not in what some feel was a traditional way but the joy they brought to people all over the world was priceless. Even the Mids are touched by the Enlisted in the Naval Academy Band. What message do we send those who chose to serve our nation in this capacity and make derogatory comments about them tooting their tubas? </p>
<p>No I am not delusional, my mid will not have a career in Music, but if the Naval Academy Orchestra provides concerts for the residents of Annapolis, if they accompany the Midshipmen's winter musical, if they play for distinguished events in DC why should their value be diminished? They practice 3 hours a week and did not travel other than for a Friday evening performance in DC. They are a team - one cannot function without the entire team doing their part. Is that not what team building and leadership are about? How could this possibly be a distraction. </p>
<p>That being said - every EC that has been eliminated has hurt a group of Mids. Those activities are theirs and they took ownership of them. For many it is their way to stay connected with society, a way to deal with stress, a way to broaden their horizons in a manner that is not text book driven. The MAG program was not about meaningless field trips. When our country's mission in Iraq is to help rebuild yet we tell our Mids that their Habitat for Humanity House is a filed trip what kind of message are we sending?</p>
<p>Let those of us here NOT reinforce that negative message.</p>
<p>Lets respect those Mids that are struggling to find options to replace activities that they have invested themselves in for the past 3, 2 or 1 years at USNA.</p>
<p>momof1 Thanks for the Articles - will be reading for awhile. Appreciate it!</p>
<p>
[quote]
God gave us a nose was so we wouldn't kill ourselves by inadvertently drinking sour milk. No big deal. Effective use of our tax dollars, if you ask me
[/quote]
Please, and your purpose for this post is?</p>
<p>
[quote]
What I HOPE for in the end is that the alumni will step up and speak out should the situation continue. YOU (the current midshipmen) are THEIR future. YOU are THEIR LEGACY. You are forged of the same material, the same experiences, the same mission. Just as you look after the plebes that follow behind you, it is the alumn that need to make sure "their charges" are well cared for. So this challenge is just as much theirs as it is yours..... in that I firmly believe, and I hope their outrage rings loud and clear should things like this continue. I have every confidence the FACE OF THE NAVY.... the brigade of midshipmen.... will be SORELY MISSED at football games..... I firmly belive that your "march on's" bring them more "pride" in "their" academy than you can even imagine. I would even venture to say that they come to the cames to see THE BRIGADE as much as they come to see the actual game itself. So let the silence be deafening. I can think of no louder message to send, and I firmly believe, for all the "applause" for some of the "tough love" going on, there is a huge wake up call coming.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>navy2010 you have this on the mark. </p>
<p>I went to two football games last year best part of both: The March ON. Unbelievable feeling of Pride to watch 4400 Midshipmen take the field. Of Course we won both games - that worked too - but I really was there to see the March On!</p>
<p>As for Future and Legacy - was there any program at IDay or PPW for the Class of 2011 to be greeted by the Class of 1961? Did they receive their first coins from the class of 1961?</p>
<p>momof1-
wow- you certainly have been doing your homework!
Thankyou for all the articles-
unfortunatley could not access the pdf files- would not link into them-
but the others were insightful.</p>
<p>As for the rest, we will have to wait and see.
As long as they fix the food issue, I am willing to sit back and see where she leads. I mean him. </p>
<p>I have full faith and confidence in the Brigade.</p>
<p>ProfMom- right there with you.
I am a firm believer that "all work and no play" accomplishes nothing.
And with all the pressures on the yard, from academics to the 4th class system and the other demands placed on them, having something available for them to enjoy and even "get lost in" for a few hours of a given week is not only good for the soul, but "absolutely essential."</p>
<p>Don't much care if they are tooting tubas, clanging cymbols, picking at the piccillo, cheering for football, running the midfield with a lax stick in their hands, raising the sails on a 44, tutoring the kids in the community, building a house to habitat, singing in the choir, eating pizza with the chaplins, getting muddy on the rugby field, climbing up a rock face, going for a run on the sea wall, loosing themselves in Harry Potter, tinkering with their robot project..... or just plain doing nothing but closing their eyes for some much needed sleep with their I-pod blasting in their ears. They need some down time- plain and simple. </p>
<p>This is not rocket science...and IMO, their elimination is not only shortsighted, but most unwise when the morale of the troops should be of top concern to its leader. "turn off to them" has but one outcome.... they will "turn off to you." And on this point there is some truth in what USNA69 posted- they will find amongst themselves other leadership, of that I am sure. </p>
<p>Hopefully the "light bulb" will go on before they all hit rock bottom.</p>
<p>As for sour milk-
it goes along with the rest of the food issues.
FIX IT ALREADY.
I can't keep up with the parents listserve- which have been overtaken with "food food and more food" complaints.
USNA69- This is one place where the supe very much NEEDS TO BE SEEN AND HEARD.</p>
<p>JADLER and JAMTEX:::Keep reporting what you seeing and experiencing. What is up w/ serving Gravy all the time? Who would want to eat that? </p>
<p>Hopefully, the situation in the Workout room will be FIXED. If these mids are eating gravy as their meal, than at least give them unfettered access to the weight room.</p>
<p>Oh, I'm not whining either. I am ANGRY!!</p>
<p>It's a fine line. Call it what you will. It's ok though. 2010 is embracing her meddling moniker. ;)</p>
<p>thanks for the warm welcome, (am wearing my meddling mom pin with pride :)</p>
<p>I do have another question, what does the fleet think of recent Academy grads? You know the one's who were allowed to travel to sporting events, participated in ECAs, music programs, who were able to manage some of their own time in regards to eating, studying, working out etc?? Are they preceived by the fleet as "unprepared" and distracted?????? Is this why such changes were necessary?</p>
<p>You know, I'm happy to take all bets on how long this non-march on lasts. If in fact it's been approved ... or disapproved ... or whatever it is.</p>
<p>Politics will prevail when it comes to tailgating, alumni, and USNA football! Or maybe PJ would simply have to give his own order ... "Admiral Supe, get the guys and gals back in those stands or you can come watch me at Beaver Stadium, Happy Valley PA every other Saturday."</p>
<p>I'm confident this too will pass sooner than later. Way too much poor PR potential for way too little payback. </p>
<p>Any takers? :cool:</p>
<p>By the way, I like the idea that we may have lent some credibility to a bunch of whining women ... I can see these at the stadium, the Yard, about Annapolis, the occasional bumper sticker ...</p>
<p>"I'm a USNA Meddling Mother ... Mess with me at your own risk!</p>
<p>Now pass the bisquits, or burger buns please." </p>
<p>Now THAT would be a force to be reckoned with. :eek: :eek: :eek:</p>
<p>One more thought about this new USNA Affinity Group ... being that there were none among the original grads, ALL members of the Meddling Mothers Brigade shall be inducted as honorary members of USNA Class of '69 ... talk about monumental paybacks! :0</p>
<p>^^^^^^^^The million dollar question to which we probably will never know the answer. A good leader will give the implication that the order is his. However, in my 40 yr old out-of-date Navy, one does not make Vice Admiral by screwing up perfectly running machines. If the changes are as drastic as they seem, something is broke. Broke bad. It could be coming down from the CNO or it could be coming up through the ranks via the Dean or the Commandant. Again, we will most likely never know. If it is coming from VAdm Fowler alone, your supposition might be correct. As Sixth Fleet he would be intimately aware of the quality of USNA Ensigns hitting the fleet.</p>
<p>But something, in my opinion, is definitely screwed up. Until the Brigade faces reality, does some soul searching, finds the problem, and then fixes it, things will most definitely continue to be screwed up.</p>
<p>What is this about not being a march-on for football games?</p>
<p>1USNA1UIUC,</p>
<p>Unless things have changed, USNA grads unfortunately have a bit of a reputation for arrogance. However, I never once ran across anyone who didn't give me a fair shake and assess me on my own merits.</p>
<p>In short, the reputation any single officer will have will depend much more on their own performance than it will on their alma mater. As I've said before, you will find diamonds AND turds coming out of USNA, ROTC, OCS, and anywhere else. The fact that USNA is expected to turn out better officers simply increases the pressure on grads, but not overly so.</p>
<p>
[quote]
New CO checks into a squadron. He is everywhere. He has Captain's call for the troops every Friday. He is always in the work spaces asking how things are going. He has his finger totally on the pulse of the morale of the troops. He solves all their problems. The troops love him and would walk through the gates of heck for him. Great squadron. Within a year they have gone from the best squadron in the wing to the worst. What happened?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What does this have to do with anything relating to the current situation at the Academy? Any CO that spends his life solving the problems of his subordinates is clueless and obviously has no comprehension of what command means and what the chain of command is all about and how it is used. It may be easier to make points by framing a situation in terms of extremes but as far as this reality is concerned it is also irrelevant. The most disturbing aspect of this thread is the feeling that is coming across from many of the Mids that the voices of the Brigade are not being heard. Not through a lack of effort or their failure to use the chain of command but through a perceived lack of interest on the part of the Supt. I don’t know how accurate that observation is as I am not a member of the Brigade. I will say there are few perceptions that are more damaging to moral or corrosive to any chain of command than the notion that the observations or opinions of subordinates are not being considered and worse, that there is no interest in even hearing them. A CO doesn’t have to agree or act on the observations, but he/she should never make those under their command feel this way. Telling people to just suck it in because after all we’re all war is equally mind-boggling. If moral isn’t a priority now, when we are at war, when should it be? </p>
<p>
[quote]
Have the Company Officers, Battalion Officers, and Commandant and Staff been an effective leadership team over the past four years are have they simply been responding to the knee-jerk orders of a very popular Supt who was everywhere and knew everything, simply putting out fires, many of which were irrelevant?
[/quote]
What do we apparently have now? A Supt that is no where and has not conveyed an interest in hearing from those subordinate to him? This is a role model? </p>
<p>Obviously I don’t posses the firsthand knowledge of day to day operations that the upperclassmen who have posted here do, the only time I have seen the Supt is on I-day and PPW.
The one thing that struck me as odd on PPW was the Supt’s departure from the stage at the completion of his remarks. An action not followed by any of the other speakers who all spoke and then returned to their seats to listen to the comments of the speakers that followed. Perhaps he had something better to do, a meeting whatever. Were it not for the comments that have been posted on this issue I would not have given it another thought. </p>
<p>What I have heard to date on the elimination of EC’s and the thought process relating to increased study hours must have been thought up by someone who neither has kids or even remotely understands human nature. People are ultimately successful through a desire to succeed, be it in their studies at the Naval Academy or in command afterwards.</p>
<p>rjrzoom- your comment as to the abrupt departure of the new Supe was dead-on, and raises very interesting points. at the 2/c Supe's and Dant's call on the 2nd day of reform, the Supe came onstage, delivered his new gospel, and then hustled himself off the stage. no q&a sessions, no questions. while this is his prerogative, let me remind that every flag officer and speaker i have ever heard at the academy in the last two years has answered questions and embraced feedback: ADM Rempt, CAPT Grooms, Arthur Schlesinger, ADM Mullen...the list goes on and on, and includes CAPT Klein.
Speaking shortly after ADM Fowler, CAPT Klein followed suit and practically raced off the stage. there has clearly been policy shift when it comes to feedback.</p>
<p>Exactly, and the fact that many of the changes are 180 out from what Fowler has embraced and spoken of in the past make me think that these directives are coming from on high. </p>
<p>I know, I am not in the Navy, but having been a Navy wife for 15 years, through recruiting duty (2 tours) sub duty (as a 24 year old command ombudsman) and then sub/shore duty in Naples (that's where the sign about morale was) I have seen a few things. So, while I proudly wear my Mom pin, I can also tell you that submariners are a breed apart, as are recruiters. My husband predicted changes when he heard a submariner was taking over, just as he did when Grooms became Dant (heck, he served with Grooms when Grooms was an LT). It is a small Navy. </p>
<p>Anyway, I am sending off a protein packed package for my son. Adapt and overcome. Oh, and our mid is not at squad tables, but at ?regimental? tables. Something like that. Oh, BTW, I remember one time my husband's sub came back after being extended on patrol to a total of 110 days and everyone was very thin. They were down to Pancake mix and peanut butter to eat. Guess it wasn't half bad.</p>
<p>OTOH, the mids are there not in a battle zone or on patrol, so the question is, how do you prepare for a famine? By starving? Come on. Do the math, get the quantity and quality issues ironed out (sounds like they are working on it) and feed the mids.</p>
<p>
[quote]
2010 is embracing her meddling moniker.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>sorry Whistlepig- embraced it long before.<br>
Sticks and stones and all of that.</p>
<p>And just like you don't come between a bear and her cub, same holds true here. I will breathe my last breath being a mom- and I pray I am half the one the woman before me is.</p>
<p>
[quote]
thanks for the warm welcome, (am wearing my meddling mom pin with pride
[/quote]
</p>
<p>usna1usna1- you go girl! And while I don't want to divert into politics, with any luck we'll be pinning one on Hilliary's chest soon! Someone has to straighten up this mess!</p>
<p>
[quote]
ALL members of the Meddling Mothers Brigade shall be inducted as honorary members of USNA Class of '69 ...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>LOL- now thats funny!
But honestly- have not done the time, so most undeserving!
Anyway, trying to cut USNA69 some slack tonight especially as he is trying to pause to rethink things a bit....don't want to squelsh any forward momentum, eternal optimist that I am!! Anyway, any one that feels that passionately about the Blue and Gold can't be all bad.... a little off course now and then, but that is why he has us meddling moms on here to make sure we correct his course now and again! I look at it this way- without us, he would not have the great kids to mentor in the first place. </p>
<p>
[quote]
If the changes are as drastic as they seem, something is broke. Broke bad.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>We are all painfully aware that the USNA made it to the front pages of the news this past year way too often, for behaviors unbecoming at best and criminal at worst, very, very sad for everyone- and no doubt especially painful for the alumni group. But it is hard to believe that these cases represent the "norm" and not the "exception." So to treat "all" as if it is "all bad" is "not good." People understand as long as they perceive that the punishment fits the crime, that it is targeted on the deserving few and not the universal many, if, in fact, it is the driving force behind the drastic measures being undertaken at this point in time. </p>
<p>Having said that, total elimination of ECA's, spirit week, etc- is not the way to go, IMO. "Temporarily suspend" I can understand. "Earn them back" I can also apreciate. "Total elimination" is going overboard, IMO.</p>
<p>I am hoping whatever message is being sent "has been heard and is being heard," and that the pendulum can find a more neutral position before the morale of the midshipmen hits rock bottom. </p>
<p>I have to be honest- these reports that the supe has left the stage after his remarks, the total disconnect from any interaction or feedback from or with the Brigade, his lack of presence- is counterproductive. I am not sure what "presense" his LLL is having. "No interaction" speaks volumes, and to this ear, untrained as it may be in military ways, plain old STINKS.</p>
<p>These are the best and the brightest.
Is this the way to deal with them?
Listen- Learn-Lead.
That is what he said.
What happened to the listening?</p>
<p>"Listening"....it is an ACTIVE thing. It is give AND take.<br>
How the heck do you lead if you come across as not caring a damm about who you are leading?
Intended or not, that is the message that is increasingly coming across.</p>
<p>So USNA69- you are right in that something is terribly wrong. Just not so sure we are looking under the same carpet for what that is. But if the fish stinks, it stinks from the head on down- and not the other way around. IMHO.</p>
<p>Not only will there be march-ons for the football games, but now the Mids will be graded on them.</p>
<p>WOW!</p>
<p>Well, I will admitt they could use some more marching in practices! (sorry mids!!!!)</p>
<p>....(and hate to have to say this, but as sharp as they look, they are a tad outshined by those kay-dets that march in during Army-Navy.... :o )....</p>
<p>Thank you, Wheelah44, Jadler, and Jeebus. </p>
<p>I hope my plebe is fortunate enough to be in the same company as one of you.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is where we differ and nothing anyone can say on this forum can convince me that a VADM got where he was by being as bad as he is being portrayed with these posts.</p>
<p>2010, thanks for directing us to the gomids website. I gave up on it long ago because I could not wade through all the "If football players didn't have to go to class, be a part of the Brigade, wear uniforms, or live in Bancroft Hall, we might have a good football team" posts. If you can wade through, there is a young black shoe grad faculty member who is saying that the Academy should be embarassed as to what they have been placing in the fleet the last several years. I know, a single opinion. However, an opinion of someone who knows the system and has been on the inside at the Academy for a couple of years. I have been hearing the same, but of course my observations somehow transfer back 40 years and become irrelavent.</p>
<p>Chain of Command: We may be on to something here. ADM Rempt was any and every where. I am not sure, but I bet he was tweaking the system from the inputs he was receiving. THIS IS HORRIBLE LEADERSHIP. Perhaps, just perhaps, the chain of command is broken and all hands are attempting to fix it. This is really none of the business of the brigade to parade commissioned officers who need to do their job better. Hence the silence. In that Firsties are wearing khakis, however, might be indicative that he also created the same problem in the Brigade. FACT: Adm Fowler answers only, and I emphasize only, to the CNO. He owes answeres only, and I emphasize only, to those directly below him in the chain of command; the Commandant, the Athletic Director, and the Academic Dean (and maybe the Admissions Officer, not absolutely sure of the entire command structure, the remainder who really are of no concern for the purpose of this discussion).</p>
<p>Quality, quantity of food insufficient, students complain</p>
<p>
[quote]
Gravy for breakfast. Sandwiches on moldy bread for lunch. One slice of pizza for dinner.</p>
<p>Midshipmen at the Naval Academy have discovered an unexpected downside of the new superintendent's requirement that everyone eat on campus: There's not enough food, and what there is has been less than appetizing.</p>
<p>Since classes began last week, Mids and their parents have been complaining about the quality and quantity of food at the meals they must eat together....
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Now that this problem has been exposed by the media, I am confident that the food problem at USNA will be corrected post haste. If not, you will probably see some forced resignations and/or firings. Can you say Walter Reed?</p>