<p>While I don't like the word "owe," for some of the connotations, I do believe in the principle <em>in our case.</em> The generalized and unspoken but very real contract was, "If you do what you need to do, we will do what we need to do." She did it, we're doing it.</p>
<p>I realize everbody has a story to tell and circumstances that substantially color their view. I also realize that my opinion is based on my particular set of reference points, and not your's which obviously could differ radically.</p>
<p>My high school drop-out GED father paid substantially all of my tuition, fees, and books for college. He did the same for my 3 siblings. I worked full-time at part-time jobs for the majority of my living expenses and 100% of my neccessary luxuries. I was alternately resentful or under-appreciative as I was surrounded by students who did not have any financial responsibilities of any kind. I was embarrassed by my campus cafeteria job. I have been informed that all my siblings had similar feelings. Between us , he paid for 22 years of college. From oldest to youngest we are 8 years apart so there were periods of substantial overlap.</p>
<p>When my father realized he was slowly dying but quickly losing mental capacity he came to the gang of four and offered to establish trusts for each of his eight grandchildren for some of their college expenses, a sum sufficient to pay approximately one year's state school costs as "he had never had a chance to go to college himself and it was his greatest failure in life". I wanted to crawl under a rock with the other worms. We belatedly but strenuously suggested he take classes at the local college himself and he tried but his ability to concentrate and to perform higher mathematical functions was by then severely compromised . He failed. We suggested he take trips and spend every dollar he possibly could on lavish luxuries.Instead he bought two of my used cars because they were "perfectly good enough" for him and why should he spend any more when "he wasn't trying to impress anyone?". Most all of his assets were sucked away by a long and painful and expensive death. </p>
<p>I understand why some of you have difficulty with the word "owe", and I am not arguing the point. But given what I have been given, I have no problem with it at all.</p>
<p>Marite, I so agree with your position on those of us who are subsidizing students at State U. whose parents are perfectly capable of affording a college education.</p>
<p>My parents certainly don't think so</p>
<p>Good grief, NO. In the first place, they're not kids anymore, they're young adults. In the second place, these young adults owe it to themselves. What they do after high school is entirely up to them, not us, and starting around 17, it's up to them to decide how important a college education is. Still swamped in the great melodrama of high school, it IS up to them. </p>
<p>There is a television commercial that shows a daughter giving her mom a good report card for her mother's birthday. The jingly, sentimental background music starts up, and the mom, dad, and daughter all melt into tears and hugs, as if the daughter has just given her mother something so stupendously wonderful that it is worthy of a huge cry fest. Sylvan and many other expensive tutoring agencies profit because so many parents are buying into this idea that our <em>kids</em> owe us an education more than they owe it to themselves, and the peace and harmony of the family depend on it. </p>
<p>I say it again, they owe it to themselves.</p>
<p>The whole financial aid things bothers me, because the expected contribution is 10,000, when in reality, I'm getting nothing</p>
<p>"Besides, I've told my kids they're my old age insurance" - Marite</p>
<p>I had to laugh when I read that because my husband says D is our "retirement plan".</p>
<p>As for "owing" our children a college education, I don't believe "owe" is the correct term. I do believe we have a responsibility to encourage our children to be the best person possible in all aspects of their lives. Education is something that is so important to both my husband and myself. Fortunately, D has adopted that belief, too. </p>
<p>My husband and I are struggling with the knowledge that D, a high school junior, and an only child, will soon be leaving home for college. We are so very proud of her. She is an excellent student and what we consider to be well-rounded. I know there are so many opportunities out there for her. Because our state (Tennessee) offers a HOPE Scholarship (funded by our state lottery), we certainly wouldn't mind seeing her take advantage of that money - $4,000 per year. Selfishly, we would also like to see her stay in or around the state of Tennessee. We have encouraged her to apply to every school in which she has shown an interest, dream schools included. Several times she has mentioned that she does not want to graduate in debt. We certainly want to provide the best education possible for her, but at what expense? We have only one child, so I can't imagine what it must be like for parents who have several children. </p>
<p>The schools in which she has shown a real interest carry a hefty price tag in the area of $40K per year. At this time, she is interested in international relations, political science and linguistics. I say "at this time" because she's 16. Who really knows at the age of 16 or 18 what they really want to do with the rest of their lives? She plans to attend law school after graduating college. In my heart, I am determined that she will attend school wherever she wants no matter what it takes! In my head, I have to be more realistic. We will continue to shop colleges and encourage her to apply to any and all that interest her. We're keeping our fingers crossed that she may possibly be offered some scholarships. Her PSAT scores were good (75V, 65M, 73W, selection index 213) and her guidance counselor told us we would find out in September if she is a national semifinalist. </p>
<p>This board has been so very informative. Honestly, it has scared me at times, too, in that I am realizing just how competitive the college thing has become. I don't remember it being that way when I was younger. So far, D has visited Rhodes, Emory, Sewanee, and her father and my alma mater, Western Kentucky University. She has been encouraged by the admissions rep from UT to apply to their honors program as they would match the $4,000 per year that she would get through the state lottery. Her interest in Rhodes and Emory is very strong. I would be very interested to hear from some of you parents in similar situations. How do people afford these schools? A second mortgage?</p>
<p>The way it works in my family is that all the kids in my generation (i.e. my brother, me, and our cousins) get a significant amount of money on our 18th birthdays, and the idea is that we pay for university out of that, the threat being that if we go into debt we don't get bailed out - the amount of money being theoretically enough to last us throughout college and a bit beyond. This works out great for me, because it gives me freedom to do what I want - and encourages me to learn money-management skills early!</p>
<p>coureur, you put it beautifully.</p>
<p>My mom and dad gave me an incredible education. My thank you to them is to do the same for their grandchildren. (And the kids' thank you to me will be to do the same for MY grandchildren!)</p>
<p>curmudgeon,</p>
<p>Your dad's story moved me very much. No wonder you are such a devoted father; you learned from a master.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, what a beautiful story. Your father may not have been the most educated man, but he was very wise and you obviously learned much from him.</p>
<p>I don't know that I owe my kids a college education...but I will do everything I can to prepare them to take advantage of one, if they are inclined to go. The type & cost of institution will have to be determined at a later date depending on our finances/savings & their academic performance, etc.</p>
<p>My father was one of nine children in which only the oldest was able to attend college & also law school. Dad went to university for a year & was unable to afford to continue. But he always supported his children in their educational pursuits - he paid for Catholic grade schools & private high schools for all of us & IF we wanted to go to college, he & mom would do what they could to help any of us. But that help would have a $$ limit owing to the size of our family.</p>
<p>All of my brothers & sisters knew this was the case, but not everyone took advantage of it. Some did not focus much in high school & consequently had no interest in college. Dad was not going to pay for someone who didn't want to be there.</p>
<p>It was understood, however, that if you weren't attending college, you needed to get a job & pay rent. Even with that incentive, I had siblings who took the bus downtown & found jobs after high school graduation. I also had siblings who won a full-tuition scholarship, attended Ivy League university or won a Fullbright for grad study (not all the same person). So from this exp. I really see that my kids MUST take ownership of wanting to go to college, no matter how much I feel they need a degree or how much the economy dictates they need a degree.</p>
<p>I hope to do the same thing with my kids. Encourage them to attend college & help them as best as I am able financially. I want them to know we value education & what it can offer to them, but we don't owe it to them, esp. if they are not committed to seizing the opportunity & working hard for it.</p>
<p>irish, good point.</p>
<p>I would not pay for just anywhere-- nor if my kid was not buckling down. My "pay it forward" scenario presupposes a serious-minded student attending the best school possible.</p>
<p>We have always talked to our girls about "when you go to college" as just the next step out of HS. Do we "owe" them the $$ to pay for a top private university? No but we do "owe" them guidance, encouragement and the support that they will require to meet their goals. We can easily afford a local Cal State or UC program but the private schools are a reach. What we "owe" our Ds is to assist them in finding scholarships, grants and loans that will help them to attend school. They know that if that means 2 years at the local community college before transfering to another school that would be fine. As the acceptance letters are now arriving for our older D she is weighing the pros/cons of each based on $$ and program. Her BFA will just be her 1st degree so there is a lot to consider re: loans.
WE OWE IT TO HER TO HELP HER MAKE WISE CHOICES!</p>
<p>"other expensive tutoring agencies profit because so many parents are buying into this idea that our <em>kids</em> owe us an education more than they owe it to themselves, and the peace and harmony of the family depend on it.</p>
<p>I say it again, they owe it to themselves."</p>
<p>Sluggbugg, I agree, they absolutely DO owe it to themselves. A commitment to his/her own education is positively prerequisite for any student's academic success. In the case of CC student posters and the offspring of CC parents, that commitment is almost certainly a given. The question is, what are the obligations of us parents whose kids have demonstrated a commitment to their own education? In my own case, I feel that I owe it to my children to help prepare them for successful adulthood in everyway practical. Given the fact that I declined to use birth control and decided against abortion, I brought them into the world, thereby agreeing to take full moral and financial responsibility for them. The older they get, the more that responsibility shifts from me to them. Raising children is all about preparing them to become full adults, and contributing members of the world community. I suppose every parent has to determine in their own heart when the job is, "finished". To me, a college education is just the last piece of the puzzle. Everything we do, every example we set, every moral value and life lesson we endevour to instill brings them to the point of being adults, to the point of us being able to declare our job "finished".</p>
<p>Kirmum wrote:
[quote]
The interesting thing is that while few here feel they "owe" an education (and owe really is an ugly way to look at it) the Government assumes that we do owe our kids. Is it wrong that a parent contribution is a key element of financial aid?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Now you are asking whether the federal government "owes" your children a college education. The FAFSA system isn't saying that the parents "owe" anything, they are just saying that they expect the parents to kick in their share before the government will subsidize loans or provide PELL grants to young adults in the 18-24 age bracket.</p>
<p>Wow, this thread is really rolling. Terrific tension here!!!!</p>
<p>I like the Canadian approach - instead of grants like the Pell, they offer a college savings plan. For every dollar put into a special education account, the Federal government matches that amount. The amount matched is higher for lower income families. There is a limit on how much can be matched. Student loans are also available based on need.</p>
<p>I kind of like this approach because it encourages families to have a vested interest in their children's college education from a very young age. It rewards families who make education a priority. I guess you could say that the Canadian government is sending the message that parents DO owe a certain amount of planning and preparation to their children.</p>
<p>Splashmom; First of all if you daughter got a</p>
<p>Splashmom; here I go again with the double posts!(sorry) If your daughter got a 213 in Tenn. she is right up there for Merit Scholar Semi. If she is Merit Scholar Semi she will be offered many free rides at colleges she probably won't want to go to. (Been there, done that) . Some may come in the mail but most won't , you will have to look for them. This will mean long hours looking at policies and 'learning the ropes.' Then you will go see some of these colleges and your daughter won't want to go there. You will get a lot of money in merit aid from wherever your daugher wants to go. I hear Emory is generous. This may conceivably bring the cost down to a state college with any financial aid from the gov.. THe philosophy is, they try to make it 'managable'. So if you didn't have the money for a state u. anyway, you really aren't too much 'up the creek.' Your daughter got a fabulous score !</p>