<p>But in history of western civilization you may only read 50-100 pages per week and you can expect anywhere from 200-500+ per week in germany during the nazi era. I made the mistake of taking three 300 level social sciences my first semester and had over a thousand pages of reading to do per week, sometimes more than that in a day-- plus papers and a lab science class, which was completely infeasible. I actually can’t think of a single instance in which going into more specific detail didn’t make the course harder.</p>
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<p>That was VERY ambitious! </p>
<p>When D and I went to a science round table discussion at Rice during Owl Days, the question was asked whether Rice allowed kids to sign up for advanced classes based on AP credits. The answer given was that, at least in the science area, they strongly suggested that kids not accelerate, but that they spend the time to REALLY learn the subject. It made sense to me.</p>
<p>I think in general large lecture survey classes may have more surface area to cover, but that the smaller classes of something more specific might not be easier in terms of reading, but in terms of the material. We all took US history in HS, but I remembered none of it. Then I took US History to 1936 or something and then 1936 to the present (over course at the time this covered the same number of years!). It was much easier to chunk the material.</p>
<p>S’s school also only accepts AP credit for electives except in Math. Since he isn’t a math guy, but did fairly OK, he skipped Calc I for Calc II and did fine, but admitted he was “getting through.” Had he been an engineering major or something, I would not have recommended the jump. He has a friend at UCLA who struggled mightily using his AP math and physics credits to jump ahead. I think he too is on academic probation.</p>
<p>I think those first year seminars and other similarly called classes are a nice way to adjust to college life. Usually, it’s something the kid chooses, but the program/class has a lot of other goals as an adjustment to college.</p>
<p>I also think it’s somewhat naive to think that kids are going to be calling and telling you their every grade and I also think it’s somewhat not the point. Yes, it’d be nice to have a parent/teacher conference on some level, and clearly outlined expectations are important, but at some point the kid has to utilize the resources the school has available. Seems to me that MOST issues with first semester freshman is their unwillingness to truly seek the help that is there for the taking. So… encourage your kid to meet with their teachers in HS and take care of issues as they come up without your involvement to the extent that it’s possible. Preparing a kid for college is less about their academic prowess than it is about learning time management, organization and self-advocacy. For those kids who take all those AP classes and dual enrollments for college level work, they should be running their schedule as much as they can.</p>
<p>Just wanted to offer encouragement to OP. As parents, we all can feel that gut-wrenching emotion you must be dealing with right now! So very sorry. I want to say that there is some rock solid advice within the following posts. I personally know someone who was dismissed from the Naval Academy after a semester (failed math and wasn’t doing well in other courses/he really didn’t want to actually be there); joined the Army for a few years and then went to UVa, where he graduated in three years, then went on to get a great job, family, yadda, yadda. There are many options; your son just has to decide which route now to take.</p>
<p>Love this thread – so many lessons to be learned. Here’s a bit of advice courtesy of my D, who just returned to dorm living after a month at home. Her common refrain to those who live on her hall: “Go to bed!” She’s known as the girl who is routinely in her pj’s by 12:30 am, and is not afraid to tell the boys who live directly above her to turn off their music and stop ‘bowling’ with traffic cones in the hallways at 3 in the morniing. I wish RA’s would institute and enforce quiet hours in the dorm so that individuals who want sleep have a chance. It has not been easy to go against social norms, but going to bed at a regular time every night helped her to ward off migraine headaches, weight gain, and poor grades. Oh, and ear plugs were a life saver!</p>
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<p>The military academy dismissals must be SO difficult for the student and his/her family. Our school district makes such an incredibly big deal about the military academy appointments -an officer comes to the school to make a presentation, the kids’ pictures are published in all the papers, etc. Last fall I went out of my way to ask the dad of an appointee how his son was doing … he’d come home after only a few weeks and I could tell that the dad didn’t want to talk about it.</p>
<p>I will say this… (and I’ve said it elsewhere)… it is a lonely feeling to have a kid not doing well in college. In the spring, everyone is on cloud 9 with acceptances and all the celebrations of graduation etc. Come this time of year when there are definitely some struggles, there are a lot of tight smiles and as Missy points out, things parents don’t want to talk about. I think it’s important to understand, even if your kid is doing well, that the old “there but for the grace of God go my kid” applies. </p>
<p>Thankful for threads like this and the experiences of those willing to share, I made a point at a meeting on Monday to NOT say that son had done reasonably well first semester and just said that he would say it’s a good fit. The other thing that I don’t thnk is mentioned much is that we invest in our children emotionally and financially obviously. But it’s important to really understand that neither their failures OR their successes are yours as parents as well. What I think we, as a society, don’t talk about enough is that failure usually offers the most worthwhile lessons.</p>
<p>Look… my H took a big risk about a dozen years ago starting a new venture and convincing not a few people that a rather large capital investment was prudent etc. Well, it failed = and it was a long, slow and very painful death during probably the best economic times this country enjoyed. BUT… what he learned was invaluable and has touched just about everything he’s done since. His largest personal failure was crucial to his current success. It’s painful at the time for sure, but when I read so many different paths to success on all the threads on CC, I know that for most, they will find their way. If there is no addiction or abuse going on, the odds are even greater.</p>
<p>“First semester freshman year is not the time for a lot of advanced classes - seriously!”</p>
<p>Parents should be aware that some top colleges (I know this is true in my daughter’s lac) push the kids into advanced classes from the beginning. My daughter’s advisor flat-out told her that if she was smart enough to get in, she was smart enough to take the advanced classes. A number of freshmen take Organic Chem and other kids-- like my daughter-- were pushed into advanced Calculus when they would have preferred to take Calc I. Oh, and we thought we could avoid this by not taking the AP exam. Nope! The advisor looks at the student’s high school transcript and, in some subjects, gives him/her placement tests.</p>
<p>^^Nice post and good advice for parents who meet up with parents whose kids stayed home after first semester. In my oldest son’s experience somewhere between 5-10% of the 160 or so kids that went off to college from a small public high school that sends over 80% on to college did not go back after first semester. The reasons were varied from lack of academic progress to lack of satisfaction in college choice to desire to work and go somewhere else far away the following fall. Three years later most of his graduating class is chugging along in life quite nicely.</p>
<p>And one point people have not made explicitly (though impliedly) is that MANY times in life (from here on out) you will have FAILURE…and FAILURE can be the most invigorating learning experiences for a person and provide them with a kaleidoscope of opportunity.</p>
<p>Its a lot about attitude, self deprecating humor (oops! that didnt work out too well, did it Bob?) and believing in yourself.</p>
<p>Some of history’s most successful CEO’s and military leaders will ALL tell you, they had their best learning experiences from FAILURE.</p>
<p>Besides, there is nothing more inane and boring than listening to someone (many of whom are on cc) bragging about all their perfect world accomplishments as if they are made of teflon. Trust me, they are FULL OF BEANS.</p>
<h1>128: Advisors give advice, not dictates.</h1>
<p>Unfortunately, at my kid’s small liberal arts school, you cannot sign up for anything unless your advisor approves. They can wield a lot of power, especially in small schools where they only have a handful of students.</p>
<p>From Modadunn
And from ghostbuster:
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<p>That which doesn’t kill us, makes us stronger.</p>
<p>So much depends on the individual as well. Our S had taken & done well in many APs. He COULD have pushed the advisor to allow him to exempt out of several courses but chose to go along with the advisor’s recommendations & re-take ALL the calculus and physics. The result was that he had a very easy 1st 3 semesters in EE and now has a lot of upper level courses for his last 5 semesters. </p>
<p>A friend’s S pushed the advisor to allow him to exempt out & start upper level courses as a freshman. He had more work earlier but will have more options to spread out the upper level courses over a longer period of time.</p>
<p>For our S, the review coursework allowed him to spend his energy socializing and find his niche in the large U with very little academic pressure. For our friend’s S, he absolutely refused to re-take coursework he felt he had already adequately mastered. Both are satisfied with their choices.</p>
<p>“That which doesn’t kill us, makes us stronger.”
This is an expression my kids are tired of hearing and experiencing. They individually and collectively have already faced and overcome signficant adversity. They do recognize the truth in the statement but would prefer it was more abstract, for obvious reasons.</p>
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<p>We can all say that, and it’s true for many people. But face it - we all know people who dropped out of college and never really did much of anything. My bright and funny and cultured HS friend who wanted to be an Industrial Psychologist (before I’d ever heard of such a thing) dropped out of college; my mom sees her all the time because my friend has been a grocery store checker all these years. Isn’t that what really strikes terror in our hearts? That our child won’t rise to the occasion in the face of adversity?</p>
<p>My inlaws know a guy who was fired in the air traffic controllers strike of 1981, got a fast food job to make ends meet and stayed there. No, he didn’t end up owning 50 McDonalds franchises - he’s worked fast food these almost 30 years. I know that’s an extreme example, but I just want to be honest that a bit of failure can be terrifying because not everyone has the character to turn it around. </p>
<p>I’m not prediciting failure for any of our kids…I’m just saying that as parents, some fear is legitimate.</p>
<p>^^^Agreed. </p>
<p>I didn’t mean to be cavalier about it. Some people can use failure to learn and benefit from it. Others can be crushed by failure. The latter is a parent’s worst fear (educationally speaking).</p>
<p>Much more common than you might think. After all, people generally don’t put big signs in their front yard blaring “My kid just flunked out of Harvard.” (Local custom is to put sweatshirts on front door of ED college on acceptance day).</p>
<p>My son ran into quite a few of his former HS classmates at the local community college after he (and apparently they) went away to college and it “didn’t work out.” We would often hear the familiar stories about too much partying, but in many cases it was kept so quiet there was no story. Parents get very embarrassed.</p>
<p>^^
So true, my daughter has run into a few kids from our town who now attend the CC. There is not a parent in this town who would share with anyone that their kid attends CC. This type of attitude only makes it harder on the kids who are trying to turn it around.</p>
<p>If we, as a family, didn’t value education or in some way were content with underachievement, perhaps there would have been more cause for the kind of fear Missy describes. And yes, I DID have some fear for older D when she dropped out of college and did not really even talk about going back to school for almost four years. It was disappointing, I admit. And there was a year in there I’d sooner forget. However, I had to really let some things go and to her credit, she got a job and moved into her own place and since she wasn’t asking us for money, we didn’t really have say in her life, but we kept the door open (made much easier by my H). But the truth is, there is not one person going back before my great grandmother who had not graduated college. There was/is an expectation there. And maybe it’s not about “college” as much as it is education and doing something worthy of your brains and talent. </p>
<p>So, while we may know people who never amounted to much (and believe me, I know some trust-fund kids that couldn’t get a job at McDonalds but who live quite well on their inheritances and still have not amounted to much), I think if you keep the doors open there is a good chance that even if there are a few rough years in there, things will work out. However, if you save your loved one from the “simple” failures, life will keep knocking them down until they get it for themselves and those continuous NEAR knock downs (if being saved) will just keep getting bigger. That’s when the risk not being able to recover. The only time failure really hurts is if you cannot reflect and learn something from it. And my older D will absolutely admit she spent a lot of time blaming other people and not being accountable for the consequences of her own choices. Even our younger D was talking about a girl at school who doesn’t do well at all academically and is constantly blaming the teachers. Finally she said to this girl, it can’t ALWAYS be someone else unless you never look in the mirror.</p>
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<p>Very wise words. I’m amazed when I read threads where parents are seeking advice on how to get their kids reinstated at colleges where they have been academically dismissed or prevent the dismissal in the first place. What is the lesson in that? That Mommy and Daddy will always be there to bail you out?</p>
<p>Like it or not, these are young adults we are talking about and they have to learn that there are consequences to their actions and the only way to learn that is to live with those consequences.</p>
<p>Painful as it is to see our kids verve off the beaten path, I do think most kids from families where college is a big priority manage to eventually get their acts together and go on to earn that degree.</p>
<p>I’m thankful there are so many parents on this forum who are willing to share their own painful experiences. In real life, many people tend to only want to share the glory, not the pain.</p>