<p>fabrizio
“reveals a lot about a person’s value system”
it would be nice if you could respond without all the personalization</p>
<p>i stand by by comments</p>
<p>and sewhappy the state flagships and their honors programs have huge problems too. In many states thousands of qualified students “top talent”
as you say are denied access due to economics. Again take a look at Berkeley,
African American percentage, barely exists, undergrad out of state “talent” - forget it. Here in Pa, PSU main campus, a bastion of racism and economic discrimination.</p>
<p>I’ve read the entire thread and think this is the most insightful post yet. I agree completely. And I would add that there is also no set African American or Hispanic or White applicants, either.</p>
<p>There are still many among us - including many on the admissions committees of elite colleges - who refuse to accept that we are in a post-race society now. It’s about talent and drive and creativity and leadership and it really needs to stop being about race.</p>
<p>Harvard and Yale made headlines by abandoning EA. They could make bigger headlines by no longer asking applicants to disclose their race.</p>
<p>What a nonsense. Do you know what are you talking about? </p>
<p>It is the value system. Higher education is affordable to all if you are willing. If you think you are entitled and others should pay then it is not. Although as others have pointed out there are lot of differences in ‘asians’, but there is one common value system and that is education. I know of several dozen asian families who work 4 minimum wage jobs, get loans, grants who do not have cable, flat screen TVs or cell phones, but their kids do go to college.</p>
<p>‘Economic discrimination’ what a fancy word from entitled - give me more mindset.</p>
<p>Has anyone considered that this is a good thing for Asian people? It is common knowledge, at least in California, that Asians are subject to many disadvantages in college admissions. It’s therefore assumed that Asian graduates are superior to non-Asian graduates because they had to work so much harder just to get there (not to mention the work ethic expected of them - or I guess, more properly, us - once they’re in college). I know at my local hospitals a lot of people put in specific requests for Asian doctors because they are assumed to be better. Conversely, many people I know are highly suspicious of black and Hispanic lawyers and doctors because they know that in most cases they got in with less merit.</p>
<p>So I know that if I get into a HYPS-MC, UC Berkeley/LA, Ivy type of school, as an (half) Asian person, people will instantly think higher of my abilities and I can probably make more money. In the long run, it might be good for Asian people to be subjected to so many institutional disadvantages.</p>
<p>^^That is exceedingly bizarre. It is not beneficial for someone with lofty expectations to be held back from achieving goals like getting into elite colleges. I guess if you get into HYP anyway, then it would be beneficial because people will assume you are smarter than the average HYP person. However, if the discrimination is happening there, then you indeed did have to clear a higher bar to get there.</p>
<p>the fact that whites are decreasingly valuing education and grades, and instead overemphasizing sports (not to mention a culture that encourages sports > school) shouldn’t make this a surprise to anyone.</p>
<p>Its worrisome that American secondary education as a whole has made little progress in ratcheting up education in a time when an educated, ethical workforce is needed in an increasingly competitive world.</p>
<p>Russia, china, and india have painted targets on our back and have zeroed in. If we americans don’t start acting now, we’re pretty much screwed in 50 years. </p>
<p>10, 20 years from now, I think these cases are going to be more common as colleges find less and less motivated white students and only a huge number of asians and foreign students trying hard to get a good education.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, it ****es me off that my chances at the schools I am applying to are cut by the fact that I’m 1/2 3rd generation Chinese. But, it’s also kinda cool that when people see me at a law firm, they’ll say, “I want the Chinese guy who had to work twice as hard.”</p>
<p>No, it’s not a good idea for people to subject to institutional advantages or disadvantages based on their “racial classification.” It would just mean that we have made no progress since the 1960s, that individuals are still being judged based on their “race.”</p>
<p>That particular quotation was expressed in general terms. Anyone who believes that how significant discrimination is determines its importance should rethink his value system.</p>
<p>Colleges and universities rarely (if ever) publicize the admissions stats for different ethnic groups. Why is this? Some years back the local newspaper did a study of admissions and minorities in my state’s colleges and universities. URMs had SATs over 100 and in some places approaching 200 points below non-URMs. </p>
<p>Yes, it certainly would be nice to know just how the elites look at race. I found this online (perhaps it was discussed some years back on CC) about how Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology (#1 high school in the nation according to several sources) in NoVA chooses (chose?) its admittees. Even though the percentage of URMs there is far below the norm in Fairfax County, this man attempts to demonstrate in this article how there is still racial discrimination in favor of minorities there. What is fascinating is how the admissions committes go/went about determining who is/would be admitted to the school. Perhaps something similar might be going on at elite colleges and universities?</p>
<p>and click on the article about “Invidious Racial Discrimination in Admissions at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology.”</p>
<p>Of course the Sup’t of Fairfax County Public Schools responded in a way to discredit Cohen’s assertions, but who could expect him to do otherwise? </p>
<p>The study’s author has two children who were admitted to TJ and one who wasn’t accepted.</p>
<p>speedo, how does racial discrimination offset “economic discrimination.” I don’t know what you mean by economic discrimination. Do you mean that not everyone can afford certain colleges? If so, denying admission to a school on racial grounds does not help the people who cannot afford to go to that school.</p>
<p>I think colleges should be able to accept/deny anyone they want for any reason they want… they are private institutions. If you disagree with their philosophy, don’t apply!</p>
<p>If private colleges gave up their tax exempt status then sure, let them accept who they like. But in the meanwhile, enjoying tax benefits – at our cost – ought to subject them to a high standard that precludes racial discrimination.</p>
<p>Well, the moose-on-the-table or gorrilla-in-the-room or whatever you want to call it is this: Elite colleges a generation or so from now will depend very heavily on what their product (graduates) are actually accomplishing in the world. My own son is at Harvard. I hope that he and at least some of his fellow students follow in the footsteps of Bill Gates, who may not have graduated but had near perfect SATs and - if I’m remembering correctly - a fairly stellar gpa at a top private Seattle high school known for its rigor. </p>
<p>Bill Gates. The perfect reason why objective measures - test scores, grades, high school rigor - matter a lot, even if you are a hopeless nerd without any indication of the X factor.</p>
<p>And I hate his product, btw, and adore my MAC.</p>
<p>I agree with the general proposition that colleges ought to be able to decide what’s important to a college about an applicant. Some colleges look for potential, and some look for achievement that has already been demonstrated at high school age (defining "achievement or “potential” in various ways). I’m perfectly happy with the idea that colleges may make some of these decisions on rather arbitrary grounds that differ from the grounds of decision at some other college. Apply to the colleges you think you will like, and see what happens in the admission process, is always my advice to applicants. </p>
<p>that all colleges receiving federal funds (and that is 100 percent of the “elite” colleges in the United States) are not allowed to practice racial discrimination. (Moreover, most states also have state civil rights statutes to which colleges in each state are subject.) So colleges still have to take care, as arbitrarily as they choose students for their own college-specific purposes, that they do not discriminate on the basis of race. That’s the law.</p>
<p>“Elite colleges a generation or so from now will depend very heavily on what their product (graduates) are actually accomplishing in the world.”</p>
<p>My son was at one of those 7. He saw the institutional attitudes firsthand. He has instructed us not to give them a dime.</p>
<p>speedo: “any alleged discrimination that may have occurred is insignificant”? Really? Cf. my repeated explanation of the difference between GROUP and INDIVIDUAL. If even ONE PERSON experiences racial discrimination, that is illegal. You may of course argue that discrimination is not occurring, but to say that it is “insignificant” is just… mind-blowing.</p>