dismissed first semester Freshman year - any advice

Parents Forum
241

<p>I can’t even imagine receiving such a call. There are indeed worse things than failing!</p>

<p>Several things helped my son to pick up the pieces after his resignation. One was the responsibility of a 30+ hr/week job combined with full-time studies at CC. The other was succeeding at a physical challenge. In his case, he backpacked 200 miles in 14 days through the Sierra Nevadas. It was very demanding, and he nearly bailed several times, but the pride and sense of accomplishment upon completing the hike helped restore the missing pieces of his self-confidence. Plus it gave him some great material for essays when he transferred from CC to 4-yr school (i.e. “I was stalked by a mountain lion…”)</p>

<p>I recognize that outdoors activities are not everyone’s cup of tea, but for some kids, maybe participating or working for a program like Outward Bound might help.</p>

242

<p>This whole thread would be good for incoming freshmen to read in the weeks before school starts, say July or August…</p>

243

<p>Prosser: This reminds me of a discussion on another thread I saw a while ago. A lot of young people do not realize that they do not qualify for FAFSA if they have a felony drug conviction. I hate to see young people make mistakes from which there is no recovery.</p>

<p>I hope your son will find a university that will accept him and get a quality education and make the most of his life. When he’s living his dream, he can quietly revel in the fact that he’s beating out graduates of XYZ university that didn’t accept him in real life.</p>

244

<p>“I hope your son will find a university that will accept him and get a quality education and make the most of his life.”</p>

<p>Centh,
What an incredibly kind & decent comment. Thank you.</p>

<p>I THINK we might be starting to get a handle on all this after a lot of turmoil - our son joked (just a little wanly) yesterday that he blames us for letting him watch “Mighty Duck” movies when he was a kid - when the underdog-losers triumph in the end. Because, he growled, when you turn YOURSELF into a loser, life isn’t kind like that.</p>

<p>I understand that jokes are just another defensive mechanism - still, it’s better than seething, or despair, or feeling paralyzed with self-reproach (as parents) for not having protected him more skillfully from some idiotic tendencies we knew he had.
I’ll shut up now. But again, thanks.</p>

245

<p>CTCL parents …thanks for sharing your disappointment with the promise and the action by these schools. I think it isn’t just those schools becoming less tolerant and humane. My brother went to one of these colleges and did run into a very serious drug situation and failing grades as a Freshman. He did get another chance despite being on financial aid and an athletic scholarship. He was neither a super star athelete or genius or anything special…just a kid who made some stupid choices as a newly minted 18 year old on his own for the first time.</p>

<p>His professors and coach basically took special care of him after a terrible first semester and he saw the light by sophmore year. Our parents didn’t know about the drug problem (luckily law enforcement not involved) until my brother confessed years later. My parents now make annual contributions to the school. I actually think that the faculty and staff that were at the schools in the 1980’s made the school’s response more flexible and humane. Drug laws are so much stricter now and the school would be crucified if they didn’t turn kids in for the illegal drug use at school. Also, there is a level of intolerance in general in this country for screwing up that we didn’t have before. My parents in grad school in the 60’s had probably experimented themselves and so had the staff at the university…and that experience provides a level of understanding and empathy that seems to be missing today. Witness the total inability of a school to even consider a kid with a felony conviction (for whatever crime) or a dismissal from a college for behavior. There isn’t even a chance to show a new side/growth/maturity and a second chance. So sad because that used to be the beauty of the US educational system–there are second, third and even fourth chances for everyone–we never should give up on someone…accepting with reservations/conditions is OK, blackballing young mistake-makers is unAmerican. I can’t believe that my kid is freaking out over being lazy and getting a C on a midterm report…“it will ruin my chances”…OMG! if a school turns you away because you had a senioritis moment in a class…perhaps that school is not for normal human (flawed) beings!? Personally, I would hope my son goes to a school where he is able to meet kids who really screwed up, turned themselves around and came back to share with the newbies what they learned the hard way. I wish schoools would see these kids as “hooked” candidates rather than damaged goods–they have a perspective/experience that would be valuable to their classmates.</p>

246

<p>“Drug laws are so much stricter now and the school would be crucified if they didn’t turn kids in for the illegal drug use at school.”</p>

<p>Fineartsmajormom,
You’ve reminded me of a very sobering fact - which might be of use to other parents - if they need ammunition when advising headstrong kids before college!</p>

<p>When our son’s college found a small amount of an illegal “soft” drug in his dorm room (midnight room search, because of noise), they duly called in the local city police, who came, & arrested our son on suspicion of possession (based on what our talkative lad had said to the college staff). He was then charged with misdemeanor possession, after a night in a cell. He was unambiguously advised to plead not guilty by his lawyer, and the criminal charge was promptly dismissed. </p>

<p>Because of his NG plea and the dismissal, his record was expunged. That is, the lawyer took the correct steps to restore his unblemished record.
The intention here is to protect your reputation:(since an arrest and charge “looks” bad on their own - even if you are completely cleared later). </p>

<p>In legal terms, our son can now - once again -accurately answer “no” to the question (say in a job application or similar) “have you ever been arrested?”.</p>

<p>We duly sent all the court records to the college, requesting they remove ONLY the mention of our son being “arrested” from his official conduct record. (That is, we accepted totally that all the other circumstances would stand as described, including what was found & what our son was reported to have said to dorm staff. The conduct report ended with the fact that the police arrested our son on suspicion of possession - and we asked for that sentence to be deleted.)</p>

<p>We thought the college would abide by the protection of reputation legally established by the court.</p>

<p>No dice.</p>

<p>The college replied in a letter (and I quote): “As a private institution…[t]he University’s system is distinct and separate from the criminal court system. As a result, the student conduct report will remain intact.”</p>

<p>This was another blow.</p>

<p>(And I admit I was genuinely taken aback. We - his parents - had figured - foolishly - that the college might have WANTED to draw a veil over the fact they had invited the town police to deal with a situation in a dorm, which resulted in a single charge being dismissed by the court. I had even hoped that the fact our son was a merit scholarship student at the college who hadn’t been in any trouble at all until that incident might have helped. We were wrong about that too.)</p>

247

<p>Thank you for sharing this very sad story. I can’t believe the school was so …stupid! After all the twaddle about helping young people grow up …they don’t even show the compassion of the courts to the unknown young person toward their own community of students. Crazy! I am so shocked and saddened by your story. I hope your son doesn’t lose the motivation to overcome this obstacle and his mistake. Anger is a good motivator sometime and, if he is ever willing to come out publically, he may want to share his story with kids at his old high school. I think this should be shared and shared again. How many kids do exactly what your son did and but for the grace of G are not caught or not punished in such an extreme way? </p>

<p>Your son sounds like he is really trying to deal with it and must be feeling guilty, depressed, angry and sorry for himself all at once. All valid and a lot to handle. Given your support combined with brutal honesty (you make no excuses for your son’s mistake) I feel that he will overcome this. It may be worthwhile to have a full year of CC under his belt plus community activities and work and then make an appointment with university admissions and have him present his situation and ask for consideration of admission.<br>
I wish you the very best outcome for your son.</p>

248

<p>“Anger is a good motivator sometime and, if he is ever willing to come out publically, he may want to share his story with kids at his old high school. I think this should be shared and shared again. How many kids do exactly what your son did and but for the grace of G are not caught or not punished in such an extreme way?”</p>

<p>Amazing you should say that, fineartsmajormom.</p>

<p>Our son said something similar not long ago - and because he said it more in a thoughtful “if ONLY I had known how deadly serious this was before…” rather than “how dumb and unfair…” way, we felt he was beginning to direct his anger at a more productive target (a bit!).</p>

<p>It’s also helpful - finally - to even talk about it here.
We - my husband and I and our other child - have otherwise kept very, very quiet. Not out of shame, so much - as dreading endless family gossip, or other parents muttering darkly “no smoke without fire” - the sort of nonsense I’ve been guilty of myself.</p>

<p>(Though I did smile inwardly once recently. I was talking to an acquaintance - and someone else suddenly asked her “oh, I heard your daughter is suddenly back at home from college?..”. And the acquaintance got a very furtive look, and started blabbing very strangely about how her daughter’s “allergies” had made college a total nightmare, and how she was going to have a “rest” for a while. And I admit I privately thought “hmmmm, I wonder what “allergies” is code for!” I suspect once or twice I’ve also overdone silly chatter about how my son’s course was so terribly “unsuitable”.)</p>

<p>Thank you very much for your lovely (smart) words. </p>

<p>Right now, I am just so relieved to be a year beyond that phone call from the college “your son has been arrested - but since he is 18, we can’t tell you why…”</p>

<p>(and I am fully aware, of course, there are far, far worse phone calls for parents.)</p>

249

<p>[The college replied in a letter (and I quote): “As a private institution…[t]he University’s system is distinct and separate from the criminal court system. As a result, the student conduct report will remain intact.”]</p>

<p>In my state, they would probably have to remove it. It’s illegal to discuss annulled arrests and convictions in our state. There was an interesting case of an election where one of the candidates had been arrested when younger and it was annulled. His opponent was high-up in law enforcement and apparently pulled his records and leaked them to the press. Someone else in law enforcement apparently helped him do this. Those two were given the choice of facing charges or resigning. They resigned. The guy with the annulment is suing those two for a quarter of a million each. I think that he is also suing the newspaper that wrote about his arrest.</p>

250

<br>

<br>

<p>The must read book for college students on my list is Until Proven Innocent, both for sons and daughters. Not a bad read for parents too. Bad enough that your son has been arrested for xyz but having to spend a million on legal expenses can really ruin your year.</p>

251

<p>My very good friend has a son attending a Jesuit college in Penn who is now home as a result of the police presence on and around campus. The off campus parties have been hit with police, who are on a citation binge. In one weekend there were a reported 400 or so citations written. The school has permitted the police to stop students and do random breathilizer test for suspected drinking. The police have also been using tazers when students flee from the parties. I can not believe this is going on at any college today. When we went to college, marajuana was present everywhere as well as much harder drugs. Could someone explain what is to gain from this type of action on a campus?
My friends son is so upset that the college he looked forward to attending, has become the place he dreaded. He is a non drinker but in P.A if police come to break up a party, he too would be sited just for being in the presence of alcohol.</p>

252

<p>momma-three – the happened to the S of a friend of mine at a college in PA, too (about 20 years ago). Charged with underage drinking at a party he attended. He pleaded no contest rather than tell his parents. When his folks found out after his court date, they were more upset that he hadn’t called for help/advice/a lawyer than that he’d had a beer at a frat party. (And yes, it was one stinkin’ beer. And he was 20.)</p>

<p>No wonder our kids are so stressed about overachievement sometimes – the consequences for doing one stupid thing can be life-changing. It’s hard to learn how to fail and recover these days. Heaven knows not many of us get into adulthood WITHOUT doing something seriously stupid. </p>

<p>Prosser, your S will achieve his goals and he <em>will</em> find a school that will view what he did in context of what has come since that time, and accept his efforts. I’m glad you feel it helps to come here to talk about it.</p>

<p>In the meantime, I’d contemplate what my dh calls a “lawyer letter” to your S’s former school. Basically, it outlines the law regarding their actions and what actions one could consider taking. It doesn’t threaten action, but delineates that you know what the law/regs state regarding their behavior. While the school may not want to make it “go away,” certainly their report could make note that charges were dismissed and while they may not want him back, they could write something that doesn’t leave your S hanging without hope of redemption elsewhere. (We found this type of letter useful with school administrators who wanted to pull power plays rather than follow specific school system and ADA policies.)</p>

253

<p>At my son’s school the police generally leave the parties alone. Last year, there was an apartment almost above the police station and they had big parties on Thursday nights and the police would just chat with them from the sidewalk (they partied on a balcony). Never saw them go in or arrest anyone or give anyone a problem.</p>

<p>If you have drugs or alcohol on campus, the campus police will go after you so people party off-campus. At least the bright ones do.</p>

<p>As far as college files go, who sees these? Employers and other schools typically want to see transcripts. Do they request other information too?</p>

254

<p>I dropped out after sophomore year. Went to CC. Joined the military. Ended up being a “success” eventually. So, I’ve actually travelled the path that many here have advised the OP.</p>

<p>But to be really honest, I missed two wonderful years as a transitional adult in college, and I’ve always regretted that I didn’t stay a “normal” kid for two more years. I’ll never get to do that again, and it still fills me with regret and sadness.</p>

<p>I share this because some of the comments here could lead a parent of one of the drop out kids to think he’s fine just because he enrolled in CC and did okay, and then transferred to a 4-year later.</p>

<p>The drop out grades, and the tortured undergrad history cost me a job 13 years later (as a top law school grad). </p>

<p>So these kids have a tough path ahead of them. Just understand that.</p>

255

<p>^^^ I don’t think anybody (or at least not many people) are encouraging dropping out and heading to CC at the first sign of trouble. I think people are mainly talking about kids who’ve been dismissed and can’t get back in, or kids who have had multiple tries and it is looking more like 7 transitional years without a transition. Of course it won’t be easy, but sometimes it is what it is.</p>

<p>I also dropped out and went back after a few years. My only conclusion from that was that I probably shouldn’t have started out when I did - I wasn’t mature enough. It took a few years working to convince me that going through life without a degree was a no-win situation.</p>

<p>It is really bizarre to me that after graduation from a top law school somebody held your undergraduate grades from 13 years earlier against you. But I’ve read of employment interviews where places asking for people’s SAT scores mid-career, so I guess anything is possible. I don’t want to go into details, but I had an incredibly checkered youth during my “drop-out” period, and after proving myself in the workforce it didn’t have any effect on me.</p>

256

<p>MSUDAD ^^^^ </p>

<p>I hope that my daughters one year attendance at CC does not somehow make her appear less qualified 8 or 10 years from now when she is a more mature young women.I see the benefits now and that is what I am grateful for. I think that the decision we made to have her withdraw was probably the most difficult, well thought out decision we had to make regarding our daughter. I also hope that it does not backfire on her later…I would feel awful. I also think that it will be up to her right now to turn things around and make the most of this year.</p>

257

<p>Although this article is from 2002, it is still quite relevant to this thread.</p>

<p>[The</a> dropout dilemma: One in four college freshmen drop out. What is going on here? What does it take to stay in? | Careers and Colleges | Find Articles at BNET](<a href=“http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTR/is_4_22/ai_84599442/]The”>http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTR/is_4_22/ai_84599442/)</p>

258

<p>After reading through this thread and dealing with my own situation (one of three children currently in college who failed to make satisfactory academic progress first semester freshman year, now home attending CC due to loss of financial aid), I am reminded that universities have no motivation to maintain merit and need based aid to students. Those are recruiting tools, but not necessarily retention tools. If a student loses their scholarship due to grades or conduct, that money goes back into the pot to offer to the next year’s new-to-college recruited class. Some parents will pay the full ticket, if they can afford it, for the kid to remain at the university, so that’s more straight income for the university. Some kids will drop out, which also helps the university to manage the size of the classes.</p>

259

<p>It never “helps” a college when students flunk, drop out or transfer. Some may not care all that much about retention and graduation rates, but it doesn’t help them.</p>

260

<p>“I hope that my daughters one year attendance at CC does not somehow make her appear less qualified 8 or 10 years from now when she is a more mature young women.”</p>

<p>Her CC attendance isn’t going to hurt her. At most, people will care about where she got her undergraduate or graduate/professional school degrees. I know plenty of highly successful people who went to community college. This includes a bank VP, state politicians, and a woman who during an illustrious journalism career got a highly competitive fellowship to Harvard.</p>