<p>As long as we are able to, we will support our childrens' educations. In our case, we feel both kiddos have earned this support. They work hard, get good grades, are responsible, work and contribute as they can financially, and do NOT feel that they are entitled to this. They KNOW that their educations are expensive, and truly are appreciative. We are proud of their accomplishments, and they are proud as well. Do we feel we OWE them this...no. But are we glad we can provide it...yes.</p>
<p>Also, many parents who think that since they paid for their own college, their kids should. They forget that times are different. The economics have changed. The cost of education has gone up exponentially - the minimum wage hasn't. For example, thrity or so years ago it would cost about $1,500/yr in Texas. (200- tution and fees, 900 food and housing, 200 books and 300 spending money). The minimum wage was $1.50/hr. One could easily work 1,000 hrs/year or 20 hrs/wk and put him/herself through college.</p>
<p>Today, it costs about $16,000/year in Texas. The minimum wage is $5.50. Kid has to work almost 2,900 hrs to earn that much money.</p>
<p>Thank you, backhandgrip. I think I am coming to realize that the biggest part of our push for D to go instate is our desire to be near her. I know that is extremely selfish on our part. D lay in her bed last night and told me she's starting to feel stressed out. She's worrying about upcoming ACT and SAT tests, whether or not she'll get accepted to Governor's School, whether or not she'll make national semifinalist, etc. We just want to be supportive. I've told her numerous times that worrying won't change the outcome, although that's easier said than done. After reading Twinkle_Toes post in another thread, I realize that we need to allow D to spread her wings and go to the school that offers her the best education possible in the areas which she has shown an interest. If that takes her many miles away, that is something with which we (her father and I) will have to deal. Thanks all! I really do appreciate the opportunity to learn here!</p>
<p>:eek: Min wage in washington is $7.50 and I think you have to look pretty hard to find min wage. My daughter hasn't even been paid min wage. When she worked as a riding instructor it was at a residential camp, so they paid less than min if you divided it by hours, but at her summer camp jobs and at her current after school program job she gets paid abut $11 an hour- still not a lot but not bad.</p>
<p>i dont think parents owe their children higher education..</p>
<p>Although if they can afford it and if the child is willing to study hard then the parent shud go ahead and provide him with the best education.</p>
<p>it all depends on the broughtup of the child and the relation b/w the parent and the child.</p>
<p>A thought on earning: though my parents paid for my college education, I ALWAYS worked for my own money (starting about age 9-10, babysitting.) I bought my own clothes starting at age 13. I continued to work through college and when I moved off campus my salary went to apt & food. My D is also a worker and has had jobs consistently since about age 12. Perhps I'd feel different about the "pay it forward" concept if my kid was just lying around.</p>
<p>Somehow the balance feels right to me: kids work for all the small stuff and mom & dad float the big stuff to the extent that they can.</p>
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<p>The interesting thing is that while few here feel they "owe" an education (and owe really is an ugly way to look at it) the Government assumes that we do owe our kids. Is it wrong that a parent contribution is a key element of financial aid?</p>
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<p>This is a great question. I do not feel a family "owes" it's kids an upscale education. That said I do not think the schools or the government "owe" each child an education if some families choose not to fund college either. There are certainly many flaws to the current methodology to determine the EFC ... but as a goal ... determining what each family can reasonably pay given reasonable sacrifices seems to me to be the best approach. Implementing this goal is a bear. However the alternative is that each school or government make up the difference whenever a family can not or will not pay ... essentially move towards more socialized education.</p>
<p>Looking at this slightly differently. Schools live within budgets and each come to a conclusion of how many students and how much aid they will provide to their students. Each time a school supports a students whose parents could pay but choose not to pay (directly or indirectly) the school is not supporting a student whose family can not afford to pay (assuming the budget stays the same). That is what is driving my position bottom line, families can make their own decisions about financing college but they should face the consequences of those decisions .... other students and families should not. By the way a similar argument can be made against merit scholarships and athletic scholarships ... every dollar going to merit aid or an athletic scholarship is less money going to the needier students. Personally, while not as good for some individuals, I believe the IVYies apporach to aid is the best for society as a whole ... each schools budget for aid is allowing more students to attend then any other system I have seen proposed (short of socialized education). Now all we need to do is greatly improve the process for determining EFCs.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity4, I know you weren't speaking to this but I wanted to raise a point I think sometimes gets overlooked.We hear a lot about the unfairness of college financial aid because some live in high cost of living areas, or areas where homes shoot up in "value" at ridiculous rates and the formulas are national. Many times I agree. At the same time $11.00 an hour is considered a perfectly acceptable wage to pay a family breadwinner in Central Texas and many ,many adults earn substantially less for doing hard and thankless work. I have had occasion to speak with an equipment delivery driver, a technician in a dental lab, and an assembly line production worker this week about their earnings. All coincidentally were at the $11.00 mark after years in their job, as starting salaries are much lower. All three would not qualify for Parent Plus loans due to credit situations, some current -some in the past but still haunting them. The homes of the two that owned their own homes were valued at $18,000 and $40,000. All were parents. A low cost of living doesn't necessarily mean that we have it any better out here in the sticks.</p>
<p>my brother isn't paying anything for his kids unless they attend a 4 year school
So his son, who is a firefighter ( and who began his career in high school) is working two jobs and attending community college program for firefighting.( he is finishing up community college prgram and is hoping to get into specialized prgram at WSU)</p>
<p>His daughter wants to attend a two year nursing program but my brother is talking her into attending his local university ( indiana) and studying there- something about free tuition for residents/military? He is also pressuring her to try for medical school instead of nursing. THis is from someone who mved to Indiana almost 4 years ago because his company promised to pay for his graduate work at Notre Dame. He hasn't even taken his GRE! @@</p>
<p>We will pay the EFC whatever it is, but I am sure glad my kids are 8 years apart!</p>
<p>3togo,</p>
<p>I hear you, but the merit & athletic scholarships do two things: draw highest caliber students (merit) and promote alumni giving (prestige stats/winning teams.)</p>
<p>So in a convoluted way these scholarships also contribute to shoring up the school's bottom line.</p>
<p>Simba, you wrote,</p>
<p>*Also, many parents who think that since they paid for their own college, their kids should. They forget that times are different. The economics have changed. The cost of education has gone up exponentially - the minimum wage hasn't. For example, thrity or so years ago it would cost about $1,500/yr in Texas. (200- tution and fees, 900 food and housing, 200 books and 300 spending money). *</p>
<p>That is where the gray area comes into play. While it is nice to have the "full college experience" living in the dorms, all that campus likes brings, that is really more of a luxury vs. a necessity. While you definitely lose the social connections to the school, at the end of the day, if you attend classes, pass your courses, you will still a degree no matter if you lived on or off campus.</p>
<p>As one of those who paid their way through college, I worked a full time job during the day and attended school at night as a commuter student, paid out of my own pocket because I worked for a job that did not have benefits. There are also plenty of young people working in menial jobs and attending college (some through no fault of their own) and making it work, because everything really comes down to a question of worth- if you really want something and its important to you, you will find a way to make it happen.</p>
<p>In my current life I work for a company that offers full 100% tuition reimbursement for any full time enployee, no matter what capacity you work in and the benefit is avaialble beginning your first day on the job. I also coordinate college programs everything from partnerships with other schools wher our employees would attend and the company would be direct billied for tuition to bridge programs for students that have never been to college and may need remediation with professors coming to the workplace to hold classes.</p>
<p>I do agree that our children have to take ownership, responsibility and accountability for the lives that they want to live. While we love them dearly, we can't thake them through life by the hand so they do owe it to them selves to make the decision as to whether or not it is important to them to pursue Higher Ed.</p>
<p>In today's NJ Star Ledger, it said in a recent poll one third of parents are choosing to fund their own retirement instead of saving for their children's college education; They figure their kid has the option of getting financial/merit aid for college and they, the parents, won't have any options for others funding their retirement because company pensions are disappearing and social security may also disappear. 46 % are trying to fund college and retirement both. Assume the other 20% aren't saving at all. I just mailed it to my son (might as well remind him what a nice set of parents he's got as we are paying full tuition) so can't remember exact name of the poll.</p>
<p>I guess few believe that every generation will help the other. Many years ago I bought my parents a house. They now have so much equity in it that they can contribute to their grandchildren's education. And all jokes aside, those we have educated well should help parents if they are in the position later. Everyone gets what they need when they need it in the best cases.</p>
<p>Yes, I believe we do. If parents, *talk the talk <a href="%C2%93go%20to%20school%C2%97study%20hard%C2%97get%20good%20grades%C2%94">/i</a>, then we must *walk the walk <a href="save%20and%20pay">/i</a>.</p>
<p>1 down, 1 to go:
We consulted a financial specialist (in fact several) and were told that we needed to put saving for our retirement ahead of paying for our kids' college. Apparently, we could borrow from our retirement savings for our kids' tuition (we would be paying interest to ourselves). I suppose the principle is the same as the airline drill about putting on the oxygen mask on your face before helping your child.</p>
<p>marite lol "oxygen mask".... so true!</p>
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<blockquote> <p>We consulted a financial specialist (in fact several) and were told that we needed to put saving for our retirement ahead of paying for our kids' college>></p> </blockquote>
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<p>Same here. We were told to put the maximum amounts into our retirement savings. The idea was that IF we needed to cut back on our contributions while our kiddos were in college, there would be a nice nest egg left there earning interest. That is what we did. We will have to cut back on retirement contributions the year both kiddos are in college (unless we win the lottery...there's always hope!). In the meantime, I'll give you an investment banker's advice to us "no matter how much you save, you won't have enough to pay college expenses". AND he was right.</p>
<p>We actually did save enough to pay college expenses. But that's because we've only had about eight years of relatively high income: the four years before kid one started school, and the four years she was in school. During that time, we lived like H ws still a resident rather than full-fledged pediatrician. Now he's cut back, looking to change direction, but kid two's college is in the bank, and we're still young (kinda). We'll figure out the rest later.</p>
<p>Do we owe it? I guess not. Is there anything we'd rather do with it? Well, no.</p>
<p>I think a parent does owe a college education to their children. It is part of their education and without it they will struggle through life. With that said, I do not think a parent owes their child an education at an elite school. Many cannot afford an expensive school. Even if all they can afford or want to afford is a $3,000 a year state school, then that is fine. But the kids deserve something. Luckily I have parents that wanted me to go to an Ivy League school and I could not be more grateful.</p>
<p>Yes, we feel that we OWE a college education to our children - at least through their undergrad phase.</p>
<p>It is not something that we even need to contemplate.</p>
<p>Short of getting horrendously into debt, we would also feel an obligation to pay for the best college where they can obtain admission. I hasten to add that the best college does not necessarily equate to the most expensive college.</p>
<p>They in turn, have an obligation to make a conscientious and studious effort while they are at college to utilize the opportunity that is being given them.</p>
<p>My parents were provided a good education by their parents and they in turn did the same for us. We will do the same for our kids and hope that our offspring would feel that they owe the same to their children.</p>